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  #21  
Old 03/01/12, 09:22 AM
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2,375
I had 3 ewes on about an acre and a half, for three years and they did fine with only a tiny amount of grain to keep them coming up when they saw us. I split the field up into three sections and rotated them through one section every week. But it was good grass and we had good rains. Last year, in the drought, I had to feed grain and grass hay almost all year.

On an acre, I sure doubt you would manage to feed more than a couple or so sheep, particularly if they are milk sheep. They need more protein, calcium and calories than meat breeds.

Alice is right - it is not grain that provides calcium in the diet - you will need to supplement it in the form of alfalfa hay, pellets or calcium top dressing (and if you are top dressing, you will need to be feeding a palatable grain to dress it onto)

Mary
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  #22  
Old 03/02/12, 12:26 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ont Canada
Posts: 92
I'm up in Northern Canada and our pastures are covered with 6 feet of snow from november till march and then when all that melts its too wet to put anything out execpt ducks! lol till May! we bank on feeding strictly hay for 6 months of the year. right now we have 33 sheep (and 1 mini donkey) on 7 acres and rotate but that gets tight by the end of the year.
p.s major consideration is the fact that your 4-8 sheep may all end up having quads which could mean 32 lambs!!!!! very unlikely but still .....
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  #23  
Old 03/02/12, 03:24 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: MI
Posts: 384
Well, I say 2-8 because there wil be 2 ewes in the beginning. They could each have 3-4 lambs. No lambs will be kept. Either all eaten or sold for the winter. So, the hay in the winter only has to feed 2. Pasture will have to feed up to 8, but obviously they won't all be full-sized all year, nor all milking...

We are in mid michigan. We had snow coverage in some of dec, some of jan, some of feb this year. Obviously we will not have tons of grass in nov or march, either though, but, again, only 2 grazers in that time.

I am not fundamentally against hay, it is just more expensive than "free", so... I do believe commercial grain is poison, so we want to avoid that, but having nursed for over 10 years now I definitely understand the increased caloric and nutrient needs of a miller. I planned to post separately on finding a good soy, corn, and wheat free grain combo we can mix ourselves.

Thanks for all th ehonesty. It is something we really have to consider hard in the next couple of months while looking for the right house.
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  #24  
Old 03/02/12, 07:15 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,262
Cows and horses prefer friends. Cows and horses don't necessarily get along. We're in IL and have two horses on somewhere around five acres. I'm not sure exactly how big our pastures are because we have 27 acres in total. They've torn the pastures up something awful. If you have a horse and the other animals I think you'll need a lot more room than a couple acres.

We decided to buy half a beef from our neighbor. He would help us with our first feeder calf if we wished but he made a really good point. Cows like to be around other cows. Do any of your neighbors have cows? If so, yours might just like to take a neighborhood walk.

You get a lot more snow and cold weather up there than we do here.

Are you talking about a 1 acre pasture or a 1 acre lot that contains the house and animal shelter?
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  #25  
Old 03/03/12, 07:18 AM
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Location: Kentucky
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No way can you do all that on < 1 acre.....
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  #26  
Old 03/03/12, 11:28 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Indiana
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I don't think you have enough land unless you're willing to buy a fair amount of hay. A few head of a really small, thrifty breed like Shetlands could live unsupplemented on just an acre while grass is still growing, but I imagine larger milking breeds would require more to meed their nutritional needs. Also, the lambs will start grazing pretty young and by the end of summer you wouldn't have much grass left, especially if your pasture dries up in heat/drought as happens here.
I keep (grass-fed) Shetlands on about 2 acres (with house) but always have to buy hay for winter which I sometimes have to start feeding in early fall if it's been a particularly dry summer. With such a small area, I have to be careful about parasite buildup (worms), too.
We also keep chickens and sometimes turkeys, but there's no way I'd consider adding large livestock like a cow or horse on such a small property.
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  #27  
Old 03/03/12, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabbyraja View Post

But, regardless, I wanted to get a good idea for exactly how much land we'd need if we got our "dream place", to have 1-2 Highland's, 2-8 sheep/lambs, and a horse.
About 10 acres, assuming you buy hay to feed for 6? months of the year. Living in Michigan you will need to feed a lot of hay. Even if there is grass under the deep snow that does not mean that the livestock can get at it.

I would think that 2 dairy sheep would be about right to graze a short acre, but again you will have to feed in the winter.
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  #28  
Old 03/03/12, 01:44 PM
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We're in mid MI too, sorry but there's just no way you will be able to pull off what you want to without buying hay, even on 5 acres.

Quote:
We are in mid michigan. We had snow coverage in some of dec, some of jan, some of feb this year. Obviously we will not have tons of grass in nov or march, either though, but, again, only 2 grazers in that time.
You will have NO grass from at the latest October to the earliest mid April and precious little in a dry summer. Sorry to be harsh, but that's just how it is in Michigan.
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Last edited by Tiempo; 03/03/12 at 01:50 PM.
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  #29  
Old 03/03/12, 02:24 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: N.W. Illinois
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I sent you a PM, I don't think you are reading the USDA direct loan rules or areas right!

PM me back and let me know if I can help you a bit more!

Annie
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  #30  
Old 03/03/12, 04:34 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
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Originally Posted by GammyAnnie View Post
I sent you a PM, I don't think you are reading the USDA direct loan rules or areas right!

PM me back and let me know if I can help you a bit more!

Annie
We looked at a loan like that. They're available mostly for small town loans in certain places and have pretty strict income guidelines.
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  #31  
Old 03/04/12, 08:38 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: N.W. Illinois
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Originally Posted by Joshie View Post
We looked at a loan like that. They're available mostly for small town loans in certain places and have pretty strict income guidelines.
I am well aware of that as my daughter just bought a house and land on a USDA direct loan.

Annie
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  #32  
Old 03/05/12, 11:12 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: MI
Posts: 384
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Originally Posted by Maura View Post
Be careful about giving grain. Modern breeds may be bred to do well on grain, but old breeds may do very poorly. My sheep are obese on grass, I only use oats as a bribe. I have friends with modern breeds and they always supplement the grass/hay with grain.
Maura, what breed do you use? I'm trying to figure out which breeds do best on grass (and/or hay) only, and can produce milk for my family of 8.
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  #33  
Old 03/05/12, 11:32 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: MI
Posts: 384
The house we've offered on (yeah, that was quick) has only a little over an acre, including the house. We need a little for gardening and a trampoline and swingset, so the animals are only getting about 1/2-3/4 acres. However, there are 3 acres of unused perfectly good pasture-like land behind us that may belong to the neighbor and that we may be able to work out on a lease. Fingers crossed. But I'm also trying to explore creative options, such as short daytime trips out to that land, and the front yard, and walks down the road, etc, to get more free food into them. Please feel free to give me input on these options/thoughts as well.

I understand I'm doing hay in the winter. There was never a question about that. They don't milk in the winter anyway, and you butcher before winter for everybody else. That's not a problem, it's the rest of the yr I'd rather it be free and healthier milk/meat. So, I've given up on the other animals. But I'm still holding out hope that a couple 2 or 3 sheep could graze 1/2-3/4 of an acre most of the year, not during the driest parts. Maybe the more "browsy" heritage breeds? I just read Icelandic are more like goats in that regard. Tell me more about Shetlands, if you don't mind?

I'm thinking I might be better off with a couple of mini breed goats at first, though I'm really trying to avoid goats again, if possible. NDs would work, and I'd be ok milking them. We're used to not having milk at all because the kids are allergic, and only recently did we find sheep milk worked ok for them, so not getting a great output is fine. It's butter I'd really like to do with the sheep milk (centrifuged, obviously), but not sure if I can get enough...
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  #34  
Old 03/06/12, 12:00 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: MI
Posts: 384
LOVE that polyface farm idea, thank you! So, I could utilize my entire almost-an-acre with portable electric netting. I can move the sheep each 1-2 days (possibly even off and onto neighbor's area) and chase them with the chickens, also inside electric netting. Does this sound doable, guys? I can set up the electric netting on a solar charger and do the whole thing for around $500-1000. That sounds like a total winner to me. Tell me if I'm missing something... Oh, how much time do sheep have to off of an area in order for it to be safe/preferable to go back on it? That will probably determine if I can keep this thing going.

Last edited by gabbyraja; 03/06/12 at 12:02 AM.
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  #35  
Old 03/06/12, 07:41 AM
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Location: Ohio Valley (Southern Ohio)
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We had an entire homestead on 3/4 of an acre in VT, years ago. We had a small pasture where we raised 3 sheep, and a beef calf every year. We also had a chicken coop, and a small hog pen. However, we fed grain to our livestock. You can probably buy grain locally, direct from the farmer if you don't trust the commercial stuff. Even scratch grains is better than no grains. Our local feed mill grinds and mixes a special sheep mix for us. It only costs about $90.00 for 500 lbs. That would last 2 or 3 sheep a very long time. Remember, nutrition is one of the biggest issues affecting lamb health as well as milk production. I know a lot of people say that grains aren't natural for livestock to eat. That's just hogwash! Grass IS a grain. Deer love to clean up corn fields, soybean fields, etc. It is a natural feed for livestock.
If you are currently paying 8 dollars a gallon for sheep milk, I imagine you'd be able to buy hay for your sheep for as much or even less than you spend now on milk.
If your family doesn't really like lamb, and you want to take the milk for your own use, why not just sell the bottle lamb. Around here a week old bottle lamb sells for $50.00 or more, depending on the breed. That would also count toward your hay/grain costs.
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