Cistern vs. Well.... Pros and Cons

Do believe that the water rights are owned by individuals... it's just the State that adjudicates those rights... Without the State (and the agencies that enforce those rights), someone upstream without any rights at all could dewater the stream/river, and you'd be SOL.

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Thanks FarmerDale
You wrote:"Now here is the part that may interest you most. I am a strong believer in the fact that the unthinkable to others, the impossibility to some, can actually be overcome."

I totally agree and just add that not only can "impossibilities" be overcome, they can be part of the reason for your success. Most others run away, leaving a land of opportunity because it wasn't the garden of eden they envisioned and they didn't see the gold in the rough.

Keep your mind open and focus on your dreams
gary

People drive the trans canada highway across southern Saskatchewan, where there is nary a tree, nary a hill, and nary rainfall. They miss the beauty, the land to the north of potential, the hills, the lakes, the forests, the best soils, the green highlands, the wilderness. And they let this southern perception guide their entire life about what they think of this province. And in some ways, this is excellent, as it leaves the potential to people like me!!!

In some ways though, it leaves our potential untapped, underutilized. It is a toss up!

Aw thanks guys for all the hope and support! That's right! I feel like when others are telling me no, I want to find away to make it work!

I'm just researching, researching and researching!

And I'm excited about it!

And yes we were planning a little trip out West this March just to look for land...so hopefully we'll find something that suits our needs....

But still learning about water------ becuase duh we need water, and lot's of it.

Why don't you talk to the people that are doing something similar or like you want to do? Find out how they got around the obstacles??

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Be a fountain, not a drain!

^()^
http://tubbsfarmstead.com/

Good luck to you. The water rights issues are one of the biggest reasons we left CO for MO.

We had bought-in soil in raised garden beds, mulched heavily and still had to water our veggies twice a day. Colorado is incredibly dry and good land within a reasonable driving distance to any of the more populated areas (if you need to work off the farm) is incredibly expensive.

Colorado is so beautiful though.. I miss those mountains!

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“You may choose to look the other way but you can never say again that you did not know.”

One of my dreams was to build a greenhouse on my mtn property, and use some of the land for a permaculture area. I considered using the greenhouse and large garden (~2 acres) to provide fresh stuff to the classy restaurants in the 3 nearby towns (each about 25 miles away).

I have a well, but not surface water rights. Surface water rights is primarily related to taking water from streams, rivers, or lakes. Collecting rainwater is part of that, but they do not police that aspect and using a roof runoff to fill a cistern may be overlooked.

My well has an agricultural designation, which allows me to use as much as I need.

Due to KA suing CO because the Arkansas River supply was depleted by drilling so many wells in it's aquafer, CO lost. So, a new well in Fremont Cty requires 45 acres. Zoning for plumbing and electrical are state controlled, and wells must be registered with the state water board. Each county has it's own set of rules.

Due to my age, the cost of gasoline, et al, I decided not to follow that dream. I still want a greenhouse and permaculture environment, though.

March is a bit early to travel the state. You don't have much control over your schedule, and the weather can be problematic without warning. Even mid May can have heavy snowfall in high country areas. You must cross mtn passes.

As I drive to my property I see many For Sale signs. It takes a lot of effort to find those properties on line. Some are for sale by owner. I suggest you purchase prior to your trip a state recreational atlas. It is a 90 page set of maps that go down to foot trail detail. It will help you navigate a lot.

gary

More comments related to your search and my experience:

My property is not down in a valley where there are farms, but about 5 miles away partway up a mountain range.
I don't have a stream or lake.
My "neighborhood" has 2.5 acre plots. Some of my neighbors have 1 plot. The largest property looks to be about 10 plots. Many have wells.
Outside my neighborhood are some much larger properties.
I am on the north edge of my neighborhood. My northern neighbors are in a different neighborhood. They must have at least 40 acres.
You will find many places for sale that have existing wells.
Have the well and the water tested before you buy.
Many of the places for sale are vacation homes. Some are great bargains in terrain that may fit your dream.

I am a CO native. I have been an avid gardener forever. I have had raised boxes for decades and never watered every day, let alone twice a day. I visited the garden every day and watered something that needed it, but it did not take as much water as others have experienced. I guess it depends on what you grow.

good luck

Although it's my favorite state to vacation in and I feel strongly that the good Lord knew what He was doin when it came to creating that fine place, when it comes to buying land in CO and water you should "just say NO!". I'm serious. I had a chance last summer on one of my many trips to CO to sit at a KOA one nice summer evening and listen to the whoas of the park owner and how he was being sued by the great state of CO and the city of Denver for catching rain water off his roof.

If you ever pay special attention to those cities (especially in the southwestern part of the state) that have irrigation canals make sure to notice they run straight through some small parcels of land without having a single valve or diversion gate to give water to the land owner. This is because of what Texican mentioned above. If your ancestors sold their "water rights" off years ago, they're gone. It doesn't matter how badly you need it, they're gone. You'd think a place with that much snowmelt would have enough water for everyone. (and they would, if they weren't selling it to places like Southern California!)

In Oklahoma we deal with those issues over crude oil and natural gas. We have attorneys that wait like vultures to sue or file suit over the smallest mineral rights issue. In Colorado, they have "water attorneys" that do the same thing.

Make sure you have water secured in an easy to get fashion before buying land in CO. Otherwise, someone will say, "I told you so" when you fail miserably.

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Francismilker

"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much" James 5:16

We use these sites for ideas for Water issues:

http://www.oasisdesign.net/index.htm

http://greywateraction.org/

http://www.harvestingrainwater.com/

We have two cisterns: One is filled by gravity flow from a small slow spring. Cistern #1 holds about 1100 gallons water. Then....we pump the water uphill to Cistern #2 which also holds about 1100 gallons water. The spring is too slow to fill the tanks fast - it takes over night to fill up about 800 gallons but since we have two tanks. we never use up all the water.

We used 2 brand new cement septic tanks for the below-ground cisterns. We left the tops exposed so we can get to the lids as needed and clean out the tanks. Also - on the Cistern #2 (which is right in front of the house) we set a cheap hand-pump called a Pitcher pump on the tank. The Pitcher pump is on top of a wood table, which sets on top of the cistern - and we just pump water from there if the power goes out.

We also have 2 above ground plastic type tanks from Tractor Supply. They hold rain water. We use it for "fire emergency" which we are thankful we have not had to use. Otherwise, we let it flow, gravity, to another garden as needed.

Good luck - get lots of ideas and read up before making a final choice. Then - try to have back up systems. We have a deep well but at times, the pump will decide to mess up and thus we have the spring water. If something happened to it - we have the Rain Water. I am thankful we have the three water options.

Good luck.

PS We also have a way to hook up the rain gutters to the below-ground Cistern #2 "just in case" and it is hidden from sight. Around here it is illegal to harvest Rain Water for household use. So - currently we do not have the Rain Water barrels (we hold 2,000 gallons of Rain Water at a time in two tanks) hooked to any household system, however, we can use that option if needed. The rain gutters can be diverted in two places to fill up the Cistern. Then...inside the house we have a particle filter system plus a UV filter system to clean the water. If the power was out, then all we would have to do is pump the water out of the cistern using the hand pump and just boil it.

Let us all know when you are going to visit. Those of us who live here can help you understand what we do to garden and you can see some of the reality of Colorado. It's not bad, just different. And yes, I did have to tweak my dreams a bit when we moved here, but I have been extremely happy with the outcome and can see a way forward. You do have many options, it just may not feel like it right now. Colorado has a big learning curve,


Tilly

Thanks everyone for all the kind and honest opinions! Thankfully we have not yet bought the land, we are still in the researching phase now. Though we'd like to move quickly as soon as we figure it all out, we are paying for our land in cash and we'd like land not to start to rise again with the houses now that everyting has bottomed out.

We figured, we are young and while we are trying to learn and research everything we can in regards to land/water/small scale farming, if it didn't work out after we bought the land we could always re-sell years done the road or maybe even retire there if we save more money to buy water rights.

I truely appreciate all the responses, very interesting.

We will be making the trip out there hopefully next month-ish, by then we will have properties lined up to be looked at... and of course nothing will be final until we have in writing, the sale will be contingient on a well for xyz use.

Once I know the areas we'll be looking in, we could all have a CO homesteading meet up if your in the area and we can drink coffee and talk about how water water is everywhere and there's not a drop to drink!