Cistern vs. Well.... Pros and Cons

I haul bulk water for a living here in Ontario. We don't have water rights issues here so I know nothing about that but, strictly on a logistical level, you would have to figure out the cost of drilling a well versus the cost of hauling water in long term. Drilled wells here are very expensive but are probably cheaper in the long term if you plan on being there for many years. You could get a cistern that would be filled by the well and if the well went dry, as wells can to do from time to time, depending on the season, you could get water trucked in. You would also need to check into the laws regarding plumbing a cistern into the house if you intend to use it for personal use. We can do that here but it has to be on a separate system that runs only to the toilet and laundry, if I recall correctly.

I believe Colorado gets winters like we do here (not this one, thank goodness!) but, even though your water needs would be a lot less in the winter, you would need to keep a close eye on your cistern and coordinate deliveries with the weather. There are times that we can't get into places due to the snow and if you're out of water, you're out of luck.

I have both. I like having the options and both are accessible by bucket and rope if the power goes out. Just another prep, I guess. Of course, I know where to get water if I need it...

Where are you looking in Colorado? My dad's parents lived in Montrose and Olathe. In Montrose the ground was so sandy and the climate so dry they couldn't even grow grass. Yes there were watering restrictions for everyone except the big truck farms and the city which had lovely green grass and water thirsty flowers down the median in the middle of town which was watered daily during the hottest part of the day. Even if you have a creek running through your property you are not allowed to use so much that is would restrict the flow of water to the people downstream.

You can install a grey water irrigation system, unless those are illegal (which they are in some areas). There's no reason you shouldn't be able to re-use your household waste water to water crops. But even then in some parts of Colorado a bad hot dry year would wipe out even established plantings unless you are growing cactus. A few years of drought can wipe out old cactus plants.

In extreme climates like Colorado, Arizona, Alaska and Florida you just have go with the flow. Some crops will do well, others won't. Even then, there are areas where not much of anything will grow.

Drilling a well is out of the question as No Water Rights.
You can only drill your own well IF you have water rights to do so. That is for those States that have that kind of law, as Water RIghts.

I just figured if the OP bought a property with water rights, if that's possible. We don't have these issues here so I"m having a hard time wrapping my head around it. I realize different climates have different issues.

Colorado is beautiful, rich in history and I have family there. You couldn't drag me there mostly because of the government and water issues. If family is that importatn to you look for something for income. Same goes for other states mentioned. I have relaitives in AZ and have lived in NM. No thanks.

I think you should listen to what people are saying. It's one thing to raise a garden and another to try to make a profit on what you grow. My family tried to farm in Conejo County several generations ago - when they didn't have to worry about water rights - they didn't make it. The land was too dry, not enough rain, etc. My DD lived on some islands off the west coast of Africa for a year. They depended on a truck to put water in a tank on the top of their apartment. Never once did the truck show up. She used a quart bottle of water (1 bottle) to wash her hair and bathe. She knew it would only be a year for her, but the people that lived their all the time? Not sure I'd want to count on someone else delivering my water in an area without much water.

Grrrrr! This is so frusterating! I just got off the phone with a realtor, about some land I saw, and I was just telling her our story what we wanted and needed in land with water/well rights ect. And she said "Well you coul irrigate city water if you lived near a city such as xyz" I'm like really, um no, this women does not know what she's taking about, not to mention the price of irrigating an acre of land in a hot dry climate using CITY WATER? ---? Anyways, I'm young and hell bent determinded now that so many people say it can't be done!

NO, seriously though, I am determined to at least figure this out, if only that it will for sure not work out/cost too much/is too risky.....

First in time, first in line. If your ancestors 160 years ago had moved into CO and homesteaded or ranched, they'd have water rights.

You can buy land, with water rights..... but the water rights are usually wayyyyy more valuable than the dirt. Folks with water rights can sell those rights to far off Denver and other areas, for millions, and keep the dirt... no one cares about the 'dirt'.

You may have your heart set on CO... but your mind should be telling you you ought to be looking at a wetter (most of the non mountainous part of the state is classified as arid.... close to desert > no reliable rainfall) more ag friendly state.

If you are determined, be prepared to buy those water rights you seek... if you can find a fool to part with them. Like mineral rights, the water rights can be separated from the surface estate, and the value far exceeds that of the surface. Be determined, and prepare to have a couple hundred K for those rights...

good luck...

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Unfortunately, she does know what she's talking about... if you want a flower garden, or a "raised bed" garden, say 4'x12' or so, you could irrigate. What your wanting to do simply isn't done, because of the region.... water is precious, worth wayyyy more for drinking, than for farming.

I'd recommend googling Farm and Ranch properties in the mountain west... most all ranches come with water rights... most of the ones I've seen start out (for small ranches) around 800k, the good ones are in the 10 - 30 Million range.

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Here's something to think about when considering hauling irrigation water.

It takes a little over 27,000 gallons to put 1 inch of water on one acre.

Many crops need that much per week to thrive

The largest tanker trucks will hold around 9000 gallons, so you'd need about 3 of those per week

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Yep the farmers that came to CO in the first place tried and starved to death. Those that came afterwards knew that you can't farm with out irrigation. That is why the Water boards were introduced to keep you from using all the water you want. Now if you have plenty of money you can truck water in and be fine. But if you are not loaded you can't do it. Look at the people that came first and you will see that it can be done but not feasible. I am sure that most people think that water is a right and you can have all you want but in CO it is restricted unless you want to haul it in. Most of the wells in CO are low yelling about 2 gallon per hour and are deep in the first place.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

My husband is from CO and we lived there for many years. It is not water friendly. We lived on the Western Slope and the only way I could grow a garden in my back yard is with irrigation water. In our area we had about 350 days of sunshine a year. We could go 3-4 months (in summer) with no rainfall and temps could reach 105.

Our valley is known for its fruit orchards and vineyards. We have 2 rivers that converge there (Colorado and the Gunnison). The only way it was accomplished was thru irrigation ditches. We paid $50 a year for our irrigation and the rights to it went with the house when we sold it. They fill them in April and empty them in October. You could use as much water as you wanted as long as it was there. Sometimes we had low pressure because everyone above us was using more water. Senior water rights are king!! Everyone else loses.

Not all places in CO use irrigation ditches and for what you are wanting to do I don't believe you will be able to do it, unless you are in an area that has them.

I understand about living in CO, the beauty of it and being near family (as you mentioned) and I dearly wish we still lived there (despite the water issues). We still have family there and, in fact, I will be going there in just a couple of weeks.

Good luck and (p.s. I sent you a pm a few days ago, I hope you got it and were able to read it, please let me know, if possible).

I applaud you for being determined. Determination. Alone won't get you what you want.

How much does it cost be have your crops certified as organic? If you do purchase a piece of property you should make sure it can be certified. Even if you don't use any chemicals you may not be able to call yourself organic.

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Moms don't look at things like normal people.
-----DD

Even here in Michigan, where we are blessed with accessible groundwater (and the Great Lakes!) not a areas are equal, and sometimes a well isn't possible. Either there isn't any water, or the water found is too salty to use. Ironically it's worse close to the lakeshore.

Many people use shallow crock wells for water, which is unsafe because the water is basically just surface water, and they run dry easily; or they have cisterns and storage tanks and pay to have water trucked in. That gets expensive fast.

I can't speak to the whole water right issue, though I would really hate to live in a state where the government owns the very rain that falls from heaven onto my roof. But it really sounds like you're trying to work against the land instead of with it.

Can you stay with relatives there for a while, and tour the other farms that are doing it? Ask questions, learn the lingo, consult the lawyers?

Maybe change your dream a little? Run a bed and breakfast? Open a photography studio? Look to your strengths and abilities, maybe you could live in CO without depending a a market garden for your living.

I've never been there but I understand it's breath-takingly beautiful. I hope you find a way to make it!

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I will say of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust." Psalm 91:2
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WW, I suggest you contact some of those "farms" you are so sure are farming small and producing and talk to THEM - get their backgrounds if possible and IF in reality they are even breaking even on costs, much less making any profit OR are they going in the hole every growing season and having to work off farm to pay household bills. We ARE telling you like it is, your choice to face the reality or try to bull your own desires through regardless of the facts of the matter. In this day and economy what you want to achieve most probably cannot be done in the area you desire to do it, no matter how much YOU think it MUST be possible unless, as mentioned, you have LOTS of dollars to spend initially and continually. Life ain't fair, guy, it IS real and you obviously do not like what we have to share with you, so be it. Good luck.

My daughter's fiancee's family owns a large organic farm in the San Luis Valley of Colorado, but they've owned it for four generations and they have water rights.

No I totally get you! I just want to find a way to make it work!

p.s. My name is Samantha I'm a 26yr old wannabe farmer, married to an awesome wannabe farmer husband and I have four little boys!

Nice to meet you all!

....I'm just trying to navigate this! I know farmers aren't in it for money, as we aren't. just a way to get by and do something you deeply believe in

Hi Samantha. Hey..I was in your shoes when I was in my 20's. I'm from back east (lived in Ohio too!) and sometimes you get kind of fixated on certain places in the west. We did the same thing.
You should check out other areas and not give up your dream because of a location. There are other places in the west that are just as beautiful as Colorado but don't have the same water difficulties.
Parts of Idaho, Oregon, Washington and Montana for starters.

I find it humorous to read the suggestions of those who do not live here in CO. It seems like most think it is a silly dream for you to move here and follow that dream. I like that. The less here, the more pristine it will stay.

While a lot of the comments have some accuracy, there are so many variables you cannot rely on that I find exceptions in many circumstances. I believe you can achieve what you want with a strategy.

I suggest you plan a trip rather than having conversations on the phone or links on the net. Visit many CO areas. Look for signage in addition to local real estate agents. Use your senses to feel which areas seem to fit your dream. Visit local restaurants and supply stores.

Make a list of desires. Score every place you visit - not just a check. Keep a diary of your impressions.

There are a lot of people that live here (not comparitively). We especially need people like you to supply us with things we need, even if we try to provide for ourselves.

A small mountain town restaurant(s) would love to have fresh produce. You may not need a truck to haul water at all. Waterfall in Denver is no indication of what you may find elsewhere in the state. It is good that members have alerted you to be careful regarding water rights. I see you taking that advice.

Now get out here for a serious shopping trip.
gary

I'm with you Gary. I am from along ways away, but I will share a little of what goes on up here, which may inspire hope to Samantha.

As Gary says, get out there, learn the land, learn the types of farming, befriend some farmers, and above all, do ALOT of driving around. And not just interstate driving, the main highway way: This can often leave one with a sense of non reality, in terms of what is available, what can be done. Get a good map, and get out there for 2 or 3 weeks. Learn. Ask questions. Drive around.

Now here is the part that may interest you most. I am a strong believer in the fact that the unthinkable to others, the impossibility to some, can actually be overcome. I farm up here at the northern edge of agriculture. As one of the "perks" of being a farmer, we get a couple of free (25 cent Subsidy! LOL) government publications that promote agriculture, and share REAL LIFE stories of many people entering the various sectors of the industry.

In every single issue, there are always stories that touch my heart, that are stories of overcoming pretty much impossible circumstances. There are those who leave the city to raise beef cattle, fighting their way, often nearly going bankrupt, yet persevering, and becoming beef growers. Some have quit grain farming to raise garlic. Some quit tobacco farming to raise mushrooms. Some quit fur farming to raise goats and process cheese right on their farms...

What I am saying, is that like these people, you can do what you need to do, whether it seems feasible, possible, or downright crazy to others. Often times, it takes ALOT of hours of hard labour, three jobs, begging bankers for money to get rolling. You are young enough to go for it! To me, as a young farmer, had I not taken chances in my career with borrowing, (there is such thing as good, business building debt, though many disagree!), trying new things, or cutting things fine in terms of timeliness due to working off the farm ridiculous hours, I would not have been able to be a farmer.

If you truly wish to, and need to farm in Colorado, I am positive you will find a way. It may not happen in 1 year, it may take 15, but if you plan, have goals, learn what people are doing, discover a niche that is needed, and importantly of course, find a way to have WATER (lol), you WILL SUCCEED!!!

Ask the guy who came from Europe who decided to raise sheep in a grain area, what others though of his ideas initially. (they thought he was insane!). Well he is now the smallest land based farmer around, but probably clears more money off his 2 000 ewes, than most of us large sized, small grains farmers make in an average year. In terms of NET at least.

Good luck, you are young. I say get out there, and go for it!!!