CDC:Raw milk much more likely to cause illness.

billooo2 · #81 02/26/12, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl

When a friend of yours has been paralyzed, possibly permanently, from Guillain-Barre after being sickened by raw milk, yeah, you tend to tell "anecdotal stories" all right.

.

I am a little puzzled.......I spent my career in the medical field and dealt with a few GB patients. The first was a 10 year old girl.

It has always been my understanding that GB is a paralysis that starts with the feet and gradually ascends up the body. The critical point is when it paralyzes the diapragm and the ribs. The patient can no longer breathe for themselves. At that point they are placed on the ventilator, and life support is provided. The "defining" aspect which earned the term, GB, is that the paralysis would gradually descend down the body.......they would be able to breathe on their own......and eventually regain all or almost all of their normal function. If it did not decend, then the diagnosis was changed..????

willow_girl · #82 02/26/12, 07:24 AM

Quote:

And the data to support that statement is .......?????

This could be very interesting.....if I remember correctly, the CDC said that Campylobacter was not even identified until the 1970''s.......feel free to correct me if I am wrong in that.

The fact that it wasn't identified doesn't mean it didn't exist. Many modern diseases went by different names in the old days and often were attributed to things like "bad air" in the absence of knowledge about viruses and bacteria.

Quote:

The symptoms of Campylobacter infections were described in 1886 in infants by Theodor Escherich.[10] These infections were named cholera infantum,[10] or summer complaint.[11] The genus was first discovered in 1963;[12] however, the organism was not isolated until 1972.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_complaint#History

And here's a fun page with a "list of diseases commonly cited in historic obituaries and death certificates and their present day equivalents" :

http://www.gabartow.org/MiscRecs/helpDiseases.shtml

haypoint · #83 02/26/12, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billooo2

I must have missed it. Could you help me out????.....could you point out where the CDC article says anything about cat milk????

Were you under the assumption that raw milk is the primary means of contracting Campylobacter????

Sure, I'll help you out. You were the one that asked if we should ban cats because they carry Camplobacter. That fact is not important to this discussion because we do not normally drink cat's milk. So, maybe you should leave you Campylobacter contaminated cat out of the illness from raw milk discussion. It seems to be confusing you.

oz in SC V2.0 · #84 02/26/12, 07:04 PM

But it is cats themselves that are the problem,not their milk.

haypoint · #85 02/26/12, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oz in SC V2.0

But it is cats themselves that are the problem,not their milk.

So why bring it up in a raw milk discussion?

billooo2 · #86 02/27/12, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

So why bring it up in a raw milk discussion?

Because people brought up Campylobacter. So, I checked the CDC web site to see if raw milk was the primary vector......it is not. Apparently cats are more frequently the source of contamination.

oz in SC V2.0 · #87 02/27/12, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Dr. Ganmaa Davaasambuu, Ph.D., and her colleagues specifically identified "milk from modern dairy farms" as the culprit, referring to large-scale confinement operations where cows are milked 300 days of the year, including while they are pregnant. Compared to raw milk from her native Mongolia, which is extracted only during the first six months after cows have already given birth, pasteurized factory milk was found to contain up to 33 times more estrone sulfate.

Evaluating data from all over the world, Dr. Davaasambuu and her colleagues identified a clear link between consumption of such high-hormone milk, and high rates of hormone-dependent cancers. In other words, contrary to what the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), and the conventional milk lobby would have you believe, processed milk from factory farms is not a health product, and is directly implicated in causing cancer.

"The milk we drink today is quite unlike the milk our ancestors were drinking" without apparent harm for 2,000 years, Dr. Davaasambuu is quoted as saying in the Harvard University Gazette. "The milk we drink today may not be nature's perfect food."

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035081_pa...#ixzz1naorZ2jO

haypoint · #88 02/27/12, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oz in SC V2.0

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035081_pa...#ixzz1naorZ2jO

So now we know that cats carry some of the same bacteria found in raw milk and now we are enlightened with information that milk from pregnant cows causes cancer. Well do tell.

Interesting that the guilt gets thrown at factory farms. Does that necter of the Gods, raw milk, only come from barren cows?

Any homesteaders dancing with the devil by milking pregnant cows?

oz in SC V2.0 · #89 02/27/12, 09:03 AM

Ganmaa Davaasambuu is a physician (Mongolia), a Ph.D. in environmental health (Japan), a fellow (Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study), and a working scientist (Harvard School of Public Health).

I can see where she is wrong,being such a hack.

haypoint · #90 02/27/12, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oz in SC V2.0

Ganmaa Davaasambuu is a physician (Mongolia), a Ph.D. in environmental health (Japan), a fellow (Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study), and a working scientist (Harvard School of Public Health).

I can see where she is wrong,being such a hack.

I don't know her. But the auther, Jonathan Benson, is a hack.

You left my questions unanswered.

http://www.manta.com/g/mmygjh5/ganmaa-davaasambuu

"Davaasambuu, Ganmaa in Brookline, MA is a private company which is listed under laboratories-research and development. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of $36,000 and employs a staff of 1."

I see her and others have published some research: "Wang Y, Wang PY, Qin LQ, Davaasambuu G, Kaneko T, Xu J, Murata S, Katoh R, Sato A. The development of diabetes mellitus in Wistar rats kept on a high-fat/low-carbohydrate diet for long periods. Endocrine. 2003 Nov; 22(2):85-92."

oz in SC V2.0 · #91 02/27/12, 09:31 AM

I guess you mustn't have actually read the link...

Perhaps this will help?
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2006.../11-dairy.html

RWDitto · #92 02/27/12, 09:54 AM

The debate narrows down to this, if you make your living from commercial dairy or associated business then you are totally against raw milk.....if you are a person seeking a more healthful form of non processed food for you and your family, or have always known that natural is better, then you are for natural unadulterated raw milk.

billooo2 · #93 02/27/12, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl

The fact that it wasn't identified doesn't mean it didn't exist. Many modern diseases went by different names in the old days and often were attributed to things like "bad air" in the absence of knowledge about viruses and bacteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_complaint#History

And here's a fun page with a "list of diseases commonly cited in historic obituaries and death certificates and their present day equivalents" :

http://www.gabartow.org/MiscRecs/helpDiseases.shtml

I misunderstood......I thought you meant actaully documenting it. Sorry for my misinterpretation.

billooo2 · #94 02/27/12, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

So now we know that cats carry some of the same bacteria found in raw milk and now we are enlightened with information that milk from pregnant cows causes cancer. Well do tell.

Interesting that the guilt gets thrown at factory farms. Does that necter of the Gods, raw milk, only come from barren cows?

Any homesteaders dancing with the devil by milking pregnant cows?

Did we read the same material?????

According to my understanding, the hormone levels do not rise to the higher levels until later in the prgnancy.....

I am not sure why pasteurization was even in the headline.....??? I saw nothing in the article that said that pasteurization impacts the levels of hormones. Was in it the headline just because most milk is pasteurized???

"Nectar of the Gods"????........did someone, besides you, refer to raw milk using that term???

My argument is that some people benefit from it.......and they should have the freedom to buy the food they want from the producer of their choice.

Paquebot · #95 02/27/12, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billooo2

I misunderstood......I thought you meant sctaully documenting it. Sorry for my misinterpretation.

Here's an abstract from Duke University which cites the 3 main things which improved the infant mortality rates from 1870-1920. One was "improving the supply of milk".

http://ssh.dukejournals.org/content/32/4/473.abstract

Martin

Marilyn · #96 02/27/12, 11:37 AM

Oh Martin, from 1870-1920, I believe the supply of milk for infants came directly from their mothers - or a wet nurse. Duke researchers may have flubbed up a bit on that one.

Paquebot · #97 02/27/12, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marilyn

Oh Martin, from 1870-1920, I believe the supply of milk for infants came directly from their mothers - or a wet nurse. Duke researchers may have flubbed up a bit on that one.

Then you may wish to read this old report which tells what happened in Chicago and why Chicago became the first city to mandate pasteurization.

http://tigger.uic.edu/depts/hist/hul...icity/milk.htm

Martin

billooo2 · #98 02/27/12, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

Any homesteaders dancing with the devil by milking pregnant cows?

I forgot this question.

I can only speak for myself.

1. I milk goats, not cows. I do not know if the same thing happens in goats or not.

2. I very rarely milk goats for 10 months, so I rarely get "late lactation milk."

Your emoticon idicates "grumbling." I do not understand why you would grumble about whether or not someone else is drinking that milk.....???

I have tried to go through life, and learn something new every day. At times that means that some 'long-held convictions were over-turned. I always thought that it was part of life.....constantly learning and changing.

greg273 · #99 02/27/12, 12:02 PM

Those same 'authorities' who tell us that Twinkies, Red Dye#40, Coca-Cola, Sodium Benzoate, GMOs, high-fructose corn syrup and other concoctions of modern food science are completely safe foods, are now telling us raw milk is dangerous... Sorry, but I choose to believe what my own mind, body, and senses tell me..and they tell me that raw milk is a nutritious and wholesome food.
I think it is still against the law to sell raw milk in this state... but that doesn't stop anyone from procuring it, if you know the right people. Ridiculous laws will be ignored, that is exactly how it should be in the Land of the Free.

Paquebot · #**100** 02/27/12, 12:31 PM

For another good history lesson, read:

http://www.philanthropyroundtable.or...y/the_milk_man

In 1842, the Erie RR carried 700,000 to 800,000 quarts of milk into New York City. By 1900, that figure was up to 73 million quarts.

Martin