CDC:Raw milk much more likely to cause illness.

JHinCA · #61 02/25/12, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oz in SC V2.0

You could almost believe some people are paid by agribusiness to post here.

Like you and Pony, I have often wondered the same thing.

haypoint · #62 02/25/12, 05:05 AM

"Are you advocating that cats be banned since they can carry Campylobacter???"
I don't advocate drinking raw cat milk.

billooo2 · #63 02/25/12, 06:08 AM

[QUOTE=Paquebot;5731982

You've been using the same people for reference at time. They are also the sponsor of Real Raw Milk Facts.

Martin[/QUOTE]

OOPS!!!!

Are you confusing 2 different web sites......Real Milk vs. Real Raw Milk Facts.

Correct me if I am wrong.......I have never quoted from Real Raw MIlk Facts....

billooo2 · #64 02/25/12, 06:20 AM

duplicate post

billooo2 · #65 02/25/12, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

www.coloradodaily.com/out-there/ci_15413639
Two others which you may look for are in Missouri in 2008 and British Columbia in 2001, both also since the previously reported 1983.

There's a pet forum on HT for discussion of any of your cat problems.

Martin

WOW!!!! You had to go out of the country to find more problems with Goat milk!!!

You seem to be supporting my contentin aobut the safety of raw goat milk.

Thank you and keep up the good work!!!

I don't have a cat problem.....you are the one who seems so concerned about protecting us from Campylobacter. It looks like more people catch it from cats than from raw milk. Perhaps you should complain to the CDC about documenting that apparnt fact.

billooo2 · #66 02/25/12, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

"Are you advocating that cats be banned since they can carry Campylobacter???"
I don't advocate drinking raw cat milk.

I must have missed it. Could you help me out????.....could you point out where the CDC article says anything about cat milk????

Were you under the assumption that raw milk is the primary means of contracting Campylobacter????

RWDitto · #67 02/25/12, 06:48 AM

For goat milk to be the most consumed milk in the world, the safety record in amazing....

billooo2 · #68 02/25/12, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oz in SC V2.0

You could almost believe some people are paid by agribusiness to post here.

It would be easy to believe.......

I have a "theory".......these people have been told something most of their lives. They were told these things (raw milk is bad and pasteurized milk is perfect) by people they trusted, and they never had any reason to question the validity of these things. Plus, they were told these things under the iimpression that the "science" behind these statements was unreproachable.

Therefore, they just assume that anyone who wants to drink raw milk is just stupid and uninformed.

However, from conventional dairy farmers that I have talked with.....NONE can list ANY of the potentially beneficail enzymes (etc.) that are destroyed by pasteurization. So, they are totally incapable of any meaningful conversation about those components.

Now, when someone comes along and challenges their long-held beliefs.....it seems to arouse a surprinsing emotional response........because we may be striking at their very core belief system. This is something that maybe they have structured their life upon......and we, evil people, ae pulling the rug out from underneath them.

I was not around in the Middle Ages.......but from what I have read, their reaction seems eerily similar to the reation of people when anstronomers first started saying, "The earth is round and not flat."

The anti-raw milk people resort to bogey-man anecdotal stories, and the CDC resorts to "cooking the books" to try to win their argument.

Does my "theory" seem plausible??????

oz in SC V2.0 · #69 02/25/12, 07:00 AM

Americans are,by and large incredibly trusting....and so,are easily manipulated into believing something even AFTER it has bee refuted.

willow_girl · #70 02/25/12, 07:37 AM

Quote:

I have a "theory".......these people have been told something most of their lives. They were told these things (raw milk is bad and pasteurized milk is perfect) by people they trusted, and they never had any reason to question the validity of these things.

And some of us milk cows for a living, and know how it is produced -- from the body of a real, live, living, breathing, pooping, peeing animal. Don't get me wrong; I love milk; I drink it every day; in fact there's a mug sitting next to my computer right now. But I know where it came from, so I want it pasteurized.

Quote:

The anti-raw milk people resort to bogey-man anecdotal stories,

When a friend of yours has been paralyzed, possibly permanently, from Guillain-Barre after being sickened by raw milk, yeah, you tend to tell "anecdotal stories" all right.

Quote:

Willow girl - I forgot my facts, can you tell me how much fecal matter is acceptable in milk picked up at the farm, and what the somatic cell count can be up to? And when it is higher than acceptable they still take it they just dock your check. Now I will agree that they zap it and heat it and kill everything in it, but isnt that because the amount of bad stuff that they allow, would be very bad for you? At my place, I allow NO fecal matter in my milk.

I actually don't know exactly what the plate count (fecal matter) limits are because we've never had any sort of problem with that. (Just Googled; here are the rules in my state: http://www.pabulletin.com/secure/dat...6-30/1207.html ).

USDA SCC limit is 750,000, but the farm I work on now usually averages 90,000-120,000. Of all the farms I worked on as a tester, only one was having trouble complying with the SCC limit. (And that was a small family farm -- 20 cows in a tiestall barn.) Farmers get a premium for producing low-SCC milk, so there is an incentive to cull chronic subclinical cows, etc. Pasteurization kills bacteria but doesn't affect the SCC.

As for the last claim ...

Quote:

"I allow NO fecal matter in my milk." Oh, come on now. I'm going to have to call BS on that statement. Are you using a pail or milker? You can wash teets and bag. You can sqirt milk from each quarter before milking. But there can still can be some microscopic bits in your cow's milk.

While the amounts are likely very low, zero is a difficult goal to meet. Have a Lab run a culture. Tell them you aren't looking for a specific ammount of bacteria, just trying to prove that bacteria from fecal matter does not exist in your sample. In a week, expect to see a fuzzy pretre dish.

Yup, the bacteria may still be there. I wrote elsewhere about trying to obtain some very clean milk samples to be cultured (the cows had mastitis, and we wanted to determine the pathogen). We washed our (gloved) hands and very carefully cleaned the udders -- even more carefully than usual -- before stripping milk into the sterilized containers. When the results came back, about half the samples still showed traces of one fecal bacteria or another.

That was kind of an eye-opening experience for me!

Quote:

I milk goats, and their fecal material does not splatter, it is solid little pellets.

And there ya go. Cows and goats ... apples and oranges.

Quote:

Haypoint - Do you think that killing all bacteria (good and bad) in milk makes it better for you? Why do they put vitamins back in, because they have to put something in it good for you otherwise there would be no use in drinking it.

Only trace amounts of nutrients are removed due to pasteurization. Vitamin D is added for two reasons:

1) Because it isn't found naturally in very many foods, and many people don't get enough sunlight (which is another source). Adding it to a commonly-consumed food like milk helps ensure the population gets enough to prevent ailments caused by its lack.

2) Because it aids in calcium absorption, so adding it to a calcium-rich product like food enhances the health benefits.

ssmith1373 · #71 02/25/12, 09:52 AM

Milk can be pasturised by simply simmering it for 20 minutes. Kept at this low heat it should maintain its good flavor while eliminating bad bacterior, I believe. This is what I was told my my mother-in-law many years ago. It's what she and her mother did to prevent possible baterior caused illnesses in milk in the early 1900s.

RWDitto · #72 02/25/12, 11:34 AM

In the mid 1900's we strained it through a flour sack and drank it, then we went and rode our bike without a helmet.

willow_girl · #73 02/25/12, 01:23 PM

Ahh, those were the days ...

On the other hand, how many modern infants die of "summer complaint" (severe dysentery caused by campylobactereosis)?

IMContrary · #74 02/25/12, 02:58 PM

As for goat manure not splattering, you are correct it doesn't, but it does bounce and every bounce showers little bits of manure into the air and that carries the e-coli right along with it. There has been some speculation that this may actually increase the chance of e-coli contamination in goat milk.

IMContrary · #75 02/25/12, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl

Ahh, those were the days ...

On the other hand, how many modern infants die of "summer complaint" (severe dysentery caused by campylobactereosis)?

Not to mention tuberculosis, brucellosis, salmonella, and staph aureus.

Pony · #76 02/25/12, 06:33 PM

LOL! Srsly?

Goats are not like cows. Mine do not poop whilst on the stand. Their udders are not covered in feces. They don't whizz all over themselves, either.

If your goats do that, then you have more problems than worrying about contamination of your milk.

I am astounded at how many people are so afraid to challenge their immune systems. No wonder there are so many auto-immune disorders today.

Paquebot · #77 02/25/12, 06:47 PM

Nor do goats spend their entire lives with their udders suspended above the ground or bedding area. In that respect, contamination by fecal matter is reduced only 50% that of cows due to 50% reduction in the number of teats.

Martin

Lizza · #78 02/25/12, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

"Are you advocating that cats be banned since they can carry Campylobacter???"
I don't advocate drinking raw cat milk.

Cat Milk? You do realize that your pets can give you Campylobacter, just by you living with them. Didn't you?

billooo2 · #79 02/26/12, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl

Ahh, those were the days ...

On the other hand, how many modern infants die of "summer complaint" (severe dysentery caused by campylobactereosis)?

And the data to support that statement is .......?????

This could be very interesting.....if I remember correctly, the CDC said that Campylobacter was not even identified until the 1970''s.......feel free to correct me if I am wrong in that.

billooo2 · #80 02/26/12, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

Nor do goats spend their entire lives with their udders suspended above the ground or bedding area. In that respect, contamination by fecal matter is reduced only 50% that of cows due to 50% reduction in the number of teats.

Martin

I am not sure that I understand this statement.......

Do goats' udders get moved somewhere else????

What data do you have to support the assertion that goats have 50% less contamination??? It sounds like it could be a great addition to my contention that goat milk is safer than cow milk.