CDC:Raw milk much more likely to cause illness.

haypoint · #**201** 04/19/12, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springvalley

I can not believe this thread, all based on opinion, yours, mine, and theirs. I don`t tell people they have to buy RAW milk, I just want them to have that option. I also want the option to own a gun, and to drive a car, and to own a house, or plant a garden. If you don`t want to drink milk raw or otherwise, don`t drink it, no one holding a gun to your head. I also don`t want you telling me I can`t drink milk if I want to, milk is not something that should be illegal. Milk is a natral product that has been around for thousands of years, and we are now in the time when we should be drinking more raw milk and eating raw foods. Do we need raw milk to drink ?? NO, but if we choose to drink it, why the heck shouldn`t we be able to. If I want to get drunk on my butt, I am allowed to do that. If I want to smoke a pack of cigs a day, I can. I know for a fact that smoking and drinking has killed in one year far more people than Raw milk has ever made sick. But yet we keep having this discussion on Raw real milk, and keep having it, and keep having it. And I see on here it is sure a lot more people in favor of Raw milk than those against it. And that is what is America, majority rules, far to many laws in this country have been drawn up by too few. > God Bless America, > Thanks Marc

Mark, just because the 200 posts to this thread are mostly pro-raw milk, doesn't really speak for the citizens of America does it? If you think it does, you really need to get out more.

I post information and try to beat back misconceptions. I don't care what you drink. But the moment you promote it as a safe food, I'm going to add real, up to date information so people can see both sides and protect their health by being informed.

springvalley · #**202** 04/19/12, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

Mark, just because the 200 posts to this thread are mostly pro-raw milk, doesn't really speak for the citizens of America does it? If you think it does, you really need to get out more.

I post information and try to beat back misconceptions. I don't care what you drink. But the moment you promote it as a safe food, I'm going to add real, up to date information so people can see both sides and protect their health by being informed.

But yet I have never seen you go out of your way to try and get people to quit smoking or drinking. Or have I missed something, are you the green hornet by night. And yet you still strum the same old song of RAW real milk will kill you, anything you buy in the store will and can make you sick if it has E-coli in it. And a lot of those products can and do make you sick, and pasturised milk is right up there also. So come down from your thrown and let us peasants drink raw milk and to sell it to whom we like. > God Bless America,and Raw milk. > Thanks Marc

tailwagging · #**203** 04/19/12, 02:08 PM

ok, i watched it.(fork over knives) just finished it.

there isn't a lot that i disagree with them about. I agree a whole plant based diet is a good thing but that is based not only. they are right too much protein can cause loss of calcium but not JUST animal protein but ALL kinds of protein. I agree low fat and non fat milk are less healthly then full fat.
I think they started to go off when they started about how cow took food away from starving children. cows eat what we can't. and not all dairy cows stand in a stall all day.
I also wondered why they didn't tell us what the doc's son(the firefighter) cholesterol was. couldn't have been the best or they would have pointed it out.

haypoint · #**204** 04/19/12, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springvalley

But yet I have never seen you go out of your way to try and get people to quit smoking or drinking. Or have I missed something, are you the green hornet by night. And yet you still strum the same old song of RAW real milk will kill you, anything you buy in the store will and can make you sick if it has E-coli in it. And a lot of those products can and do make you sick, and pasturised milk is right up there also. So come down from your thrown and let us peasants drink raw milk and to sell it to whom we like. > God Bless America,and Raw milk. > Thanks Marc

Start telling people the health benifits of smoking tobacco or passing out moonshine to pregnant women as a cure for cramping, and I'll have a thing or two to comment on. But if you want to smoke and drink yourself silly, I won't raise an eye brow.

ozark_jewels · #**205** 04/19/12, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

For certain, few here have any compassion for the victims.

Martin

Wow, thats quite a leap. I certainly feel compassion for the thousands who die in vehicle accidents. But I will still defend my right to drive.
How dare you.

Paquebot · #**206** 04/19/12, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

Wow, thats quite a leap. I certainly feel compassion for the thousands who die in vehicle accidents. But I will still defend my right to drive.
How dare you.

You and most everyone else here give the impression that the latest victims are victims of a system that isn't supposed to be. No system tried to deprive them of their right to drink whatever milk they chose. It's entirely legal in their state. If there was any question as to their freedom of choice, it may be argued that they were too young to make the choice. If so, then their parents are at fault for causing their illness by making them consume a product known to cause illness. That report from Oregon should not have provoked any political animosity towards anyone in any position of officialdom unless it were directed at whomever was responsible for allowing it to happen. Life and happiness seem to be two things which are in high demand these days. Some children were forced to nearly forfeit the first and certainly received little of the second and you say that I should not care? How dare you!

Martin

billooo2 · #**207** 04/19/12, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

The victims in Oregon had the personal freedom to choose whatever milk they wished to drink since the State of Oregon has ruled that whatever milk they choose is "what is best for you." Nothing illegal took place and nobody's freedom was infringed on. Instead we have at least 3 victims who may end up with permanent physical problems which in the worse case scenario could mean complete kidney failure resulting in prolonged dialysis and organ transplant. For certain, few here have any compassion for the victims.

Martin

Are you implying that raw milk is the sole or primary source of e-coli infections????

Did I miss something????.......have you advocated that people should not ingest any of the other sources of e-coli????

Few here have any conmpassion for the victims????? What is your evidence for that statement????

Are you now assuming that you have mind-reading abilities????

billooo2 · #**208** 04/19/12, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

You and most everyone else here give the impression that the latest victims are victims of a system that isn't supposed to be. No system tried to deprive them of their right to drink whatever milk they chose. It's entirely legal in their state. If there was any question as to their freedom of choice, it may be argued that they were too young to make the choice. If so, then their parents are at fault for causing their illness by making them consume a product known to cause illness. That report from Oregon should not have provoked any political animosity towards anyone in any position of officialdom unless it were directed at whomever was responsible for allowing it to happen. Life and happiness seem to be two things which are in high demand these days. Some children were forced to nearly forfeit the first and certainly received little of the second and you say that I should not care? How dare you!

Martin

HUH???.....

Paquebot · #**209** 04/19/12, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billooo2

Are you implying that raw milk is the sole or primary source of e-coli infections????

Nope, anything other than raw milk would be deviating from the title and topic of this thread.

Quote:

Did I miss something????.......have you advocated that people should not ingest any of the other sources of e-coli????

See above reply.

Quote:

Few here have any conmpassion for the victims????? What is your evidence for that statement????

Nobody else mentioned them.

Quote:

Are you now assuming that you have mind-reading abilities????

I have considerable comprehension of the English language as used in this thread.

Martin

Paquebot · #**210** 04/19/12, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billooo2

HUH???.....

Use your head. There are laws which say that a child under a certain age must be properly constrained in an approved car seat when in a vehicle. Failure to comply results in punitive or physical damages depending upon events. There are laws which say that the label of any packaged food product must note if any of the contents are known allergens. Failure to comply results in punitive or physical damages depending upon events. Deliberately exposing a child to either of those two and resulting in death would be akin to second degree murder.

Now stop to think. There are some here who think that the easiest thing to do with raw milk is to simply put a warning label stating that it may contain harmful elements. Cigarette sale to minors is forbidden and packs must display a health warning label. If an adult wants to use the product, that's the individual's choice. If a similar warning label were required on raw milk, it would be the individual's choice as to if to buy the product or not. Since minors can not legally make choices which may endanger their health, who is legally at fault when an adult administers it? For certain, anything potentially hazardous to one's health can not be sold to minors.

The latest milk-borne illness in Ohio could be used as an example. Two people were affected, ages 4 and 60+. The adult could put whatever he wished into his body as it was his choice. The child did not have any choice but to do as the adult parents ordered. If the parents were ignorant of any danger in what they fed to their child, then they could be forgiven. But if they knew the consequences it is no different than failing to constrain the child in a car seat and having an accident. In both instances there would be a victim who had no choice in the matter.

Martin

tailwagging · #**211** 04/20/12, 07:05 AM

you better not give that child orange juice either then, or cantaloup

ozark_jewels · #**212** 04/20/12, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

You and most everyone else here give the impression that the latest victims are victims of a system that isn't supposed to be. No system tried to deprive them of their right to drink whatever milk they chose. It's entirely legal in their state. If there was any question as to their freedom of choice, it may be argued that they were too young to make the choice. If so, then their parents are at fault for causing their illness by making them consume a product known to cause illness. That report from Oregon should not have provoked any political animosity towards anyone in any position of officialdom unless it were directed at whomever was responsible for allowing it to happen. Life and happiness seem to be two things which are in high demand these days. Some children were forced to nearly forfeit the first and certainly received little of the second and you say that I should not care? How dare you!

Martin

You get THAT out of any of my few posts?? I don't have time to deal with your lack of reading abilities. I bow to your oh so superior sense of compassion. Now I am bowing out of this extremely

and ridiculous conversation. I gotta go do something actually important.

springvalley · #**213** 04/20/12, 08:17 AM

Well, I`m done with this issue for this week, I`m going to work on saving the rain forrest`s now. There are some ring tailed monkies down their that need my help. We are NEVER going to change the minds of certain individuals on this site, they will spend two days scouring the headlines from around the world to find a few cases of someone getting sick(alledged)from raw milk. So I guess once again we are NEVER going to agree on the Raw real milk issue. I`m for it, their against it, never going to give an inch either way. I think your wrong, you think I`m wrong, never going to change that I guess. Anyway, I will toast you all that believe with a tall glass of RAW real milk, And those of you that don`t, never mind. > God Bless America and Raw Milk. > Thanks Marc

nodak3 · #**214** 04/20/12, 02:58 PM

Did have a cousin sicken and almost die from raw milk back in the 50's. I was just a kid and don't remember what it was other than ___________ fever.

That said, my gut and I wish I could run down to the grocery and get pasteurized but non homogenized milk.

billooo2 · #**215** 04/20/12, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

Nope, anything other than raw milk would be deviating from the title and topic of this thread.

See above reply.

Nobody else mentioned them.

I have considerable comprehension of the English language as used in this thread.

Martin

Not sure what you are opposed to...?????.......people getting sick???.....or the freedom of people to have the choice as to what they consume???

If it is sickness........and e-coli is is culprit.......then what are the other foods that should be banned???

Because no one else mentioned the victims.......in your mind, that means that no one else cares????

Let me see......the CDC estimates there are 9 million people in the US drinking raw milk.........and you apparently believe that the outbreak in Oregon justifies no one having the freedom to choose raw milk????

Paquebot · #**216** 04/20/12, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billooo2

Not sure what you are opposed to...?????.......people getting sick???.....or the freedom of people to have the choice as to what they consume???

If it is sickness........and e-coli is is culprit.......then what are the other foods that should be banned???

Because no one else mentioned the victims.......in your mind, that means that no one else cares????

Let me see......the CDC estimates there are 9 million people in the US drinking raw milk.........and you apparently believe that the outbreak in Oregon justifies no one having the freedom to choose raw milk????

You really do have things screwed up! Didn't mention being opposed to anything. I've pointed out the fact that Oregon allows exactly what you want and you and a lot of other appear angry about it? That doesn't seem right. I would have thought that all of the pro-raw milk factions here would have been happy to be informed of how Oregon feels the same way.

By the way, since you mentioned food to be banned, how many have you suggested be banned? If only one, that's one more than I have,

Martin

billooo2 · #**217** 04/20/12, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

Use your head. There are laws which say that a child under a certain age must be properly constrained in an approved car seat when in a vehicle. Failure to comply results in punitive or physical damages depending upon events. There are laws which say that the label of any packaged food product must note if any of the contents are known allergens. Failure to comply results in punitive or physical damages depending upon events. Deliberately exposing a child to either of those two and resulting in death would be akin to second degree murder.

Now stop to think. There are some here who think that the easiest thing to do with raw milk is to simply put a warning label stating that it may contain harmful elements. Cigarette sale to minors is forbidden and packs must display a health warning label. If an adult wants to use the product, that's the individual's choice. If a similar warning label were required on raw milk, it would be the individual's choice as to if to buy the product or not. Since minors can not legally make choices which may endanger their health, who is legally at fault when an adult administers it? For certain, anything potentially hazardous to one's health can not be sold to minors.

The latest milk-borne illness in Ohio could be used as an example. Two people were affected, ages 4 and 60+. The adult could put whatever he wished into his body as it was his choice. The child did not have any choice but to do as the adult parents ordered. If the parents were ignorant of any danger in what they fed to their child, then they could be forgiven. But if they knew the consequences it is no different than failing to constrain the child in a car seat and having an accident. In both instances there would be a victim who had no choice in the matter.

Martin

I don't see any need for personal attacks, such as "use your head."

I would like to clarify what point you are trying to make.......Are you saying that it is a good thing that the government is so intrusive that it even makes laws about how we should restrain our own children in our own vehicles?????.....and that all of our freedoms should be subject to the whims of government beauracrats???

From what I have seen in reviewing CDC data,.... ice cream, church suppers, and restaurants are more likely to make one sick than raw milk. Are you sayiung that children should never be subjected to those things????

I lived in New Hampshire for several years. It is legal to sell raw milk on the farm. There did not seem to be the huge problem that you seem to portray. It did not seem to be an issue up there. No one seemed to give it a second thought. As far as I can tell, New Hampshire was first "settled" almost 400 years ago. That means that raw milk has been consumed for almost 400 years. That seems like a pretty good "trial period" to me.

billooo2 · #**218** 04/20/12, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

You really do have things screwed up! Didn't mention being opposed to anything. I've pointed out the fact that Oregon allows exactly what you want and you and a lot of other appear angry about it? That doesn't seem right. I would have thought that all of the pro-raw milk factions here would have been happy to be informed of how Oregon feels the same way.

By the way, since you mentioned food to be banned, how many have you suggested be banned? If only one, that's one more than I have,

Martin

Are you saying that you are supportive of people having the freedom to buy and consume raw milk???

I do not recall recommnediung that any food being banned......I have been under the impression that you are opposed to people driniking raw milk.

Paquebot · #**219** 04/20/12, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billooo2

Are you saying that you are supportive of people having the freedom to buy and consume raw milk???

Is it senility which is causing you to forget my opinion on this matter? More than once I have stated that I am quite pleased with the status quo of my state which allows myself and anyone else to legally purchase whole raw milk from any farmer who is willing to sell it. We don't need someone in Ohio or any other state telling us how unhappy we should be by being able to do it. Sounds like you are suffering a bad case of sour grapes to me.

Quote:

I do not recall recommnediung that any food being banned......I have been under the impression that you are opposed to people driniking raw milk.

See above reply and then extrapolate how one can support the sale and purchase of a product and yet be opposed to it. My exact position on this matter is none of your business nor anyone else's. The primary things in life that I am very much opposed to are sickness and death. I've had enough of the first in my life and do not look forward to the second.

Martin

tailwagging · #**220** 04/21/12, 06:22 AM

sorry but your posts are very hard to understand.
you seem to feel that the ones who want raw are mad that Oregon is a raw milk state. I don't see it.
I see them upset that raw milk is always blamed and bashed when other foods can cause the same sickness yet not banned in any state.