small scale grain growing

One piece of equipment that would be perfect for this application would be an Allis Chalmers All Crop, or a similar make.

These are pull behind, PTO driven combines.

While these haven't been built in 40 years, many people still use them. Tom Yaz is manufacturing parts and rebuilding All Crops for people who need machines for small apps.

I think his site is yazallcrop.com, or something like that.

The All Crop would be PERFECT for small scale farming, especially wheat.

The trick would be to find a working model in good condition, with good drapes, and some screens to go with it.

Those machines would be a labor of love, and it might take some work getting them going or keeping them running.

But they would be PERFECT for harvesting wheat!!!!!

But one does not have to plant an acre of wheat to satisfy a years supply. Multiple references say a patch 10x100 feet will provide a years supply of wheat for a 2 person family. Make it 20x100 to ensure a reduced yield would still give enough and if a good year there would be plenty to trade or to can to keep for storage against a bad year with a failed crop.

Farm Show has an article about a mini thresher. It says you can cut wheat or other small grains with a sythe and put it through the thresher by hand. The clean grain goes into a bucket and the chaff and straw are blown out a pipe. It will thresh out 20 pounds of grain in an hour. Running the grain through the second time removes all the chaff. Completly assembled (less a 1/4 hp electric motor) sells for $685 However it can be shipped unassembled for $345. Freight paid.
Howe@megalink.net

priced an old All Crop lately?
I'm sure there are deals out there but at Tractor House they are averaging 3000. If you want an old John Deere combine more like 6000. Then you need a tractor to haul it and operate it.
Buddy of mine has an old 60 and he was offered 3500 for it. Lady said she couldn't find them anywhere, been looking for a time.
Anytime I see an old pull type at auction the price goes out of my range quite quickly unless it's a complete basket case.
At our place in its original form the combine would have had to sit in the driveway and be fed scythe cut grain anyway. And I would bet that would be the case at more than a few places.
A small thresher would probably be the better bet in a lot of cases.

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Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

Last fall there were several on allischalmers.com in good working order.

I think the most expensive one was $1,500, I think.

At the same time, I saw one listed on CL, rotted down to the frame. It would have taken 10 days of work and a pile of cash just getting it ready to pull out of the fence row. They were asking $1,500 for that one, LOL.

I think we will see pull type combines escalate in value over time, but prices are still all over the board.

Even with that said, if you wanted to custom grow your own wheat, what can you buy these days for less than $2,000? Most of the need parts to keep or get one running are available...I'm hearing that isn't the case with early combines like Gleaners, etc.

The All Crop certainly has some advantages in today's world of small farming.

UncleWill - do you have more information on this piece of equipment? We 'd like to know more about it. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to email you for more information or what.....

Also, maybe I missed this somewhere in the thread.

Didn't Paul Wheaton post on this topic a while back, showing how one guy threshes wheat?

Seems that Paul featured a YouTube video showing how someone was using a lawn mower that was set on top of a large barrel or wood frame. The person was dropping their cut straw down where the mulch cover was (not thru the discharge chute), and the mower was beating the grain off the stalk.

IIRC, the operator was separating the chaff using a fan, and also a screen to clean the grain.

Paul was saying this was a perfect solution to threshing up to an acre of grain.

I've slept since then, but it sure seemed like a good idea, if I remember correctly...and I am hoping I didn't dream this up...

this might help
http://backtotheland.com/html/wheat_thrasher.html

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He who thinks he knows, doesn't. He who knows he doesn't know, knows.~ Joseph Campbell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeMrK...AE7062ADE5A19C

I used to have that page bookmarked but lost it during the last snafu.
Looks like an interesting machine

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Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

I've harped on this subject a lot in the past, and here goes again. Let's think outside the box for a minute. For two thousand years, maybe three, mankind has threshed grain by hitting it with something....whether a wooden flail or with a spinning combine cylinder head that dashes the grain against a steel bar........that's the principle that has endured to today--with the result that you see twenty ton John Deere behemoths out in the fields at harvest time--using precious diesel fuel and cutting grooves in the soil.

In order to carry out this principle on a miniature basis, for the small, homestead plot, you have to build a machine that is still too heavy, too costly, and too bulky to do what needs to be done--that is--get enough grain harvested and threshed for breadmaking, maybe feeding to animals, and for reseeding next season........and to do it without spending huge amounts of muscle power--and getting it done it in the time window you have available to you, involving weather and other chores, and quite probably, your day job in town. This is the dilemma we are discussing in one way or another as each of us thinks about scytheing it, or using a lawnmower or chopper conversion, or using a sixty year old Allis Chalmers All Crop behind an equally ancient tractor.........

How 'bout this???? First, get the grain heads(unthrashed) into the safety of the barn when the grain is ready. By using a lightweight, adjustable cutter mounted on a lightweight tractor, you could do this and suck them into a storage bag/box (think about how a leaf vacuum works....) Actually, I'm thinking that this would pre-shatter a lot of grain out of the heads in the first place--plus you would leave the bulky straw in the field.....

Now, folks, why don't we reverse the ancient process? Instead of dashing something--usually heavy, against the grain, why don't we dash the grain into something??? That way, the only energy that gets expended is in moving the grain, not the iron....... By using a fan, you could do that, plus winnow the chaff at the same time(eliminating the rest of the John Deere horsepower...).....

Actually , I think you could coil up a length of corregated tubing, like on the blower that blows house insulation. I think the grain and chaff would separate just by hitting the rippled sidewalls.....and varying the length and wind pressure for different grains......

Sound like a plan? Got any engineers/entrepreneurs out there?

geo

Good Idea MAYBE for small acreages, but I think John Deere, cat, case, new holland, gleaner are here to stay. It would take a lot of guys to harvest a billion acres of wheat using a low powered fan. And a lot of brick walls!

Wheat though is a tough crop to thresh, it needs a good banging and rubbing, At least most vareties. Barley may work like that, and perhaps oats, but wheat is tough. There are LOTS of threshing machines parked in the bush around here, that have the basic cylinder/concave concept, and would take little power. All you would need to do is dimantle the threshing mechanism, and hook it to a pto which is geared or run at various speeds, according to the crop type, adjust the clearance, and voila!

I've spent many an hour in front of, on top of, behind, inside(resetting the cylinder bars), and under an All-Crop already, and that's exactly why I'm suggesting the possibility of simpler, faster, less complicated, and newer type of machine specifically designed with the needs of today's homesteader/smallholder in mind. The All-Crop ran from the constant 550 RPM PTO speed, but had a variable sheave to set the cylinder from about 1500--2000 RPM--also a variable concave to beater bar height adjustment and number of beater bars to get the proper grain requirements. AND, different straw-walker settings and different screens inside for the various combos.........plus different fan damper controls to keep the grain from blowing out the side......

I have nothing against today's commodity farmers, but to get one bushel of wheat from him, he would spill twenty bushels on the ground before he could shut off the auger. Today's homesteader growers are looking for something different that suits them.....no, just cut off the heads, get them to the barn, then proceed with something far simpler. I still think air power would be the way to go, but it will take a smart engineer, willing to think in a new way.

geo

I hear you. I also meant to run it as a stationary machine, in the yard or something. That way you can collect the chaff and straw right at the barn, etc..

The problem with this method is that it doesn't tend to give you a very fine flour. It is rather course and thus has a limited use in breads and such. I would recommend getting a decent grinder. There are several good ones on the market that are different sizes for what you may need. You can also find some that will allow you to use 'manual labor' to grind with but I'll tell your from experience it isn't much fun (in spite of what my dad used to say as he 'watched' us kids grind away) and a lot of work for a little return. Now with some ingenuity you can rig one of those ginders up to a bike or such and make it much easier.

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"I love a good debate but detest an argument, and get frustrated at those who can't tell the difference."

The issue you run into with buying some brands of wheat is that they are hybridized wheat and so you have no guarantee as to what you'll end up with. It may work and then it may end up with something a bit different.

Now if you can find some heirloom grains you should be fine.

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"I love a good debate but detest an argument, and get frustrated at those who can't tell the difference."

Maybe that is an american thing? We have no hybridized wheat up here. Was always under the impression it is very difficult to hybridize??? I know they have done some, but I didn't know they had it in the pipeline. I'll have to ask around.

Not any hybrid wheat that I am aware of at the current time. I think there was some promoted at one time but it was still wheat when planted back. Just didn't remain true to variety for vary long when planted back.

these guys have organic seed, not sure how close thier dealer is to you though! may mean a road trip.

http://www.homesteadorganics.ca/GoogleMap/

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àigeach carnaid
chaora dhubh
"Don't raise your voice, improve your argument."

cruachan

Really, wheat is easy to harvest by hand and get to grinding stage in small quantities. Barley the same with beardless varieties. Oats are a little harder but not bad if you roast them, then rub them between something and winnow. I do some every year. I buy the wheat directly from the farm as I use a ton or more each year, some for us and the rest for the animals. I buy screenings from the same farmer in sacks and clean them for animal feed, seperate the peas, vetch, oats and barley with a small fanning mill. We grind or sprout the grains we eat ourselves. I need to know where and how they were grown and stored....James

There is experimentation going on with hybridizing wheat, which involves chemical stripping of the male, pollen producing parts and allowing some fertilization from another source of pollen. BUT, the real issue is that nearly all wheat has been selected and localized to each specific growing area and latitude. I wouldn't worry about getting any so-called hybridized seed, but I would question getting organic wheat from, say Vermont, and expecting it to meet the weather and "vernalization" requirements of say, southern Indiana......

The majority of wheat-is, and will continue to be self-fertile--getting pollen from itself, on the same stem. But it has been selected for its own locale.......so one would have to search out a source in his/her own region....

The other problem is finding seed in less than 50 lb bags and not treated with fungicide/insecticide(not that fungicide isn't necessary, but how would you get rid of the excess?). But one could give it a try, then start selecting and saving seeds for next year.

I think the sale of wheat at the local farm market might be a winner, especially if you could grind it on the spot for a weekly supply..... but again, this area will not take off(in my opinion that I have expressed several times,) until there is a simpler, faster way to harvest and thresh it.....

geo