Will The Economy Collapse If Everyone Starts Homesteading?

Exactly! I wonder how many others, like me, have to work a job just to pay for their homesteading habit?

I like to think that if I HAD TO, I could grow more of the feed, build my own fencing, etc. But that would take more time, so I wouldn't be able to go out to work. But I still need money for taxes, utilities, etc. So I need to work. So I don't have time to raise feed, etc. So, I'd better just keep working and paying for the homestead... and round and round the thought process goes.

I still say the skills we are developing would come in handy if the economy collapsed due to other causes. We'd all be better off than the millions who eat out every meal, have 5 credit cards, drive a new car or truck every 3 years, live in a house too big to heat with wood...

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The government can't give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
--Dr. Adrian Rogers

Our civilization is much more interdependent than that of just 100 years ago. The other factor is that most families if they had farming in their past are several generations removed by now from that existence and the body of knowledge.

The vast majority are not going to give up the so-called modern life style of gratification and self-esteem from spending. "Keeping up with the Joneses" has been around a long time. Take a look at pickups today. It wasn't too long ago that if you saw something like that, you'd have known the driver was a pimp. To underscore the point, all of that flash is plastic. What a joke!

You only have to walk through a store and look at the things that "progress" has made indispensable. Years ago, very few people bought toilet paper. Toothpaste is another product that's not essential. Shaving cream is another. Ditto disposable razors.

The products that disappear off the shelves if there's a hint of a snow storm, bread and milk, are products that not too long ago were produced at home or from a close local source.

Most of the ads on TV are trying to sell you something you really don't need. Some huckster or another is always coming up with something that plays on human vanity, fear or desire for convenience to sell because the product doesn't come anywhere close to being a necessity.

There is absolutely no danger of consumerism dying. Civilization has gone so far down the path, nothing short of the apocalypse will stop it. Most have no idea how insidious marketing is. Most of us are under psychological attack to get us to buy something virtually every minute we're awake.

"Will The Economy Collapse If Everyone Starts Homesteading?" The answer is that it will never happen. The economy will not collapse from the few people that manage to extricate themselves from consumerism. That's not to say that the economy won't collapse from something else. It definitely won't happen from homesteading.

It sounds like you are saying that the back to the land movement and the nearings were a farse and a failure, am I reading you right?

It kind of depends on what you mean by homesteading. Moving back to an agricultural lifestyle on a piece of land? I don't know if there is enough land for everyone to homestead.

I agree with what some others have said, I think a collapse can happen regardless of this and is probably already in the process.

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http://littlehomesteadonthehill.blogspot.com/

whong comment for this thread

I think you were replying to me, and I understand & agree with what you said. Kinda added that part on the end with a grin. I'm rural enough I don't have cable anywhere close, but DSL on the phone lines comes in fairly fast as I'm less than a mile from a small (40-50 people?) community at a cross-roads. But that upgrade only got installed 2-3 years ago, before that it was dial-up only.

Little farther down the road tho still a lot of dial-up only available.

--->Paul

IMO, if the economy does collapse, the government will just have to switch back to the gold standard. That is the reason we, as a country, are 15trillion in debt. Going off the gold standard has allowed our gov't to borrow from other countries, namely China, who is IMO our greatest threat. If the economy fails, we will have to answer to China and that scares me. All I want is to work my land and to be left alone. That is the American dream.

[QUOTE=lisa's garden;5615649]It kind of depends on what you mean by homesteading. Moving back to an agricultural lifestyle on a piece of land? I don't know if there is enough land for everyone to homestead.

I agree with what some others have said, I think a collapse can happen regardless of this and is probably already in the process.[/QUOTE


Exactly Right! There are so many good people in the Cities that there is not enough agricultural Land available to accommodate 20% of them on the Land, if they each only wanted 5 acres to Homestead.
It would take a whole paradigm shift, in the Country, to break up the large Farms that way. Millions more miles of fencing, and side roads, millions more
buckets, baskets, small farm equipment........It goes on & on.........

At least, it boggles my mind........

__________________
Be Intense, always. But always take the time to
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'Til later, Have Fun,
Old John

If you believed that the Nearing’s were approaching self-sufficiency through their garden, then what you saw and read was false. If you thought that, without outside help, the Nearing’s were food independent, they failed to live up to that.
If you thought that someone could grow their own food and support themselves with books about their gardening methods, they were a great success.

The "Back to the Land" movement of the 1970s had many successes and many failures.

If part of your homesteading plan involves being energy independent with a wood cook stove, but if you buy a chainsaw to cut firewood and a truck to haul it, what do those things run on? Some folks got away from the electric company by using kerosene lamps. Simply trading one dependency for another.

Others wanted to cut their food costs and raise their own beef. Soon they were buying grain and hay from someone instead of going to the grocery store. Plus they had to buy a freezer to store it. Some bought haying equipment to do their own. But they didn't do it by selling vegetables at the farmers market.

You may grow all your vegetables, perhaps enough to sell. But are the receipts enough to pay for the inputs. Aren't you also dependent on fossil fuels to till the soil?

Each person can pick the area that they want to be independent/self-sufficient. But it is unrealistic to be totally independent in all aspects of homesteading.

It is possible to be independent/self sufficient. It would take a complete change in life style.

If you had kids you would probably be put in jail for child abuse.
One person or even a couple could be self sufficient but it would be a very hard short life. Not one that many people would choose. The day may come when we don't have a choice.

Maybe the biggest problem for many, unless they won a lottery, is that land is EXPENSIVE. Very little land can be paid off from activities on that land. Then the local govt has decided that even once its paid off, you still need to pay what is basically rent to them for the privilege of owning it. And pay them for permission to do anything on this land you bought that you are paying yearly rent for. Oh and they are going to tell you what kind of dwelling you can live in and so on. They require you to build a dwelling that will generate more yearly rent to them for privilege of owning it.

And also the fact that effective wages from an off land job are shrinking. The powers that be either export the good blue collar jobs or legally declare a great need for foreign workers if salaries rise much so here comes the desperate of the world to keep labor prices low. Or they pay govt to just look other way and allow undocumented to come on mass, again to keep labor prices artificially low.

So unless you are a wealthy eccentric or just lucked into a comfortable income with good pension and now are retiring, well you dont have great chance.

In previous back to land movements, rural land that wasnt particularly valuable agriculturally could be bought for a song. People were headed to cities for the "high wages. Now with burgeoning population and people looking for "vacation property" or even development sprawl speculation, no cheap land. Any affordable land is not within commuting distance of ANY job or it has extreme climate, no water, etc.

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"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" -Dorothy

"Well, then ignore what I have to say and go with what works for you." -Eliot Coleman

Highly desire-able land in some areas is expensive. Don't buy that there. There is plenty of cheap land. Look further out.

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SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids

I agree with you about never being totally independent. For me, it is finding the degree of dependence and independence that I can manage and live with. If I followed in the footsteps of most mainstream people, like I have in the past, I would never be able to catch up and be OK, I would always be working night and day just to pay for things that I do not want or need, and I would always be stressed out and in debt. I would never find peace of mind.

My idea of independence would be to have solar panels and then oil lights for back up. I think solar is more independent then oil lamps, and a lot more independent then being hooked up to the electric plant.
If you read back on some of my post in this thread you will see that I also think that people can never be 100% independent from trading with other people.

I do not totally discredit the nearings, they gave it a good go. Maybe they were not 100% independent from the world, but they did a good job breaking away from the yoke of the modern daily grind. Anyway though, even if they were not 100% successful, they where and still are a great inspiration to many people. Reading their book Live The Good Life, really helped me sort myself out, and for that, I am greatful.

If publishing books and jetting around the country on speaking tours is your idea of independence. I think I can agree with you but on different levels. Making a lot of money does add a degree of independence. Money might not buy happiness, but its got hard scrabble poverty beat all to heck.

If I spent $1000 on solar panels and batteries, I'll have light for 20 or so years, based on the life of the panels. I could also just buy a couple LED lights and pay my utility bill. If I mirror my use to that of a $1000 solar panel, I'd spend under the 13 cents that the solar panels cost. So, I can spend my $1000 outright, or keep it in me mattress and spend it on electricity as I choose. Having $1000 died up in Solar Panels vs holding on to your money doesn't sound so independent.

I am glad you found something to read that made you feel good. I remember how much I enjoyed the Bobsy Twins. I'd like to encourage you to read On Waldon Pond. Lots of folks enjoy that, too.

The world would stop spinning on it's axis if everyone spent money the way I do. There'd be no cafes/restaurants, no bars, no movie theaters (entertainment venues)... most retail establishments would shutter close. No more hotels/motels.

There would be a large hardware/general store here and there... with all the hardware needs a fella might have a hankering for, bolts of cloth, needles, and thread... flour, sugar, salt, and a handful of spices. Nice selection of bullets, powders, and primers.

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

So you find no merit in the homesteading lifestyle, or a lifestyle like the amish that tries to disconnect from the mainstream world? You see zero merit in the nearings venture? Even when it comes down to the Nearings making their own DYI home and trying to be more independent and closer to the earth, you find no merit is a family doing things themselves for less cost then paying someone else?

You are assuming that electric prices will remain contant for 20 years. At least with a solar panel set up if the price of electric goes up 15 year later the cost of your electric is ether free or constant. It would not take 20 years to pay off a solar panel set up. You can get a decent set up from 3 to 6 grand and that will keep you going for a long time. If it takes a person 20 years to pay off six grand something is wrong in their life.

You have your way of thinking and that is your right. You just seem a little bitter about the back to the land movement, and although the movement is not perfect, the goals and spirit behind it, are well intentioned.

Really~!
And then after 20 years you state over again all to wait another 20 years for ANY kind of pay off value in what you just expended out. Not very many will take a deal like that.

I’m not bitter, but I don’t want someone to make self-sufficiency their goal, while most folks on this site are not homesteading. Many are working hard at their day jobs and heading home to their labor of love. Most are lucky to break even on the cost of raising chickens, goats, ducks, pigs and cows. Some may raise sheep, but few spin and weave all their clothes. The term Homesteader cannot be defined on this site. I think that if you work a job to be able to pay the bills so you can garden, farm or raise livestock, then it is a hobby. But others will argue that many full time farmers have outside income these days. True enough.

I love the spirit of the back to the land movement. I’ve been at it for over 30 years. The hard work and extra expense, beyond my citified friends has made me no more secure than they are. WTSHTF isn’t an event to plan your life around. I was there during the sugar and canning lid shortages of 1977. Just a scam. I subscribed to Mother Earth News for 15 years. I sold Small Farmers Journals at County Fairs. I grew a 3 acre garden, maintaining it with a 5 horse rototiller, a hoe and a lawn sprinkler on an aluminum ladder. I’ve raised rabbits, chickens, ducks, geese, pigs, milk and beef cows, sheep, dogs, cats and children. I heated with wood, cooked with wood, lived a year without electricity or toilet. I’ve bathed in a wash tub in the winter. I’ve raised horses, broke horses and worked horses. I’ve built a huge barn and a couple more. I’ve sold organic eggs and planted an orchard. Through it all I held a full time job and my annual net receipts were often many hundreds of dollars to the negative. I don’t regret a second of it, but most times homesteading costs more than simply shopping.

But to pretend that Helen and Scott were wondrous gardeners is just silly. They filled a need at a time when a bunch of idealistic kids wanted the key to independence. Rodale Press did the same thing. Got folks to believe that Scottish Highlanders were perfect for the homestead. Some are still buying that snake oil. I forget what weed they were promoting as the grain of the future, Amerith or some such.

I just have been at it long enough to have put down my rose colored glasses and get up close to the reality. Oh, the Amish are such good furniture makers, barn builders, kind and loving stewards of the soil? Not so much. It turns out they are humans. Some are bad carpenters and cruel fathers. Some mistreat their livestock. Just like the rest of the people we share this world with. For someone like you that believes what Helen and Scott wrote, I must sound jaded. If your only contact with the Amish is at the Cheese Store or watching them disc a field, that life must seem enviable. Sacrifice your independence and obey the Church leaders isn’t most homesteader’s dream.

You think a person should be able to pay off $6000 in 20 years? Sure, if you don’t buy more land, more equipment, build fences, put in a well for the livestock, buy a chainsaw, buy most of the feed for the livestock or the more expensive way, buy enough equipment to do it yourself. That Solar Panel isn’t the only big expense you are dealing with. It is that fear that prices will shoot way up that gets folks to invest in $6000 solar panels, $6000 wind generators and $3000 cook stoves. Do you know who gets independent? The folks that got rich selling the stuff to you. Do you know what a homesteader with a $10,000. Solar Panel and a rich person have in common? Neither cares if the price of electricity goes up. Do you know the difference between them? If the price of Solar Panels goes down or the cost of electricity stays low, the rich guy still has his money.

Homesteaders in the past have had outside jobs (ether part time or seasonal), or have sold goods they have made or grown, that is part of homesteading. I never said a homesteader could be completely independent, and I most likely never will. If someone wanted to be independent, they would have to go back to living like stone age man, but where can you do that these days.

.................I'd just make one small point.....Anyone owning their homestead can BE completely debt free , and , should they come upon hard times and NOT beable to pay the Local Tax Authorities , You will Lose your Property under most circumstances ! So , NO ONE truly Owns their property , You're just renting IT from the local Property tax Entity in your state . , fordy