Will The Economy Collapse If Everyone Starts Homesteading?

birdman1 · #41 01/05/12, 01:05 PM

I see a lot of jobs leaving the big citys but the people living there are not our urban areas are being supported by tax dollars (public aid) and unemployment compesation .lots of factorys are emty products are not being proudced the polititions are raising taxes, tolls on tollways,and going crazy handing out parking tickets trying to keep thier income flowing as the consumers spend less sales tax income follows.the middle class is slowly disapering leaving a few shrinking number of higher payed and a rapidy growing population on a survial income. Its very sad to say but it looks like a econimic collapes is creeping up up on these areas (think of this when buying auto parts ,clothes ,and any thing without a tag that says made in the usa and it is getting harder to find these tags) .If everyone would start a homestead produceing there own food and clothing And hard ware the merchants would have change the items they sell making more raw material available like cloth instead of finished clothing and seeds instead of french fries . I have noticed lots more farmers markets and flea mkts. poping up everywhere as econimic conditions are moving consumers to buy second hand goods and homesteader types to supply foods eliminating the middle men and mercants .In conclusion hold on to your homestead plant a larger garden increase your ability to produce foods and storage of foods as the need for these things is riseing fast as the prices from large suppliers and incomes are going down along with the strength of the dollar. an over night swich to homesteading would be diaster to many but a boom to many others depending on what supplies a servises they provide .It is creeping up on us any way so learn and teach if you can .could you plow your garden or make hay for your horse and cow if fuel becomes to costly or unavailable for the roto tiller or tractor .Lets hope for the best .

SquashNut · #42 01/05/12, 01:05 PM

That's the trick to knowing what your doing in a business. Have what your customers need. So if they want tractors, stop trying to sell sports cars.

**highlands** · #43 01/05/12, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by City Bound

How would a homesteader make all his or her own energy?

Actually, while I agree in general with what you had said that is a bad example. I can produce all the energy we need to thrive in the form of wood heat, solar heat, hydro-electric power and bio-diesel. I can even manufacture all the tools needed to make these energies and I can make the tools to make those tools.

On the other hand, building a computer is beyond me. I can design and build it but I can't manufacture the chips at the level we have today. They are a delicious luxury.

Still, I agree with you that it won't happen. And jolly good.

rambler · #44 01/05/12, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45n5

i think it's interesting that many people think it will never happen

i think it's possible,

i mean it's not hard to sell the homesteading lifestyle

that's why i was wondering what will happen to the economy, or country in general if everyone found homesteading as the way to go.

People have spent 200+ years in this country running away from the wagon train, sod house, homesteading lifestyle.

I'm more of a farmer than homesteader, but I love the life.... Can't imagine the pain of living every day in a crowded city, no room, ick.

but, I'm very much in the minority, as are you. Homesteader lifestyle appeals to many people in a wistful, storybook way. But when you hand them a fork or a hoe, they _quickly_ want to rebuild their city!!!!!!

So, no, it's not really possible.

It would clobber the heck out of our current ecconomy, which is to say it would destroy our govt. You all do realize the ecconomy _is_ the govt? They control the ecconomy, and they lose control of it during times of depression. they can easily control things and raise taxes with inflation and intrest rates. But when we all stop spending, they lose control.

Now, another ecconomy/ govt would shape up and take it's place, so I'm not saying it would be a bad thing, but certainly if the masses went to a homesteader type of living, it would drastically change the ecconomy/ govt.

Now, could we even find land and equipment to outfit everyone with a homestead? Lot of people live in less thsan 2000 sq ft apartments/townhomes/condos, we spread them all out onto an acre to 5 per family, and things are gonna get exciting from an ecconomy standpoint..... What do you think land costs would go to?

Then - how many here really _are_ living the homesteader lifestyle????? Hummm? This site is to talk about it, and many are doing a little bit of it. But - when most on here talk about getting rid of their land line because they get internet through their cable company......

If you are living in an area that has cable access, you are not exacly roughing it and abandoning a consumer-based ecconimy!

--->Paul

CountryWannabe · #45 01/05/12, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olivehill

people may be FORCED into it, but they're not going to go willingly. It's too much hard, physical labor. It's too dirty. It's too hot, too cold, too stinky. It's too inconvenient.

I agree with this. Most of us on here actually enjoy the hard work and such, but very few people do. I know several people that would probably starve rather than spend hours in a garden or butcher a chicken...

I have been told by some of them that I should be taking it easy now and not working so hard. When I reply that it isn't work - it's my hobby, they roll their eyes and look at me as if I'm strange.

Mary

InvalidID · #46 01/05/12, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChanceTheRapids

What a great idea for a post.

I think an equally good question could be:

"If the economy collapses, would people start homesteading?"

Personally I think regardless of what happens, if the economy truly collapses, many will be/start homesteading, and many will pass away due to their complete reliance on the economic infrastructure (i.e. meat comes from Styrofoam packages, right??). Very unfortunate and sad, but it's what I imagine will happen.

This reminds me of myself when I first moved out here. WE got chickens right away of course. Once they started laying the kids couldn't wait to eat the eggs, I on the other hand was leery for some reason. I knew the eggs were good, I'd eaten fresh eggs at my grandparents place when I was young... Yet I was still leery. Eggs come from the store after all.

I knew I was being illogical and ate the eggs anyway of course. I haven't bought an egg in years, but I still laugh at myself for being so squeemish back then.

InvalidID · #47 01/05/12, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artificer

We must have vastly different definitions of "collapsed." Can you still buy most of what you need? Is inflation under 25% per year? Is unemployment under 25%-50%? I'm not saying the economy is fine, but it definitely hasn't collapsed.

Who is saying "nothing is wrong?"

Michael

Depends on who's numbers you believe. Realistically unemployment is over 20-25% and inflation is up closer to 20%.

ChanceTheRapids · #48 01/05/12, 02:47 PM

Agree with everything you said...except for the very end. Lots of people can homestead and still have cable. I actually know someone who lives in the middle of nowhere, but uses an iPad with 3g to access the internet and make purchases / sell products, for their homestead.

plowjockey · #49 01/05/12, 02:50 PM

Make no mistake about it.

If the U.S. economy truely "collapses" - when the Govt not only has no "money", it no longer even have the ability to print more - those who do not have, will take (by force if necessary), from those that do.

We will not become a nation of Homesteaders.

It will become Armegeddon, just like in the movies, only it's real.

It won't be a modern version of Grapes of Wrath.

ronbre · #50 01/05/12, 04:07 PM

with millions of people living in high rise buildings, i doubt it

pheasantplucker · #51 01/05/12, 04:35 PM

Our economy has quit being diversified. Very little in the way of manufacturing...now it's all about service. We can't as a society continue on this path forever. Something's gonna give. I doubt, given the "know how", the equipment, the motivation, the interest of the average person, that there will be a huge homesteading frenzie. Most people will be content to pay for it and let others do the real work. It's our societal mentality.

Ifistav · #52 01/05/12, 04:47 PM

I didn't read all the replies, but I don't think a total collapse would make everyone a homesteader. There just will be a different type of economy as someone else mentioned. Not everyone can homestead, nor should they. We still need doctors, teachers, military, etc.

Ifi

Home Harvest · #53 01/05/12, 05:08 PM

Well, if it happens it won't be due to everyone becoming homesteaders. Likely the opposite, jobs would be lost, business's gone, and people would need homestead to survive. They'd have a to take crash course to learn what we all are already working on. We'd all be the tenured professors, and could sell our knowledge.

If there is a true economic collapse I believe there will be 2 potential causes. First, I've read Kunstler's books, and I believe we could see fuel shortages in the next 50 years. Our entire economy is based on petroleum. We have gone to war over it. It will only get worse. We've had over 30 years to fix this. Every president since Carter has promised to wean us off foreign oil. Yeah, right.

The other possibility is the oen the OP mentions. Our economy is not only consumer based, it's built on perpetual growth. Spending more and more each and every year, or else more and more people spending. Either way, never ending growth is impossible to sustain. It would seem obvious that the gov't should encourage saving and frugality. We'd be stronger as a nation if everyone paid cash and had savings for healthcare and retirement. But thinking about the future doesn't serve those in charge today. So, we are encouraged to spend until we have nothing left, then spend until we can't borrow more, then the gov't will take money from those who still have some and let you keep right on spending. Simple, huh?

haypoint · #54 01/05/12, 06:00 PM

Homesteading or the homesteading-like stuff most of us on this site engage in?
Over the years, new folks on this board try to define the term, “ Homesteading”. No real answer. From what I’ve seen here there are lots of folks that fit into “hobby farmers”, but they’d bristle at the label. Even “hobby farmer” is a difficult term to nail down.
So, with that in mind, if lots and lots of folks began growing large vegetable gardens, raising a few chickens and milking a goat, the economy would do just fine. The places that sell garden seeds, bags of composted manure and Chinese digging shovels would have a franchise in every town.
The Tractor Supply Company would replace K Mart. Trucks would be lined up on Saturday morning as everyone loaded up their chicken feed, hog feed and goat chow.
With the higher mortality of animals on new, inexperienced homesteads, we’d see a spike in the demand and cost of chicks, calves, lambs and feeder pigs.
Whenever anyone here asks, “Is it cheaper to buy my hay or buy the equipment and do it myself? “or “ Can I grow open pollinated field corn so I don’t have to buy it?” The answer is that for most things, it’ll cost you more to grow your own.
During the Alaskan Gold Rush, more money was made selling equipment and supplies to the miners than was ever panned. I expect a big move to homesteading would result in the same.
As each of us move closer to becoming self-sufficient, each step is costly in labor and equipment. As an example, let’s pretend I want to have a cheap source of meat. I can afford rabbits. I can scrounge material for pens, but I’ll have to replace them every few years, because rabbits chew stuff and urine rusts iron fast. Then I need a building to store the hay used to feed in the winter. Then I need a big rototiller to grow a field of corn and soybeans. In most areas I need a watering system, pump, hoses, etc. I’ll need a big canner and lots of jars to preserve the meat. I’ll need to raise a lot of rabbits so I can barter for mineral salt and the chemicals needed to tan the hides. I’ll spend countless hours pulling weeds, cutting and drying hay, hand shelling corn and then cranking the mill that cracks the corn. If I don’t count my labor, and I should, I’ll have some home grown rabbit meat for about the cost of an Angus New York Strip at the local Butcher Shop. But I’ll know where it came from.
But we better hope there isn’t a big move to homesteading. Most of the land in this country wouldn’t support a homestead. Suddenly, your little slice of heaven will become in great demand. The value will shoot way up and you’ll be taxed off your place. Plenty of folks with deeper pockets than yours will be “living the good life” on the ground you once thought of as home.
The “Back to the Land” movement of the 1970s resulted in the sale of millions of copies of Mother Earth News, a sales explosion for Johnny’s Seeds and some tie-dyed Peace tee shirts. Little else remains, ‘cept the drawer full of canning jar lids.

City Bound · #55 01/05/12, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highlands

Actually, while I agree in general with what you had said that is a bad example. I can produce all the energy we need to thrive in the form of wood heat, solar heat, hydro-electric power and bio-diesel. I can even manufacture all the tools needed to make these energies and I can make the tools to make those tools.

On the other hand, building a computer is beyond me. I can design and build it but I can't manufacture the chips at the level we have today. They are a delicious luxury.

Still, I agree with you that it won't happen. And jolly good.

it is great that you are making all your own energy.
I was thinking of OP. If a person is not making do from scratch, then they are dependent on an economy beyond the nature of their own land and themself. I do not see how one person could find enough wood to make charcoal, to run a furnace, to smelt metal to make his or her own tools, and then still have enough to fuel all their other needs if the fuel comes only from their own land, let alone finding enough ores to even make a tool from their own land. Light for the night is a major issue that a great deal of human enconomy focuses on. I can not see how people could make enough light fuel for themselves, they would not have enough animal fat, wax, or olive oil to get by for a year without ether keeping their lives very small or trading.

if a person can find copper on their land, turn it into wire, then find all the other raw materials that they need to make a hydro-generator, a wood stove, bricks, nails, rope, cut, lumber, bullets, raw materials for cloth, and whatever else they need to exist then they would be free from human economy. I just do not see people living a modern lifestyle doing all that.

City Bound · #56 01/05/12, 08:53 PM

haypoint, and if most people can not afford land, then we go right back to some social system like feudalism.

Living the good life, is a great book. Those people were able to break out of the rat race for the most part, but they were still stuck in it in a lot of ways. They had to take on business ventures to pay their taxes and insurance, even though they made almost all of their food.

plowjockey · #57 01/05/12, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

Countries where the vast majority of the populace are "homesteaders" - in other words, attempt to seek out their own food, clothing and shelter - are called Third World countries.

LOL, how true.

julieq · #58 01/05/12, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olivehill

Nah. Have you ever built a homestead or farm from the ground up? Plenty of purchases to be made. It'd just shift to different areas of spending/consuming. Macy's might go out of business but TSC, farm supply stores, etc would be booming!

Exactly! I just ran a year end statement of our business and personal accounts and we spent a HUGE amount of money on 'homesteading' in 2011. I don't think the local economy will collapse if more families spend the same amount we do for the same items we do.

I worry more about the excess spending at the federal government level...

Jennifer L. · #59 01/06/12, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rambler

People have spent 200+ years in this country running away from the wagon train, sod house, homesteading lifestyle.

I'm more of a farmer than homesteader, but I love the life.... Can't imagine the pain of living every day in a crowded city, no room, ick.

but, I'm very much in the minority, as are you. Homesteader lifestyle appeals to many people in a wistful, storybook way. But when you hand them a fork or a hoe, they _quickly_ want to rebuild their city!!!!!!

So, no, it's not really possible.

It would clobber the heck out of our current ecconomy, which is to say it would destroy our govt. You all do realize the ecconomy _is_ the govt? They control the ecconomy, and they lose control of it during times of depression. they can easily control things and raise taxes with inflation and intrest rates. But when we all stop spending, they lose control.

Now, another ecconomy/ govt would shape up and take it's place, so I'm not saying it would be a bad thing, but certainly if the masses went to a homesteader type of living, it would drastically change the ecconomy/ govt.

Now, could we even find land and equipment to outfit everyone with a homestead? Lot of people live in less thsan 2000 sq ft apartments/townhomes/condos, we spread them all out onto an acre to 5 per family, and things are gonna get exciting from an ecconomy standpoint..... What do you think land costs would go to?

Then - how many here really _are_ living the homesteader lifestyle????? Hummm? This site is to talk about it, and many are doing a little bit of it. But - when most on here talk about getting rid of their land line because they get internet through their cable company......

If you are living in an area that has cable access, you are not exacly roughing it and abandoning a consumer-based ecconimy!

--->Paul

Best Post of the Year.

Jennifer

haypoint · #60 01/06/12, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by City Bound

haypoint, and if most people can not afford land, then we go right back to some social system like feudalism.

Living the good life, is a great book. Those people were able to break out of the rat race for the most part, but they were still stuck in it in a lot of ways. They had to take on business ventures to pay their taxes and insurance, even though they made almost all of their food.

Right now there are plenty of people willing to pay thousands of dollars an acre for crop land. We are already in a time when most people can't afford to buy enough land to homestead. But as people move towards homesteading, common folk are driven off their land by the economics; we may see that mechanization has drastically reduced the need for the Lord of the Land to put up with substance farmers.
If the small farmer continues to be less viable, surely the even smaller homesteader can’t compete.
Anyone remember Helen and Scott Nearing? Leaders in the “back to the land” movement. Wrote several books so others could learn their skills.
But, in reality, they made their money selling books and giving talks. When people stopped by their house, they put them to work: learning the skill of weeding a vegetable garden. Anyone willing to work for free all day, got a bowl of vegetable soup.