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10/27/11, 01:38 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: sc
Posts: 3,364
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Last edited by tailwagging; 10/27/11 at 02:23 PM.
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10/27/11, 02:11 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Idaho
Posts: 4,332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morningstar
I can't believe any sane person would support an organization like PETA if they actually knew what they were "about".
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No sane person does. And it is a very short trip to their brother organizations, HSUS and ALF, which are known domestic terrorist groups.
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10/27/11, 02:46 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Home Harvest
Intelligent debate it is then, you are entitled to your opinion regarding the issue of circuses and animal parks. Let's however look at the legal application of the bill of rights to non-human species. It is inapropriate and a gross misuse of this revered document. Put aside the issue of circuses and animal parks, can't you at least agree the animals don't have constitutional rights?
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Why not? We essentially give illegals the same rights (and more depending on the state) and they can't vote. Children are given legal representation in the court system and they can't vote. I don't see a problem with it.
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10/27/11, 02:49 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: sc
Posts: 3,364
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Raven12 are you vegan?
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10/27/11, 02:49 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heritagefarm
I'm all for animal welfare - it's a good thing. If PETA wants to step in on issues such as CAFOs, I might actually join them. But only because there are solid reasons why CAFOs should not exist; not because I simply think, along with my peers, that they should not exist. And this is a major problem with PETA thinking: There is very little science backing their claims up, it is mostly emotional opinion. Furthermore, without us, many domesticated animals would suffer. And without domesticated animals, many of us humans would suffer as well, such as anemic people who rely on the high iron content of red meat, and many poor people who rely on them as a means to pay their bills. Certainly there is animal abuse, and I can't say I like it any more than you, yet aren't there far larger problems in the world than whether or not Fifi gets put in a kennel at night?
As for constitutional rights for animals, who are they going to vote for? Who's going to pay their taxes? What about wild animals; every time an owl kills a mouse, fine it? Nature is a gigantic killing machine; it is the circle of life and there is no getting around that. Coyotes kills small, sick animals and will eat each other as well.
Does the fact that this is not the wild make any difference? It is still real life, and animals have their uses - they cannot be above us. We use them for shoes, for art, for industrial purposes, for food, for money, for enjoyment, and lots else. There are entire chain stores and small shops devoted to nothing but using animals skin!
www.tandyleatherfactory.com
Who can deny that animals skin can be turned into something of sheer beauty and functionality and durability, something that is extremely hard to achieve via man's Inventions of toxic, environmentally degrading plastics, etc?
There is an entire magazine devoted to nothing but how to heal your land, yourself, and your customers and make money, all at the same time, with livestock:
www.stockmangrassfarmer.net
This is reality. PETA rarely finds reality as good as this.
Do the animals get guns? Do the sick ones get free vet care? Do they get insurance? Who teaches them to drive? Why doesn't DADDY pay any attention to them?! 
Does the whole world suddenly revolve around animals? It cannot, for a simple reason: God said we are above them. Any means of placing animals on an equal footing is, well, not only stupid but unbiblical. |
My take is - at least PETA is doing something about it. There are tons of special interest groups that decide the course of our lives every day on the federal, state, and local level and yet, people get upset about PETA trying to save some animals. The hate comes off as blind brainwashed fear.
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10/27/11, 02:56 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven12
Why not? We essentially give illegals the same rights (and more depending on the state) and they can't vote. Children are given legal representation in the court system and they can't vote. I don't see a problem with it.
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Children and illegals are HUMAN. The constitution was written to provide human beings with legal rights, not animals.
So would you like to see all pets freed? And how is one animal given more rights than others? Cattle are not allowed to murder, but Orcas are since they are meat eaters? What about the meat that they wanna eat....don't they have rights too? I doubt too many tigers would be happy on a vegan diet.
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10/27/11, 03:17 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tailwagging
Raven12 are you vegan?
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If you would like to start a thread with that topic, then I would be more than happy to join in. I don't see how that has anything to do with Orcas and the legal system.
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10/27/11, 03:19 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbadosSheep
Children and illegals are HUMAN. The constitution was written to provide human beings with legal rights, not animals.
So would you like to see all pets freed? And how is one animal given more rights than others? Cattle are not allowed to murder, but Orcas are since they are meat eaters? What about the meat that they wanna eat....don't they have rights too? I doubt too many tigers would be happy on a vegan diet.
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Actually, the constitution was written to protect property holding white males.
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10/27/11, 03:42 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: sc
Posts: 3,364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven12
If you would like to start a thread with that topic, then I would be more than happy to join in. I don't see how that has anything to do with Orcas and the legal system.
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I asked so that I could better understand your view.
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10/27/11, 03:42 PM
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In Remembrance
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,844
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If you know of someone with an old horse they want to dispose of, suggest they wait until midnight and tied it in the front yard of the local PETA president.
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10/27/11, 03:54 PM
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Waste of bandwidth
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: OK
Posts: 10,618
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I have yet to see a story that says that this suit has actually been filed, let alone one that says there's any possibility of the U.S. District Court in San Diego actually trying it.
But, again, PETA already has accomplished what it set out to do: People are discussing animal rights.
Personally, I like it a bit better when they post near-naked girlies outside of fast food restaurants.
That situation also helps me to examine my morality, perhaps not in the manner they had hoped.
__________________
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Less barking! More wagging!
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10/27/11, 03:58 PM
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The cream separator guy
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Southern MO
Posts: 3,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven12
My take is - at least PETA is doing something about it. There are tons of special interest groups that decide the course of our lives every day on the federal, state, and local level and yet, people get upset about PETA trying to save some animals. The hate comes off as blind brainwashed fear.
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Thank-you for not addressing any of my actual points. 
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10/27/11, 04:08 PM
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In Remembrance
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,844
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"With out human intervention Most of the animals will be extent(SP) in a few years. All the dogs and cats would starve along with cattle and horses and goats. A lot of people think that all they need is grass to eat but if people stop growing grass for pasture and baling it into hay they will starve. Some people think that there are enough rabbits an such to feed any dog but there isn't. Deer would starve if people stopped hunting them and quit feeding them. But I guess they think that is fine. "
The same can be said with the human population.
One of my favorite novels is Make Room, Make Room. It was made into a movie titled Soylent Green. When the book was republished it adopted the new title.
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10/27/11, 04:11 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,853
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HeritageFarm,
I did respond to similar comments in previous posts -
"I'm all for animal welfare - it's a good thing."
"As for constitutional rights for animals, who are they going to vote for? Who's going to pay their taxes? What about wild animals; every time an owl kills a mouse, fine it? Nature is a gigantic killing machine; it is the circle of life and there is no getting around that. Coyotes kills small, sick animals and will eat each other as well."
The rest of it just seems like your own personal marketing tool.
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10/27/11, 04:28 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tailwagging
I asked so that I could better understand your view.
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I'm borderline pescetarian. I follow the belief that all life is sacred. It is very similar to a local Native American belief. There have been multiple posts quoting the bible about where animals stand in our worldly hierarchy. I believe that we have been given a responsibility to treat animals with respect and dignity. We are all part of the circle of life. People may think that a creature doesn't deserve the same honor as humans but if that one creature disappears it affects us all.
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10/27/11, 04:38 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: KY
Posts: 113
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This lawsuit, in my opinion, is clearly meant to draw attention to PETA's cause. As others have pointed point, it has served this purpose well. I would be very surprised if anyone actually believed the orcas would be granted constitutional rights.
I am not a PETA supporter, even though I am very much for animal rights. I do not support places such as Sea World, circuses, or most zoos. I am also, however, a supporter of responsible animal husbandry, which I assume most HT members practice. This may seem a conflict to some, but it is a perfectly reasonable stance in my mind.
I only recently registered for HT, but have frequented the forums for several months. There is a wealth of useful information to be found here. I have to say that I have been surprised and disappointed at the negative comments and mocking aimed at PETA and PETA supporters in this thread. While I do not support the organization myself I do not look down on those who do and do not question their sanity. I'm sure that I hold beliefs that others believe are crazy, and I'm sure that I'd find some of your beliefs pretty off-the-wall as well.
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10/27/11, 04:53 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,325
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The constitution says "All men are created equal", That by itself is often seen as a bit of a stretch; but that document does not say anything about whales.
Really, get a grip. Whales = 
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10/27/11, 05:06 PM
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The cream separator guy
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Southern MO
Posts: 3,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven12
I'm borderline pescetarian. I follow the belief that all life is sacred. It is very similar to a local Native American belief. There have been multiple posts quoting the bible about where animals stand in our worldly hierarchy. I believe that we have been given a responsibility to treat animals with respect and dignity. We are all part of the circle of life. People may think that a creature doesn't deserve the same honor as humans but if that one creature disappears it affects us all.
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Yes, I am on that belief, too. However, Native American's still ate meat. Just with more respect than us white people.
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10/27/11, 05:13 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: sc
Posts: 3,364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven12
I'm borderline pescetarian. I follow the belief that all life is sacred. It is very similar to a local Native American belief. There have been multiple posts quoting the bible about where animals stand in our worldly hierarchy. I believe that we have been given a responsibility to treat animals with respect and dignity. We are all part of the circle of life. People may think that a creature doesn't deserve the same honor as humans but if that one creature disappears it affects us all.
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I was raised Lacto-ovo-vegetarian. when I gave birth to my first son I was so anemic that I had to have a blood transfusion. I could easily go back and live on soy taste wise, but as for health I am very distrustful of GMOs that they use now days.
I agree we must respect life, that is why I raise my own food and why I ask forgiveness for taking the life and thank them.
I grew up in San Diego and went to sea world many times. there is no why you can make a Orca do anything it doesn't want to.
I also firmly believe in the animal human bond.
which PeTA wants to take away. this is why I distrust their works/claims and am against anything they do.
Last edited by tailwagging; 10/27/11 at 05:18 PM.
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10/27/11, 05:17 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: sc
Posts: 3,364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan
This lawsuit, in my opinion, is clearly meant to draw attention to PETA's cause. As others have pointed point, it has served this purpose well. I would be very surprised if anyone actually believed the orcas would be granted constitutional rights.
I am not a PETA supporter, even though I am very much for animal rights. I do not support places such as Sea World, circuses, or most zoos. I am also, however, a supporter of responsible animal husbandry, which I assume most HT members practice. This may seem a conflict to some, but it is a perfectly reasonable stance in my mind.
I only recently registered for HT, but have frequented the forums for several months. There is a wealth of useful information to be found here. I have to say that I have been surprised and disappointed at the negative comments and mocking aimed at PETA and PETA supporters in this thread. While I do not support the organization myself I do not look down on those who do and do not question their sanity. I'm sure that I hold beliefs that others believe are crazy, and I'm sure that I'd find some of your beliefs pretty off-the-wall as well.
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you are for animal welfare not animal rights there is a BIG difference
if you are for animal rights then you would be against animal husbandry, pets and feeding wild birds.
Last edited by tailwagging; 10/27/11 at 05:30 PM.
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