PETA lawsuit seeks to expand animal rights

tinknal · #**241** 10/29/11, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oregon woodsmok

[[[.....this blind hatred towards a group.....]]]]]

PETA has worked long and hard and put a lot of effort into earning that dislike. PETA has seriously damaged a lot of people both emotionally and financially. PETA members can hardly expect to be admired and cherished. They act in an evil fashion, so they are perceived as being evil. They have bad intentions, and make no secret of it. There is nothing about them that can be liked.

Just like the Taliban. Think about it. The Taliban was a legal entity. If they had just minded their own business they would likely still hold power in Afghanistan. Instead, they choose to harbor and support Al Quida, an illegal organization.

Likewise, Peta, a legal organization harbors and supports illegal terrorist organizations (ALF, ELF).

Peta needs to be destroyed. Plain and simple. They are an evil entity unworthy of normal human consideration.

Jonathan · #**242** 10/29/11, 08:03 PM

Oh, I also wanted to add that for anyone who feels that I'm trying to tell you how you should do things I apologize. I've tried to make it clear throughout that I don't expect anyone else to have the same value that I have or do things the same way that I do them. Even if I manage to find methods that fit my values and ideas perfectly it doesn't mean those methods would work well for others. Anyone who is successful at what they are doing and are happy with their process should continue with that process that has served them well, even if someone like me is trying to find an alternative approach.

arabian knight · #**243** 10/29/11, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan

If I do come to that conclusion through my own mistakes, then I'll be ok with that. Until that time, however, I plan to stick to my values and try to find methods that allow me to have as little impact as possible.

Through your won mistakes.
OK you make a mistake, what does that say then when the mistake you made involves the death of said animal?
Are you not concerned about animal life that much that you much fail first then at what cost?
The animal dies.
That is not IMO being very concerned about the animal itself.
You then have admitted that you make mistakes.
We ALL make mistakes, but try our best to minimize the animals endangerment.
Good fences, good shelter, good food and water. Never just to Let the animals fend for themselves.
Humans when they take animals in their CARE that is what they are to be doing, CARE for them.
A good steward of Animal Husbandry, starts with the person first that has the animals to begin with.
Some good reading would be a good book on animal husbandry, IMO. A very good read, for those just starting out.

Jonathan · #**244** 10/29/11, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabian knight

Through your won mistakes.
OK you make a mistake, what does that say then when the mistake you made involves the death of said animal?
Are you not concerned about animal life that much that you much fail first then at what cost?
The animal dies.
That is not IMO being very concerned about the animal itself.
You then have admitted that you make mistakes.
We ALL make mistakes, but try our best to minimize the animals endangerment.
Good fences, good shelter, good food and water. Never just to Let the animals fend for themselves.
Humans when they take animals in their CARE that is what they are to be doing, CARE for them.
A good steward of Animal Husbandry, starts with the person first that has the animals to begin with.
Some good reading would be a good book on animal husbandry, IMO. A very good read, for those just starting out.

I'm sure that I'll make mistakes that cost an animal its life, and those are the mistakes that I dread the most. I plan to do a lot of reading and talking to others before developing my own plans. I'm sure that my plans regarding chickens will change between now and the time I actually have chickens on my property. I can only discuss my views as they stand today, I can't predict what they will be down the road once I've considered information from various sources. I don't plan to just make something up and see if it works. I do plan to question every piece of information I receive and combine multiple approaches with my own ideas until I find something that works for me.

tinknal · #**245** 10/29/11, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan

I plan to do a lot of reading and talking to others before developing my own plans.

Talking to others is what you are doing now. Are you listening?

salmonslayer · #**246** 10/29/11, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven12

I didn't realize that being honest was considered bullying and snarky. Again, if there was a point relevant to the topic at hand, then I have been more than happy to answer it. Otherwise, I don't see the point in wasting my time.

These are specific questions that speak directly to your position and are asked out of true curiosity. How are they not relevant unless you cant answer them? If you cant thats fine but dont play the hypocrite.

If you want to talk about caged animals, what about all the dogs and cats in this country kept in small urban lots or apartments? My dogs enjoy free range of our farm, have no chains or kennels and they life rich full lives...do yours? Is it my right or yours to dictate that folks without XXXX amount of property cant have a dog or cat? Would it be just better to slaughter them all? How about seeing eye dogs or other service animals? Are they not indentured servants? What about the military dogs I served with in Iraq that hunted booby traps and IEDs? They werent volunteers risking their lives for a cause they believed in where they? How about folks who feed wild birds? Are they not creating a false sense of entitlement and a reliance on made made food stuffs? If you equate fishing with murder as PETA does in one of their campaigns, would not killing a spider or mosquito not be the same thing?

These questions are all relevant to PETAs stance on issues. Hardly irrelevant.

MO_cows · #**247** 10/29/11, 10:14 PM

Jonathon, I respect your for hanging in there and explaining your views when a lot of people would have gotten in a huff because no one agrees with them.

Please don't disregard the years and years of first-hand experience and knowledge that is being shared with you. People aren't telling you stuff you don't want to hear just to argue with you or to ruin your day. They are telling you the truth, they have lived it.

You don't seem to grasp that animals are very different from people and don't have the same needs, thought processes and feelings. They have feelings, yes, but not human feelings. You are taking things from the human perspective and applying them to animals. Anthromorphism I believe it is called. You seem to think closing up a chicken coop at night is an unacceptable loss of freedom to the chickens. Well did you ever think that from the chicken's point of view it is security and a good night's sleep? That's why they willingly go in every night.

Good luck in your endeavors. And get the cat a rabies vaccination even if she doesn't ask you for it!

Old Vet · #**248** 10/29/11, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO_cows

Jonathon, I respect your for hanging in there and explaining your views when a lot of people would have gotten in a huff because no one agrees with them.

Please don't disregard the years and years of first-hand experience and knowledge that is being shared with you. People aren't telling you stuff you don't want to hear just to argue with you or to ruin your day. They are telling you the truth, they have lived it.

You don't seem to grasp that animals are very different from people and don't have the same needs, thought processes and feelings. They have feelings, yes, but not human feelings. You are taking things from the human perspective and applying them to animals. Anthromorphism I believe it is called. You seem to think closing up a chicken coop at night is an unacceptable loss of freedom to the chickens. Well did you ever think that from the chicken's point of view it is security and a good night's sleep? That's why they willingly go in every night.

Good luck in your endeavors. And get the cat a rabies vaccination even if she doesn't ask you for it!

I have 2 horses each night they go to their pen and expect to be fed and hayed so that they can enjoy a good night in the safety of the pen. In the daylight hours I let them roam my 20 acre yard with my neighbors blessing with no fence or other obstacle to keep them from going just anywhere. They have been doing this for 4 months and have never left my yard. But at night they go to their pen on their own and wait for me to feed them and hay them for the night and complain if the gate is left open. Each animal has a different set of rules they live by and a different personality of its own.

Lizza · #**249** 10/29/11, 11:43 PM

Jonathan I too hope you stay, you have been great about writing back to all of us, falling a little short of admitting that the years and years of experience probably out weighs your ideas about how you think it will be but we'll get over it

Before you try your chicken experience, please consider that you will be sacrificing the chickens life for your ideals. You will wake up in the middle of the night to your chicken being viciously killed with their heads ripped off, screaming, in that moment I'm not so sure you will feel very happy with your decision to not protect your chickens and I hope too many chickens must not die needlessly for your ideals. It isn't pretty by the way, the coons leave most of the chicken, ripping off their heads and reaching down their necks to pull out their insides and leaving the rest. They can also reach their paws through fencing and pull out the chicken one part at a time, it is an ugly world out their Jonathan and those animals will be under your care and they will die if you don't do your job. Just something to think about.

As to putting human emotions on animals, I wonder if all the movies and cartoons has effected part of this? Children and even adults have nothing to compare the movies with talking cows, pigs, and cats with human emotions, they themselves have never spent any time with animals and maybe this seems plausible to them? That animals are like humans? I don't know, just throwing it out there. I have read Joel Salatin say that for some people it is their religion and I do believe for some people it has gotten to that.

stormwalker · #**250** 10/29/11, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morningstar

Jonathan I too hope you stay, you have been great about writing back to all of us, falling a little short of admitting that the years and years of experience probably out weighs your ideas about how you think it willI have read Joel Salatin say that for some people it is their religion and I do believe for some people it has gotten to that.

I might add- It is my religion.
I abhor the idea that an animal should experience extended periods of time of fear and pain, so some can distance themselves from the fact that they are carnivores.

Fat Charlie · #**251** 10/30/11, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morningstar

As to putting human emotions on animals, I wonder if all the movies and cartoons has effected part of this? Children and even adults have nothing to compare the movies with talking cows, pigs, and cats with human emotions, they themselves have never spent any time with animals and maybe this seems plausible to them?

I hope movies aren't teaching people that animals are just people with four legs. I've only ever had house dogs, and I believe they have feelings and emotions. They aren't simply machines made out of meat and living according to binary responses to stimuli and I love them dearly. They deserve to be treated well, but they're still just dogs.

Lizza · #**252** 10/30/11, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormwalker

I might add- It is my religion.
I abhor the idea that an animal should experience extended periods of time of fear and pain, so some can distance themselves from the fact that they are carnivores.

I guess I was thinking along the lines of animal worship but do certainly agree with you. Animals should be cared for and I am very concerned about animal welfare, so much so that I go through all the hassle of raising our own.

stormwalker · #**253** 10/30/11, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morningstar

I guess I was thinking along the lines of animal worship but do certainly agree with you. Animals should be cared for and I am very concerned about animal welfare, so much so that I go through all the hassle of raising our own (full disclosure, right now we are buying from fellow farmers because we haven't had the time or space to deal with our meat, we have raised chickens, pigs, sheep, and goats for butcher).

No, I don't worship animals.That includes our species.
I think respect and kindness is paramount in dealing with all we encounter.

Fat Charlie · #**254** 10/30/11, 09:16 AM

I wouldn't call it worship, but there's a spiritual connection with animals that you are raising to kill in order to feed yourself and your family.

RuffusWI · #**255** 10/30/11, 09:25 AM

Well that said about Consitutional rights for animals.....well I'm going to go check my trap line....

Tricky Grama · #**256** 10/30/11, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven12

I didn't realize that being honest was considered bullying and snarky. Again, if there was a point relevant to the topic at hand, then I have been more than happy to answer it. Otherwise, I don't see the point in wasting my time.

Allow the rest of us that same consideration.

Tricky Grama · #**257** 10/30/11, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forerunner

I find it painfully ironic that, in a world where a man's rights are being depleted by the minute, there is a growing emotional sentiment to convey what has been all but lost to mankind...... into the animal world.

Truly "there is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action".

Funny though, the hypocrisy.... it has been proven that plants are every bit as sentient as animals. It has even been shown that the elements have memory and obvious radiance.

Those who insist upon the madness of placing mankind at the bottom of the rights chain would do well to run a dagger through their own hearts before they make use of one more bit of helpless substance outside of themselves.

PETA lawsuit seeks to expand animal rights - Homesteading Questions

Tricky Grama · #**258** 10/30/11, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

Of course not. The closed mind gathers no wisdom.

Since I am on ignore, if you agree with it quote me so little-miss-knows-everything can see it.

I'll quote it! But...how many of us ARE on ignore...?
There is none so blind as those who will not see...

Tricky Grama · #**259** 10/30/11, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarbadosSheep

so what if this dog you owned decides it wants to be free and chooses to eat your neighbor's goats since that's an easy thing for it to catch? Your ignorance caused a neighbor to lose a valuable animal because you chose to not contain your own animal. Dogs are not intelligent to make a decision about where they would like to live and the consequences of that decision. They are too domesticated to live free and it would be cruel to expect them to do so. If you are willing to let your little doggie run free, do it a big favor and put a bullet in it's head before it comes on to my property and I have to do it instead.

Wait! Wait, according to Jonathan, he does NOT own the dog...

Maverick_mg · #**260** 10/30/11, 11:26 AM

this is a little off topic now, but I remember hearing a few years ago that pepsi was one of the biggest peta funders that they have. I always thought that for a group so upset about how the chickens for KFC are killed, they sure don't have a problem spending the money given to them by the death of said chickens. Pepsi owns so many companies and fast food restaurants that, IMOP, have practices that go against what they stand for, yet they still accept money from them.