PETA lawsuit seeks to expand animal rights

Jonathon, this is what I have been doing my whole life. You are new to the forum, and apparently new to this lifestyle. All the internal struggle and moral conundrums that you are now dealing with are old hat to me.

This is the BTDT attitude that (hopefully) you will attain someday. You have a couple of options. Either you embrace the lifestyle, warts and all, or you abandon it in smug satisfaction that your moral superiority rises above all the ignorance and brutality while living the lie that 99 percent of the population currently abides in.

Come on, Buddy, be part of the 1 percent!

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Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent

You are crediting a cat with skills of logic and decision making that they simply don't possess. If your "free to choose her own lifestyle" cat decides to go feral, what about all the wild things that will become her prey? A house cat is not part of the natural ecosystem. The baby rabbits, birds and other prey she would live on takes food out of the mouths of other predators who DO belong there.

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It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with the simple pleasures and to be cheerful and have courage when things go wrong.
Laura Ingalls Wilder

I find it painfully ironic that, in a world where a man's rights are being depleted by the minute, there is a growing emotional sentiment to convey what has been all but lost to mankind...... into the animal world.

Truly "there is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action".

Funny though, the hypocrisy.... it has been proven that plants are every bit as sentient as animals. It has even been shown that the elements have memory and obvious radiance.

Those who insist upon the madness of placing mankind at the bottom of the rights chain would do well to run a dagger through their own hearts before they make use of one more bit of helpless substance outside of themselves.

__________________
“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

You do understand? We, as a species, are predators?
My view of ethical treatment of animals is--We should kill them with the least pain and fear possible.

It's not your views that I have a problem with. It's the flawed reasoning behind them that I disagree with.

You seem to want to live a 'no impact" life. This is just not possible. By all means, do what you can, but lower your expectations or the angst will destroy your dreams.

__________________
Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent

I didn't realize that being honest was considered bullying and snarky. Again, if there was a point relevant to the topic at hand, then I have been more than happy to answer it. Otherwise, I don't see the point in wasting my time.

I don't have television. I am too busy for it and don't see the need. I get my knowledge from other sources such as books, research, and personal experience.

By the way, I didn't even view your links. I don't care.

Of course not. The closed mind gathers no wisdom.

Since I am on ignore, if you agree with it quote me so little-miss-knows-everything can see it.

__________________
Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent

If you are going to adopt chickens as egg-layers, then you owe it to them to protect them. You would allow them their freedom outside at night if they so "chose", when THEY DO NOT KNOW the danger? Most animals are not really fond of medical care when they are injured - would you allow them their "right" to deny it, not understanding the objective? Sometimes toddlers wish to run into a busy street, but it does not mean it is their right to do so - in fact it is the duty of the parent to deny the toddler's wishes.

It's admirable that you are considering the experience of the creatures you wish on your homestead, and I'd rather see people like you around than people who treat animals as inanimate objects and never consider their stress. People here tend to provide a decent life for their livestock and then give them a humane end, and your concerns seem somewhat similar. I'm just really curious by your stance here.

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Wise enough to know I'll never be wise enough to know it all

You are trying to explain to people that actually produce their own food why your system will work when you have no experience with it in action. You have no husbandry skills, no apparent hunting skills, and have no apparent real life experience with any animal, be it domesticated or wild (besides this one stray cat that came to you). You rely on other people to take care of you and if you can't fit these few chickens in with your ideal your solution is to just keep letting other people take care of you. You have your views, I get it, check, but they have NO foundation in REAL life, it just looks good on paper to you, which is just a wee bit on the frustrating side. I have no idea your age but it is like talking to my teenagers and them telling me how life works I read a bumper sticker once that said raising teenagers is like stapling jello to a tree and amen, that is what keeps flashing through my mind the more you try to explain these ideas of yours, you will have better luck cooking yourself up some jello and see how that stapling goes.

Ok, I give up now

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Idleness is leisure gone to seed

so what if this dog you owned decides it wants to be free and chooses to eat your neighbor's goats since that's an easy thing for it to catch? Your ignorance caused a neighbor to lose a valuable animal because you chose to not contain your own animal. Dogs are not intelligent to make a decision about where they would like to live and the consequences of that decision. They are too domesticated to live free and it would be cruel to expect them to do so. If you are willing to let your little doggie run free, do it a big favor and put a bullet in it's head before it comes on to my property and I have to do it instead.

I wonder what the posters thoughts on our animals. Those that are not for food. Such as raising a calf up for milk, a goat up for milk.
Say a Llama or Alpaca for wool etc. I wonder then if fences and buildings would be provided?
Or if other types of pets were involved other then a cat?
A horse, or would a dog be able to "just wonder around the woods fending for itself?
Such ideas of my, i have to bite my tongue or I would be gone in a minute.

OK, My chicken are free ranged 24/7, inside our property perimeter fence. I have a LGD to protect them. I picked a breed that broods so we get replacements that are hands off raised.
I feed them some grains to keep them close and live where bugs are almost year around. so it can be done but I have been VERY VERY with a side order of VERY lucky.

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He who thinks he knows, doesn't. He who knows he doesn't know, knows.~ Joseph Campbell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeMrK...AE7062ADE5A19C

I thought I was on Ignore with Tinknal too after last year as She doesn't seem to want to look at any of the facts that I have posted , just the " Truth " from PITA .
Care to share the titles of some of the books You read with Us , as some of Us do have an open mind and will look at all sides of an issue .

Did anyone beside Me notice that Jonathan just joined , and 30 of His 31 post are in this discussion ?
Bandit

Jonathon, I know you are taking a beating here, but please stay. Learn. We are not uncaring souls, but so many of us have seen so much that we think that you should automatically understand what we know. Go to the livestock forums, read, learn.

When you can snatch the pebble from my hand you are ready.......

__________________
Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent

And to see the Lighter side of PETA
I know it's old news , but still worth it LOL
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/pow...lide-deer.html

[[[.....this blind hatred towards a group.....]]]]]

PETA has worked long and hard and put a lot of effort into earning that dislike. PETA has seriously damaged a lot of people both emotionally and financially. PETA members can hardly expect to be admired and cherished. They act in an evil fashion, so they are perceived as being evil. They have bad intentions, and make no secret of it. There is nothing about them that can be liked.

It has occurred to me that perhaps I've made the mistake of assuming that one element of my beliefs that I thought was apparent may not be. I think I should back up and address this element of my view of animal rights. Maybe it will help clear up some of the misunderstanding.

I'm not under the illusion that I can live a no impact life. Even if I were to become vegan, there is an impact to other living creatures in farming or even in foraging. I do seek to minimize my impact on other living creatures, but clearly I cannot eliminate it.

If I were out in the forest and came face to face with a bear that was intent on killing me (unlikely I know, but it was an easy example) I would be forced to make a choice. I have the right to live. The bear has the right to live. Either I give up my right to live or I deprive the bear of its right to live. Most likely I would choose my life over that of the bear. In the situation it would be impossible for the rights of a living creature (me or the bear) to be infringed upon.

Throughout life there are many similar choices that have to be made. Most of them are not so straight forward. Would I be willing to deprive a Red-Tailed Hawk its right to live so that I could eat eggs? Would I be willing to deprive a chicken the right to be out at in the yard at night so that I could have eggs to eat? I might choose yes to one and no the other. I might choose yes to both, or to neither.

My point is that supporting animal rights does not mean I will never deprive an animal of those rights. I try to be conscience of the decisions I make that deprive others of their rights. Sometimes after reflection I decide that I've made the wrong choice. Sometimes I choose to deprive another creature of its rights in order to gain some small convenience that was not worth the price.

I do have a lot to learn, which is why I'm here. Its also the reason I plan to stick around, because I know there is a lot of useful knowledge here. I am not one, however, to simply do something because that is the way its done or because someone tells me it has to be done that way, especially when talking about something that may go against my values. I will take in the information I get from various places and try to use all of that information to find a method that is in line with my values. Often I fail. Sometimes I realize the tried and true method is going to work best for me. Sometimes I find solutions that work better for me, even though they might not work well for others. This isn't the most efficient process, but it works for me. If we have this same conversation years from now I may have decided by then that the only way to make this work is to follow the traditional methods. I may say that all of the advice I was given was right, and my ideas were wrong. If I do come to that conclusion through my own mistakes, then I'll be ok with that. Until that time, however, I plan to stick to my values and try to find methods that allow me to have as little impact as possible.

Evidently that is an exceedingly narrow band of "relevance."

Yeah, I never intended to get caught up in such a controversial conversation. My first post was in this thread, even though it wasn't the reason that I registered. I suppose its a good way to get my feet wet, but it isn't the method I would have normally chosen.