BT Monsanto vs. Organic non GMO

Paquebot · #61 10/21/11, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyd

Bt corn can be sprayed the same as any other corn. You can hit it with atrazine, you can hit it with 24D if you like a challenge, you can buy a triple stack variety which incorporates pest and herbcide resistance.

Repeat, Bt corn is just as vulnerable to herbicides as any other tender plant. RR corn is just as vulnerable to insect damage as non-RR corn. Corn with Bt and RR resistance is something entirely different!

Martin

springvalley · #62 10/21/11, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDog1222

I hope no one thought I was talking down to them, I didn’t think I was. I was talking about the people that might actually think that organic corn is better based on a protein analysis done on these two TOTALLY different types of corn or by sight alone, AND, if someone misleads the public into thinking that, because they have not studied how to do proper science before coming to a conclusion, that’s all. I DON’T think Monsanto would like that at all! If you want to play the guessing game, which one is organic, that’s fine. But don’t drag science into it unless you plan to play by the rules! I though you were trying to make people think one was better than the other w/out the facts and being scientific about it. Sorry if I was wrong.

Jill I don`t really care what Monsanto thinks, as I have said this started out as a very nice question on what corn was what. And these two corn samples are just that, samples of corn. One is a organic hybrid and one is a bt hybrid, thats it , thats all, no more , no less. Is the organic better, to me yes, even if it produces 30 bushel less per acre. Most people on here have already made up their minds if they think organics are for them or not. And some on here find no harm in BT or GMO altered corn, that is their right also. So just keep the science out of this very simple question. > A humble middle aged farmer, that loves what he does. > Marc

Paquebot · #63 10/21/11, 11:39 PM

Marc, where you're getting flak from is that you used 2 entirely different types/varieties of corn. We've got a major seed corn company which is so close that it keeps losing land to this city. The third generation of owners bracketed me in school and we rode the same school bus. Although I de-tasseled corn for another company, my son did do it for them. They currently have 69 varieties of corn, 57 modified and 12 conventional, and from 81 to 116 DTM. None are just Bt. A quick look at other state seed corn companies also show both Bt and RR always combined. Monsanto does/did have straight Bt corn but I can't find anyone selling it here. If your neighbor sprayed anything after emergence, the usual reason would be for weed control. If so, then it wasn't MON 810 or something in the same line. It would have had both Bt and RR resistance stacked into the genetic code and that's a "whole 'nuther story" when it comes to planting corn!

Martin

springvalley · #64 10/21/11, 11:51 PM

I sure have been gettin my unfair share of flak on here the last few weeks. Guess thats what I get for logging in. > Marc

rambler · #65 10/22/11, 12:20 AM

Marc, I've been following this thread, didn't bother to reply because folks have their mind made up, and will go 'religious' on the topic, rather than 'factual'.

You've given your opinion that you think your way is better.

Others might be saying other ways are better - that is their right too, isn't it? Not beating up on you, not giving you flak - just sharing their opinion just as you shared yours. No need to become defensive about it.

You had an interesting question, but one wonders what the motive for the question was? People generally have a motivation for something..... When you added your opinion that your corn is better, even tho it yields less and is suseptable to insects as is evident in the photo, then you open yourself up for a discussion on that. Not flak or beating you up - just a discussion of what it is you are saying.

The 'support' you got pro-organic in this thread were, at times, pretty funny, but not very helpful. They perhaps are what sidetracked your thread the most, with some rather odd claims. Not your fault, not your claims.

I like the current options we have, to grow what we want, produce the way we want to produce.

I like your organic stuff.

I also like that farmers use techonlogy to produce more food for more people, to keep the world a bit more at peace. Most people in the world don't embrace the subsistance living some would like to force upon everyone - the results of that would get ugly... I'm glad we have choices.

I buy my corn seed from a small area seed breeder as well. Dad bought seed from their dad. They offer conventional (but not organic) hybreds,and they offer GMO corn as well. To be honest, I didn't know they had 'organic hybreds', thought the corn had to be open pollinated? Anyhow, I love supporting the small seed producer too, even tho most is GMO for me now.

None of this conversation is a 'you ro me' type of fight.

You provided a nice openning for some folks to make some outragious claims, and as always, when real science shows up, then the people back away, and start mumbling to themselves.

Your corn grows much better _Because_ of the neighbor's GMO corn. They did a study on who benifits the most from the BT genes in GMO corn, and t turns out those who buy the BT corn pay a lot for it, but people like you - or mostly me - don't pay for the BT trait, but the insect counts have dropped considerably because of the BT corn all around. So - you are getting more corn in your bin because the neighbor pays for & plants BT corn.

An interersting thought to add to this thread?

--->Paul

AverageJo · #66 10/22/11, 08:45 AM

Well, this is pretty much what Spring Valley said in his post... Let's all just agree to disagree. Obviously some are going to prefer the Genetically Modified, Roundup Ready, Bug sprayed corn that has been grown on fields that are fertilized with liquid nitrogen and other chemicals because nitrogen is nitrogen after all. Others are going to believe that this is not 'natural' and will grow open pollinated, non-modified corn and cultivate their fields and amend their soils with manuer, compost, and lime. Some believe that more is better and others will believe that quality is best. Only time will tell which is actually healthier for our animals and society.

geo in mi · #67 10/22/11, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springvalley

I sure have been gettin my unfair share of flak on here the last few weeks. Guess thats what I get for logging in. > Marc

Uhhhhh...maybe it was a word choice........"BT Monsanto vs. Organic non GMO"???

I kinda thought you were expecting an argument, as it happens in all posts where those words are used.....especially "vs."..................

These posts are about a once a month occurrence, aren't they? I don't understand why you didn't figure on raising the hackles on either "side" of the "vs." But at least you got me to look at your website............

Respectfully

geo

JDog1222 · #68 10/22/11, 09:58 AM

I think SV started the scientific experiment, just didn't finish yet.
http://www.sciencebuddies.org/scienc...c_method.shtml
I thought SV wanted to learn, I was trying to help. You need to go through ALL the steps before you report the results. Never-mind

fatrat · #69 10/22/11, 10:14 AM

I suppose either hybrid would be fine for most peoples needs or for the commodity market if it does well in your area. I grow only a little bit of corn and I prefer an old open pollinated variety. It yields more than I need and I grind it for corn meal and make bread out of it. There really is no such thing as an ideal variety or hybrid because everyones needs and priorities are different. I think this was a very interesting thread regardless of the lack of information or scientific studies since most people would pick grain or produce on visual appearance alone. This shows us that what people consider ideal can vary depending on their needs or values.

Fat Charlie · #70 10/22/11, 10:20 AM

It didn't strike me as a scientific study so much as a comparison with a fun discussion before we got the answer: which one do you think is organic and why?

Paquebot · #71 10/22/11, 11:06 AM

One thing that threw some people off is that virtually every GMO vs. whatever is invariably up against an open-pollinated variety. That's what I saw in this thread until the variety on the right was identified as a hybrid. There were about 40 each of flint and flour varieties offered in the SSE 2011 Yearbook and probably a third would produce ears similar to those on the right. The all-purpose non-dented types are now uncommon unless grown for a specialty market or home use. In fact, you might want to try grinding that one for flour. May even pop!

Martin

Countrygent51 · #72 10/22/11, 12:10 PM

I appreciated the comparison, Marc, thanks!

tinknal · #73 10/22/11, 01:09 PM

I know Cabin Fever does so love these Monsanto threads................

NickieL · #74 10/22/11, 02:54 PM

Thanks for showing us Marc! I understand where you are coming from

sammyd · #75 10/22/11, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Repeat, Bt corn is just as vulnerable to herbicides as any other tender plant.

there are many herbicides you can use on non round up ready corn.
Atrazine, 2-4-D, Lasso, Bentazon, Carfentrazone, Dimethenamid-P..the list is long. And most sweet corn will tolerate these as well.
To say that Bt corn can't be sprayed with an herbicide is a falsehood.

Paquebot · #76 10/22/11, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyd

there are many herbicides you can use on non round up ready corn.
Atrazine, 2-4-D, Lasso, Bentazon, Carfentrazone, Dimethenamid-P..the list is long. And most sweet corn will tolerate these as well.
To say that Bt corn can't be sprayed with an herbicide is a falsehood.

Thanks for pointing out the exceptions to the rules. Corn indeed is a tender grass and can withstand certain concentrations of herbicides. However, the herbicides used on corn generally are also for elimination of grasses rather than just broadleaf weeds. Bt corn would not be resistant to those types.

Martin