TransCanada\Keystone Pipeline.....Sell US ROW or We Wll SUE YOU

Paumon · #**121** 10/24/11, 05:23 PM

Emdeengee is correct - 2 new projects are approved and underway - a new bitumen refinery and a new carbon capture project:

http://alberta.ca/acn/201102/299142F...FE8C36216.html

Quote:

February 16, 2011

Edmonton... The Alberta government has successfully negotiated contracts for two projects that will advance upgrading and refining of bitumen in Alberta, increase supplies of diesel fuel and enhance Alberta’s position as a secure supplier of clean energy.

The first project with the North West Upgrading / Canadian Natural Resources Limited (CNRL) Partnership will lead to construction of a new bitumen refinery in Alberta’s Industrial Heartland, northeast of Edmonton, as part of the government’s bitumen royalty-in-kind (BRIK) initiative.

For the second project, the Alberta government and Enhance Energy Inc. have agreed to terms and conditions specific to the first major carbon capture and storage (CCS) project in the province. Enhance will build the Alberta Carbon Trunk Line (ACTL), a pipeline which will deliver carbon dioxide (CO2) captured from the refinery, to be used for enhanced oil recovery from existing conventional oil fields.

“This new refinery and CO2 pipeline will significantly advance Alberta’s capacity for refining bitumen into value-added products and increase recoveries from Alberta’s conventional oil reserves,” said Premier Ed Stelmach. “These projects underline Alberta’s commitment to responsible, cleaner energy production.”

Construction of Phase One of the bitumen refinery is targeted for completion in mid 2014. It will process for market 37,500 barrels daily of Crown bitumen in addition to 12,500 barrels per day of bitumen from Canadian Natural Resources Limited (CNRL). The refinery will process the Crown’s bitumen for a processing fee which will result in the Crown receiving higher revenues created by the higher-priced refined bitumen products. The two projects will create about 10,000 jobs during construction, plus associated spinoff employment.

During this first stage, the refinery will produce more than 5.5 million litres/day of ultra-low sulphur diesel while capturing over three thousand tonnes of CO2 daily. Enhance Energy will then transport the CO2 via the 240-km ACTL pipeline to conventional oil recovery projects throughout central Alberta where it will be injected into oil reservoirs to make the tough-to-extract oil flow more freely.

“These projects are a win-win for Albertans,” Energy Minister Ron Liepert said. “They represent a major step forward in producing value-added products while at the same time reducing greenhouse gas emissions. The potential of the enhanced conventional oil recovery ensures on-going jobs, investment and activity in surrounding communities.”

Alberta’s Carbon Capture and Storage Development Council estimated in 2009 that sufficient enhanced oil recovery capacity exists in Alberta to potentially store 450 megatonnes of CO2 and produce an additional 1.4-billion barrels of oil from conventional reservoirs throughout the province, potentially generating up to $25 billion in additional provincial royalties and taxes. Approximately 18 per cent of conventional reserves in place are recovered using current technology. Injecting solvents, such as CO2 into the reservoirs can increase total recovery rates to 26 per cent.

More news about it from May 2011: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...-proposal.html

Paumon · #**122** 10/24/11, 05:40 PM

Quote:

It will process for market 37,500 barrels daily of Crown bitumen in addition to 12,500 barrels per day of bitumen from Canadian Natural Resources Limited (CNRL). The refinery will process the Crown’s bitumen for a processing fee which will result in the Crown receiving higher revenues created by the higher-priced refined bitumen products.

It occurs to me I should clarify something for some of our neighbours to the south who might not understand what the "Crown" is. I know some people think the Crown is a reference to our Queen and monarchy and might think this means oil revenues could be going to our Queen. That is not the case in Canada.

The Crown is Canada.

tinknal · #**123** 10/24/11, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordy

...................A pipeline can move a multiplicity of petroleum products as they have ways of purging the inside of the pipe before initiating a run of a different item . , fordy

Just not workable. It takes weeks (if not months) for product to move through a pipeline this long. Business doesn't work this way. I also believe that gasoline is a lot more dangerous to ship through a pipeline than oil.

arabian knight · #**124** 10/24/11, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

Just not workable. It takes weeks (if not months) for product to move through a pipeline this long. Business doesn't work this way. I also believe that gasoline is a lot more dangerous to ship through a pipeline than oil.

Here is a picture of Re-fined oil products in pipelines
There sure is plenty of gasoline, and other refined products now traveling through pipelines. And another one the way this country and others use oil products is certainly worth while, and those that are NIMBY should stop using any products that are made out of pretor-chemicles. That is if they can. LOL
$TransCanada\Keystone Pipeline.....Sell US ROW or We Wll SUE YOU - Homesteading Questions$

plowjockey · #**125** 10/24/11, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

Just not workable. It takes weeks (if not months) for product to move through a pipeline this long. Business doesn't work this way. I also believe that gasoline is a lot more dangerous to ship through a pipeline than oil.

Your information is mostly incorrect.

Finished products (gasoline, diesel jetfuel LP gas, and some chemicals, etc.) are piped up to, over 1000 miles constantly, in the U.S. ,using the same line for different products.

Finished fuel, is shipped in "batches" of 3.5 million barrels, or so. Average pipleine speeds are 3-8MPH, average delivery from Texas to NY 18.5 days.

It does not matter if a pipeline is 100 or 5000 miles long, finished products will always be "batched", and there will be a regular supply, at the receiving end.

Paumon · #**126** 10/24/11, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabian knight

the way this country and others use oil products is certainly worth while, ......

Worth while?

Uh oh, AK, quickly now, you better qualify that or else

You're gonna be in trouble now, I can see 10 tons of bricks about to fall on you for making that statement.

This could be interesting.

$TransCanada\Keystone Pipeline.....Sell US ROW or We Wll SUE YOU - Homesteading Questions$
$TransCanada\Keystone Pipeline.....Sell US ROW or We Wll SUE YOU - Homesteading Questions$
$TransCanada\Keystone Pipeline.....Sell US ROW or We Wll SUE YOU - Homesteading Questions$

arabian knight · #**127** 10/24/11, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paumon

Worth while?

Uh oh, AK, quickly now, you better qualify that or else

You're gonna be in trouble now, I can see 10 tons of bricks about to fall on you for making that statement.

This could be interesting.

$TransCanada\Keystone Pipeline.....Sell US ROW or We Wll SUE YOU - Homesteading Questions$
$TransCanada\Keystone Pipeline.....Sell US ROW or We Wll SUE YOU - Homesteading Questions$
$TransCanada\Keystone Pipeline.....Sell US ROW or We Wll SUE YOU - Homesteading Questions$

Why would anyone try that? It is the truth. And it sure is a good thing to have oil coming into this country form a friendly source. And we also should be drilling more here.
I have always been for more wells more pipelines and less restrictions from government to open up industry once again in this country.

naturelover · #**128** 10/24/11, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabian knight

...... And another one the way this country and others use oil products is certainly worth while, and those that are NIMBY should stop using any products that are made out of pretor-chemicles. That is if they can. LOL

AK, I double-double dog dare you to look at everything in this link and then tell us again that the way this country and others use oil products is worth while.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sugexp=kjrmc&cp=23&gs_id=1w&xhr=t&q=plastic+waste+in+oceans&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=567&wrapid=tljp1319510419656038&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi
.

arabian knight · #**129** 10/24/11, 11:04 PM

I don't have to see some plastic floating around the ocean. Recycling is getting big across the land.
And I sure don;t want to go back to the darkness of the 1800's either. And 99.99999999999% of this world do not want to step into a way back machine either.

tinknal · #**130** 10/25/11, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

Your information is mostly incorrect.

Finished products (gasoline, diesel jetfuel LP gas, and some chemicals, etc.) are piped up to, over 1000 miles constantly, in the U.S. ,using the same line for different products.

Finished fuel, is shipped in "batches" of 3.5 million barrels, or so. Average pipleine speeds are 3-8MPH, average delivery from Texas to NY 18.5 days.

It does not matter if a pipeline is 100 or 5000 miles long, finished products will always be "batched", and there will be a regular supply, at the receiving end.

Sounds to me like my information is mostly correct. Do you realize that there are six different grades of fuel oil? Add gasoline and jet fuel it would take half a year to ship one batch of each. Do you understand the storage capacity that a refinery would need ship in this way? Do you realize the storage capacity that would be needed at the destination? Not to mention the fact that if the oil were refined having a single pipeline would useless because the product would still need to be trucked or piped to their destinations. The distribution systems already exist here. To do build new refineries in Canada would require 10s of thousands of miles of new pipelines going in all different directions.

plowjockey · #**131** 10/25/11, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

Sounds to me like my information is mostly correct. Do you realize that there are six different grades of fuel oil? Add gasoline and jet fuel it would take half a year to ship one batch of each. Do you understand the storage capacity that a refinery would need ship in this way? Do you realize the storage capacity that would be needed at the destination? Not to mention the fact that if the oil were refined having a single pipeline would useless because the product would still need to be trucked or piped to their destinations. The distribution systems already exist here. To do build new refineries in Canada would require 10s of thousands of miles of new pipelines going in all different directions.

I think I realize.

Not to brag, but I drive a tanker truck, for a refinery, that reprocesses pipline "interface", for nearly every major petroleum pipeline, between Colorado and New York.

Gasoline, Diesel, Jet fuel and some propane, is mostly what that goes though major pipelines, since it has the lion's share of demand.

Sound's like this is really us-against-them.

We want the (temproary) pipeline jobs and the refinery jobs - but so do the Canadians.

It ought to turn out to be an interesting fight, especially when the environmentalists get charged up.

tinknal · #**132** 10/25/11, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

I think I realize.

Not to brag, but I drive a tanker truck, for a refinery, that reprocesses pipline "interface", for nearly every major petroleum pipeline, between Colorado and New York.

Gasoline, Diesel, Jet fuel and some propane, is mostly what that goes though major pipelines, since it has the lion's share of demand.

Sound's like this is really us-against-them.

We want the (temproary) pipeline jobs and the refinery jobs - but so do the Canadians.

It ought to turn out to be an interesting fight, especially when the environmentalists get charged up.

Sounds to me like most Canadians are all for it. many of the pipeline jobs will be permanent. The oil is going to be extracted and will be refined and sold. The only question is where?

plowjockey · #**133** 10/25/11, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

Sounds to me like most Canadians are all for it. many of the pipeline jobs will be permanent. The oil is going to be extracted and will be refined and sold. The only question is where?

I have one question - if?

IMO, the pipeline, whether crude, or finished product and even the new CA refineries, are anything, but a "done deal".

Environmentalist are drawing up war plans and they have squashed many projects like these, in recent years. Engineering and planing move ahead while court battles, stall any real progress.

Here is one of the first of very many.

Quote:

The Center for Biological Diversity, Western Nebraska Resources Council and Friends of the Earth have filed a lawsuit making the charge that the mowing of grass along the proposed route is really the beginning of construction

http://www.redstate.com/aglanon/2011...e-lawn-mowing/

It will be a battle

texican · #**134** 10/25/11, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabian knight

I don't have to see some plastic floating around the ocean. Recycling is getting big across the land.
And I sure don;t want to go back to the darkness of the 1800's either. And 99.99999999999% of this world do not want to step into a way back machine either.

I think it'd be pure irony.... I know a lot of mad dog environmentalists (I think of myself as one).... but I know only a handful that could survive a month without the oil flowing....

Okeydoke to rail against the evils of oil (even though we are living in the Age of Oil, and most owe their very existence to it) but to rail, without knowing the consequences of the absence of oil, is deadly naive.

fordy · #**135** 10/25/11, 10:16 PM

...................I understand the necessity of pipelines , but , it seems too me that the companies wanting too build IT have been given tacit approval by Obama for both it's tenative construction and it's route ! Were this NOT the case , why would the ROW agents be active when the State dept. hasn't formerly approved it's construction? Hillary has already mimed her acceptance and the fed agency responsible for pipeline safety has approved a waiver for Thinner pipe which speaks loudly too the effectiveness of Paid lobbyists and their legal bribes too politicans for their support . , fordy

arabian knight · #**136** 10/25/11, 10:28 PM

This maybe one of the reasons for them wanting to go ahead even though the permits have not been cleared yet.
Yet another abstraction for those that want oil and gas and such NIMBY.
Well things Will go through pane one reason is the Obama Administration has granted nearly 300 new drilling permits, and shirked plans to plug 3,600 way less then should be opened back up but it is a stat at least.
And this:
Report from Dow Jones:
“The upcoming lease sale, scheduled for Dec. 14 in New Orleans, involves leases in the western Gulf of Mexico. The leases cover about 21 million acres, in water depths of up to 11,000 feet. It will be the first lease auction since the Deepwater Horizon spill.”
We need to drill, and get oil and gas into this country NOW, this wee not only help the price of gas from going sky high again, but also will curb prices of goods from getting higher as well, and I hope someday Obama really does see the light and relaxes the regulations even more.

Sanza · #**137** 10/26/11, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

I think I realize.

Not to brag, but I drive a tanker truck, for a refinery, that reprocesses pipline "interface", for nearly every major petroleum pipeline, between Colorado and New York.

Gasoline, Diesel, Jet fuel and some propane, is mostly what that goes though major pipelines, since it has the lion's share of demand.

Sound's like this is really us-against-them.

We want the (temproary) pipeline jobs and the refinery jobs - but so do the Canadians.

It ought to turn out to be an interesting fight, especially when the environmentalists get charged up.

Us against them? Explain please......I never knew there was a fight over the oil between Canada and the states. We have the oil and will ship it to you, but if you don't want it (on the offchance the pipeline is scrapped) there are other countries that do, and Canada can and will build a pipeline to the west coast. Oh yes that will also get built in spite of current obstacles.....nothing stands in the way of progress - sadly, even the environment.

I live in Alberta and this oil industry up in the oil sands have been going on almost all my life. It is, and always has been a huge economic boost in my province and the supply won't run dry, or the jobs disappear in my lifetime for sure.

This article shows how many pipelines already go through the aquifer....
There are currently 21,000 miles of pipelines crossing Nebraska, including 3,000 miles of hazardous liquid pipelines. Many of these pipelines co-exist within the Ogallala aquifer
http://www.downstreamtoday.com/news/...spx?a_id=27845

arabian knight · #**138** 10/26/11, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanza

Us against them? Explain please......I never knew there was a fight over the oil between Canada and the states. We have the oil and will ship it to you, but if you don't want it (on the offchance the pipeline is scrapped) there are other countries that do, and Canada can and will build a pipeline to the west coast. Oh yes that will also get built in spite of current obstacles.....nothing stands in the way of progress - sadly, even the environment.

I live in Alberta and this oil industry up in the oil sands have been going on almost all my life. It is, and always has been a huge economic boost in my province and the supply won't run dry, or the jobs disappear in my lifetime for sure.

This article shows how many pipelines already go through the aquifer....
There are currently 21,000 miles of pipelines crossing Nebraska, including 3,000 miles of hazardous liquid pipelines. Many of these pipelines co-exist within the Ogallala aquifer
http://www.downstreamtoday.com/news/...spx?a_id=27845

Very true.
And now the crude price is nearly 93 bucks, and going up even more. It is more important then ever to use the oil sands as much as possible.

ErinP · #**139** 10/26/11, 09:00 AM

Quote:

There are currently 21,000 miles of pipelines crossing Nebraska, including 3,000 miles of hazardous liquid pipelines. Many of these pipelines co-exist within the Ogallala aquifer

I notice it didn't say HOW many or where exactly they run. Most of Nebraska is over the aquifer. But only in the Sandhills is it so shallow and porous that there's a concern.

Also, I caught this part:

Quote:

This ongoing consultation played a role in TransCanada voluntarily agreeing with the federal pipeline regulator to an additional 57 special conditions that provide an even greater confidence in the operation and monitoring of the pipeline, including: a higher number of remotely controlled shut-off valves, increased pipeline inspections and pipe that is buried deeper in the ground.

The FEIS concluded the incorporation of the 57 special conditions 'would result in a project that would have a degree of safety over any other typically constructed domestic oil pipeline system under current code'.

Ie, even if they can't get it moved, they've already won a LOT of special concessions that weren't otherwise going to be there.

plowjockey · #**140** 10/26/11, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanza

Us against them? Explain please......I never knew there was a fight over the oil between Canada and the states. We have the oil and will ship it to you, but if you don't want it (on the offchance the pipeline is scrapped) there are other countries that do, and Canada can and will build a pipeline to the west coast. Oh yes that will also get built in spite of current obstacles.....nothing stands in the way of progress - sadly, even the environment.

I live in Alberta and this oil industry up in the oil sands have been going on almost all my life. It is, and always has been a huge economic boost in my province and the supply won't run dry, or the jobs disappear in my lifetime for sure.

This article shows how many pipelines already go through the aquifer....
There are currently 21,000 miles of pipelines crossing Nebraska, including 3,000 miles of hazardous liquid pipelines. Many of these pipelines co-exist within the Ogallala aquifer
http://www.downstreamtoday.com/news/...spx?a_id=27845

You might want to look at your local news.

It's not just about the oil, which may be doomed also. It's also about who is refining it and how it's going to get where it's going.

This whole deal is a powderkeg, getting ready to blow into oblivion.

Quote:

“Our union opposes the XL pipeline for a whole number of reasons, including the impact on the environment, the loss of potential jobs and the harmful effect on the Canadian economy,” Dave Coles, president of the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers (CEP) union, said.

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/22...stone-pipeline