TransCanada\Keystone Pipeline.....Sell US ROW or We Wll SUE YOU

arabian knight · #81 10/22/11, 02:32 PM

[QUOTE=texican;5468445]I'm also for going oil free/carbon free. Leave all the oil and gas in the earth... /QUOTE]

Impossible.
We have Way too many things made from petrochemicals. Period.~!
Never will that happen.

bruce2288 · #82 10/22/11, 02:55 PM

Hey Vern Ibet you don't have a problem with it. Kinda like I don't care if they put a toxic waste dump in your back yard. That is why you get to make decisions about your back yard and the people of Nebraska should get to make the decision on where it is routed.

naturelover · #83 10/22/11, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErinP

Quote:

Well I don't know what the sandhills are

This explains it all.
If you did, there would be no confusion on your part.

Erin, this comment wasn't helpful to me. It doesn't explain anything to me and it doesn't tell me what it is that you apparently think I'm confused about. Indeed, in spite of the little smiley face it seems to be a bit of a flippant and condescending comment and that attitude is confusing to me since I was hoping you could provide me with a better understanding of what your objections are.

If these sandhills are important to you and I say I don't know what the sandhills are, that puts the ball in your court of knowledge and it's you're cue to enlighten me and other readers by informing us of what the sandhills are and why they're so very important to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce2288

...... A little education on the Nebraska sandhills. I believe it is the largest area of stabilized sand dunes in the world. It is dotted with multitudes of swallow lakes, these lakes are not surface runoff they are actually the ogallala aquifer surfaceing. The sand is the reason the aquifer recharges so easily here in Nebraska. The aquifer is not endless but is quite viable here. Just because something is true in one area does not mean it applies everywhere.
The major debate in this state is not whether or not to build the pipeline, but the siteing of the pipeline. AS the posting of nature lovers map. Nebraska wants it to follow a route similar to the pepeline already present.

Bruce you've tried to be helpful and explain some of it and I appreciate that but in an earlier post you have described the aquifer as a swallow aquifer and now these artesian lakes in sand dunes as being swallow lakes and I don't know what swallow lakes are either.

Did you mean that it is a shallow aquifer and that the artesian lakes are shallow lakes?

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ErinP · #84 10/22/11, 05:26 PM

I posted in a link to a four page article that clearly states what the issue is...

What else are you looking for??

Keystone XL Primer: Why Nebraska Is Ground Zero in the Pipeline Fight

Quote:

Did you mean that it is a shallow aquifer and that the artesian lakes are shallow lakes?

He meant shallow lakes.
In the Sandhills, the aquifer is literally so close to the surface that it appears as lakes. Clear, blue lakes that are vital to the environment and well as local ranchers. (This is in the article I posted)

Quote:

You haven't shown how these leaks affected any aquifers

Tink, you do understand that we're talking about two different legs of the pipeline, right? The XL project (see naturelover's map) is the part in contention. The existing route is far enough east it's not a problem with regards to the aquifer. It HAS, however, had a dozen leaks in a little over a year.
That's not exactly reassuring when they're trying to convince people that the new route, through a fragile ecosystem, is going to be perfectly safe...

bruce2288 · #85 10/22/11, 06:48 PM

Erin seems we are a 2 man crew reguarding the sandhills. Excellant link.

tinknal · #86 10/22/11, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErinP

I posted in a link to a four page article that clearly states what the issue is...

What else are you looking for??

Keystone XL Primer: Why Nebraska Is Ground Zero in the Pipeline Fight

He meant shallow lakes.
In the Sandhills, the aquifer is literally so close to the surface that it appears as lakes. Clear, blue lakes that are vital to the environment and well as local ranchers. (This is in the article I posted)

Tink, you do understand that we're talking about two different legs of the pipeline, right? The XL project (see naturelover's map) is the part in contention. The existing route is far enough east it's not a problem with regards to the aquifer. It HAS, however, had a dozen leaks in a little over a year.
That's not exactly reassuring when they're trying to convince people that the new route, through a fragile ecosystem, is going to be perfectly safe...

Please define "leaks". are we talking drips, gallons, dozens of gallons, hundreds of gallons, thousands of gallons.....

What was the company response to these leaks, and what was the environmental damage from these leaks?

Heck, my truck probably has dozens of leaks........

tinknal · #87 10/22/11, 07:37 PM

OK Erin, I read your link. 13 of the fourteen leaks (12 in the US and 2 in Canada) were less than 500 gallons, most in the 10 gallon range. The other was 20,000 gallons. Sounds like a lot, but completely manageable.

I would have no problem with rerouting the line and hope this doesn't become a point of contention that kills the project. If the state of Nebraska deems that the line should skirt the sandhills so be it, but the state should not benefit from extra tax dollars generated from the diversion.

plowjockey · #88 10/22/11, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey
Moammar Gadhafi is dead. Plenty of Middle East oil for everybody, now.

If Oil prices continue to fall, U.S. and Candaian oil sands projects, will be shut down and mothballed, just like they have in the past. We might end up with a half-finished, bankrupt pipeline, crossing our country.

Oil sand is expensive to process and lower crude prices, will not justify that expense.

Never has.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

You would have to be a Pollyanna to believe that these resources will not be utilized. You would also have to be foolish to think that world events will not continue to unfold, climactic events will not occur and oil will not again rise. The beauty of a project like this is that once it is in operation it will continue despite prices.

As far as that goes, having a pipeline ROW across your property really doesn't affect how you can use the property very much. You can still use the property for normal agricultural activities. about all you cannot do is dig deep holes, erect buildings, or plant trees over the pipeline.

Pollyanna's famous last words.

What happened to oil prices in 2008?

Endbridge already has a large crude oil pipeline to the U.S., but it goes to refineries in the MidWest, not TX, which may be a problem for some, especailly Texans.

This is why the keystone will never be built, especially through populated areas.

Quote:

Enbridge digs up leaking Illinois pipeline

Quote:

Enbridge Inc on Saturday started digging up the pipeline that halted nearly a third of Canada's crude oil exports to the United States when it sprung a leak two days ago, but the company does not have an estimate on how long repairs will take.

[

Quote:

Enbridge said removal of the damaged pipe is complicated by utility lines and sewer pipes near its line, forcing workers to dig by hand or use high-pressure water to expose the oil conduit. It can't yet say when that will be completed or when shipments might resume.

"Excavation has begun, but it's a busy corridor," said Gina Jordan, a spokeswoman for Enbridge. "There is still no estimate on when we can restart (the line)."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...6893UN20100911

texican · #89 10/22/11, 09:01 PM

[QUOTE=arabian knight;5468598]

Quote:

Originally Posted by texican

I'm also for going oil free/carbon free. Leave all the oil and gas in the earth... /QUOTE]

Impossible.
We have Way too many things made from petrochemicals. Period.~!
Never will that happen.

I realize that... where's the little facetious 'smiley' when you need it. No one is not affected by oil... it permeates every aspect of our lives. If it stopped flowing tomorrow, billions would be dead by the new year. Quite a few folks on this site would survive, but the masses of humanity are completely dependent upon it for their survival. (daresay a large percentage of those on this site that'd survive, would do so by having already stockpiled some of the precious fluids 'on site')

arabian knight · #90 10/22/11, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey;5469127[url

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/11/us-enbridge-leak-idUSTRE6893UN20100911[/url]

And that article was over a year old. So it is not up to date as to what is happening now at all.

VERN in IL · #91 10/22/11, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce2288

Hey Vern Ibet you don't have a problem with it. Kinda like I don't care if they put a toxic waste dump in your back yard. That is why you get to make decisions about your back yard and the people of Nebraska should get to make the decision on where it is routed.

A site near here WAS on a list of potential sites for a Radiation storage waste site, the areas they selected were areas that were sparsely populated. It was turned down in favor for sites closer to Chicago(how appropriate!) you can thank our Wabash Valley fault system and the New Madrid earthquake zones, totally natural occurrences in our region.

naturelover · #92 10/22/11, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

.... The other was 20,000 gallons. Sounds like a lot, but completely manageable.

I would have no problem with rerouting the line and hope this doesn't become a point of contention that kills the project. If the state of Nebraska deems that the line should skirt the sandhills so be it, but the state should not benefit from extra tax dollars generated from the diversion.

20,000 gallons might not seem like a problem on land but if 20,000 gallons spilled into an artesian lake above the Ogallala that would cause serious microbial pollution problems for the aquifer and it wouldn't be manageable. Artesian lakes from aquifers don't just upwell, they also downwell back down into their source so an oil spill on a lake would get oil being sucked back down into the aquifer. That would not be a good thing at all.

I looked at some high aerial views of the sandhills lakes, they are like welling potholes dotted all over the area between the waves of dunes. It seems pretty clear from above that the dunes themselves have been created in waves in the distant past from the upwelling of the artesians when the aquifer had full pressure and was bubbling up both sand and water.

I think the proposed line should be re-routed eastwards to bypass the sandhills and lakes. I can see from the maps why they want to go in a straight line to meet up with the junction at Steele City but it shouldn't be that much extra trouble to divert it east then swing south to run the proposed line south parallel to the existing line to meet up at the existing junction at Steele City.

$TransCanada\Keystone Pipeline.....Sell US ROW or We Wll SUE YOU - Homesteading Questions$

Unfortunately, those lakes also explain a great deal about why there is so much surface evaporation happening in Nebraska and causing so much extra depletion of the aquifer. The water is just welling up and evaporating away from the lakes.

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tinknal · #93 10/22/11, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

Pollyanna's famous last words.

What happened to oil prices in 2008?

Endbridge already has a large crude oil pipeline to the U.S., but it goes to refineries in the MidWest, not TX, which may be a problem for some, especailly Texans.

This is why the keystone will never be built, especially through populated areas.

[

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...6893UN20100911

Is there a point here? You really haven't said anything but instead dredged up a few insignificant facts.

naturelover · #94 10/22/11, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

...... the keystone will never be built, especially through populated areas.

It may or may not go through populated areas but you can bet your bottom dollar that it will eventually get built all the way through to Texas. Count on it.

.

tinknal · #95 10/22/11, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naturelover

It may or may not go through populated areas but you can bet your bottom dollar that it will eventually get built all the way through to Texas. Count on it.

.

Not to mention that it would be pretty stupid to run it through populated areas.......

naturelover · #96 10/23/11, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

Not to mention that it would be pretty stupid to run it through populated areas.......

Really? You mean like this? LOL .

I'm pretty sure a lot of these lines go through populated areas.

$TransCanada\Keystone Pipeline.....Sell US ROW or We Wll SUE YOU - Homesteading Questions$

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naturelover · #97 10/23/11, 12:43 AM

Oh wait. This is even better, it'll blow you away. Click on the link and then click on each of the 3 pictures. These are all oil and/or gas pipelines.

http://lobojosden.blogspot.com/2010/...bution-of.html

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tinknal · #98 10/23/11, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naturelover

Oh wait. This is even better, it'll blow you away. Click on the link and then click on each of the 3 pictures. These are all oil and/or gas pipelines.

http://lobojosden.blogspot.com/2010/...bution-of.html

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You mistake routes for destinations.

Big difference. Sorry hun, I'm not quite as stupid as you think.

naturelover · #99 10/23/11, 01:14 AM

Well perhaps I'm naive at times but they all showed up as oil and gas pipelines when I did a search of oil and gas pipelines of North America. Check it out.

http://www.theodora.com/pipelines/un...pipelines.html

http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/...re-everywhere/

Images search:
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sugexp=kjrmc&cp=38&gs_id=35&xhr=t&q=oil+and+gas+pipelines+in+north+america&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=567&wrapid=tljp1319343496359068&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi
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Bearfootfarm · #**100** 10/23/11, 01:25 AM

With all those lines already in place, one more won't really make a difference, will it?