Advice on a Troubled Elderly Relative

MoonShine · #21 09/21/11, 10:17 PM

I don't know about laws in other places, but I don't think there is any hassle in becoming someone's payee (as long as that someone agrees to let you be their payee). Am I wrong?

ETA: Just read your last post, SalmonSlayer. I'm slow tonight

**clovis** · #22 09/21/11, 11:18 PM

I don't know if you are a Dave Ramsey fan, but I would definitely call him on his radio show.

Dave will know what you can and cannot do, and will give you outstanding suggestions of how to fix the situation.

Helena · #23 09/22/11, 01:58 AM

Yes, it is a sad situation. My Dad who was in his 80's at the time and has since past away got himself hooked into sweepstakes through the mail. He actually gave away almost every penny he scrimped and saved his whole life. I actually found a suitcase in his attic on one visit with over $45,000 inside. I wish I had with my sister..done something with that money for my Dad. My BIL finally realized that Dad was spending his CD's that had been in my sister and my name his and Dad's name too.."suppose" to be a little something for us after his death and all was gone. We figured over $100,000 gone !! plus several bank accounts and safety deposit box with cash. He sent money order after money order to phoney sweepstakes overseas and I even answered phone calls at his house from foreigners promising Dad that any minute someone would be at his door with a bundle of gifts and money. We stepped in and was able to sell his house and place him in a senior housing apartment and by the time he did pass away his bank account was less than a $100 waiting for his next SS check. So sad..so I think these quick money schemes on the elderly in the form of credit cards is their way of hoping to get their money back if the people own any property. I would also approach him on getting POA to help with his finances..however meager they are..and to legally be the spokesperson to these quick loan people. Of course, no one is obligated to pay these loans after his death and POA is null and void afte the person death and you are then not binding to handle any finances. It's a sad day in America when the greedy prey on the elderly..and very little can be done to stop this..

Joshie · #24 09/22/11, 02:17 AM

I'm my son's Rep Payee. The only power it gives me is that he doesn't have direct access to his money. It sounds as if this would be a good idea but that's not going to solve the CC issue.

RedDirt Cowgirl · #25 09/22/11, 04:42 AM

It's not right to lay this kind of rambling digression off on someone who's concerned and looking for a solution to a bad situation. Maybe stiffing the people who took care of your dad and then dividing up his money between the kids gives you the right to judge others. Morally superior indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekasmom

When my dad was ill he had several creditors, mainly hospitals and doctor bills, whom he just couldn't pay. After his death lots and lots of collection agencies were calling. He was older, on SS, and didn't have a big estate. Our lawyer was so wonderful about this. He just said to hang up on them and ignore them no matter how much they tried to bully. They didn't even get the life insurances because only beneficiaries can get those, not creditors. The collection agencies bothered my sister a lot more than me, I would just hang up on them, but she (like you) worried. In fact none of the collection agencies actually sent the lawyers a claim on the estate at all, so we divided up everything after all the funeral bills were paid. They got nothing. Our lawyer wasn't even concerned about them. He said if they wanted to make a claim on the estate then he would pay them, if they didn't the money belonged to all the kids.

Sometimes it is so easy to think of debt as "stealing" but you aren't looking at the desperation of the people. My dad knew he didn't have hundreds of thousands of dollars for cancer treatments, but he was desperate. He knew he would never be able to pay those places even if he lived. But desperate people don't look at money with as much awe as nondesperate people. If your relative feels desperate for some reason, like needing food or needing something for her pets or needing a new refrigerator or whatever, she didn't think about how she was going to pay that back. And they can't hurt her. Her actions may make you feel embarrassed or morally superior because you don't think you would do that, but it's not your call or your problem. It's just too easy to look down on others when you aren't walking in their shoes.

Believe me the high interest places didn't loan the money to her at even half as much as they want back. And they live by bullying. Do be a bill collector for them by taking her income away to give it to them. That is what I would consider morally wrong.

mekasmom · #26 09/22/11, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDirt Cowgirl

Maybe stiffing the people who took care of your dad and then dividing up his money between the kids gives you the right to judge others. Morally superior indeed.

I wasn't actually the executor. Dad had it set up for his lawyer to be the executor of the will and estate. But if you have a problem with the lawyer, and the way he handles estates, I'm sure you could file a moral objection with the state bar or something. I'm sure they would be really interested in what a stranger outside of the whole situation thinks about how an attorney does his duty in following the laws of the state and serving his client.

The point is that there are laws and rules set up to protect people from predatory lenders. And it's ok to use them. You don't have to like them or agree with them, but they are set up to protect people. The poor relative has very little. Don't take what little they have to give to a loan shark. The laws are there to protect them.

Jolly · #27 09/22/11, 12:20 PM

I want to go back to the healthcare issue...

At $750/month, I wonder if the person qualifies for Medicaid in your state? With Medicaid + Medicare, you could drop the Medigap, this freeing up some cash. Alternatively, some of the new Medicare Advatage plans, while a bit restrictive, offer less total out-of-pocket costs as traditional Medicare, for some people.

Some other stuff...

I would also look into some food bank/church pantry/Angel ministries prgrams to see if they could recive food for free or at a reduced price.

Another thing you might think about is energy costs...it could be advantageous to use a level pay system for their utility bills. Some states also have programs in place to help the indigent with utility bills, especially in peak usage months.

I'm just trying to think of ways to free up more cash. Other have spoken with much more knowledge than I about the debt process...

salmonslayer · #28 09/22/11, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolly

I want to go back to the healthcare issue...

At $750/month, I wonder if the person qualifies for Medicaid in your state? With Medicaid + Medicare, you could drop the Medigap, this freeing up some cash. Alternatively, some of the new Medicare Advatage plans, while a bit restrictive, offer less total out-of-pocket costs as traditional Medicare, for some people.

Some other stuff...

I would also look into some food bank/church pantry/Angel ministries prgrams to see if they could recive food for free or at a reduced price.

Another thing you might think about is energy costs...it could be advantageous to use a level pay system for their utility bills. Some states also have programs in place to help the indigent with utility bills, especially in peak usage months.

I'm just trying to think of ways to free up more cash. Other have spoken with much more knowledge than I about the debt process...

Thanks Jolly for the suggestions. They are on Medicaide and the gap insurance through AARP is actually pretty good and relatively inexpensive. Luckily physical health is good and so far just some BP and cholesterol medications. Energy costs are pretty minimal with just electric and water and we pay half the electric and as said before we pay the rent. They probably do qualify for food stamps and there is a food pantry in a neighboring town but its almost defunct and has little food to offer anymore (we are in a very poor area. And lots of people dont know that as of a couple months ago Angel Ministries ceased operations due to money woes and is out of business (another sad sign of the times I guess). But I think we will have to look at food stamps at least for the time being for them. Even though $750 a month doesnt seem like much it should be more than enough to cover day to day living expenses since the utility bills are about a hundred, gap insurance is a bit less than a hundred and there should be no other bills but with all these credit bills it exceeds the entire $750 and literally there is nothing new in the house, no unforeseen medical,...we are struggling to find a reason or where the money is going and why.

We did find out that some of the unexplained transfers of money were to collection agencies who apparently convinced them to sign papers allowing an automatic withdrawl. Its almost comical if it wasnt so sad in that the automatic withdrawls sometimes bump into each other and there isnt enough in the account to even allow it. We put a stop to that today and asked the bank to lock the account.

I know your trying to help Mekasmom and I appreciate it but I think you misunderstand the situation. I am no ones debt collector but this isnt a medical debt nor is it a onetime got over their head issue. It seems to have started this summer and its on-going with new debt popping up seemingly every month and we need to stop it and get a grip on it. Once we figure it all out we will probably just pay off the debt ourselves as I doubt its more than a few thousand but the interest rates are at usury levels. We have also contacted the State Attorney Generals office about the lending practices of these unsecured quick cash places and its a well known problem at least in this state. If we can help in efforts to reign in these places we will do what we can.

I guess part of it is I am just so astounded this goes on in this economy and no one seems to have learned anything. No wonder the financial system is broken if you can get money that easy with little credit worthiness, little hope of ever paying it off and with zero assets to secure the loan.

I am a big guy and I feel like going down to these places and physically impressing my displeasure on someones face but that doesnt solve anything and the Mrs reminds me I am sort of respectable here..

, and since she is much smarter than I am I have learned to listen to her.

Jolly · #29 09/22/11, 06:05 PM

Don't forget, Medicare and Medicaid are two different animals. You can have both...and if you do, it negates the need for Medigap.

Secondly, what about your university hospital system? In Louisiana, $750/month for an individual qualifies for Free Care from an LSU hospital or clinic.

salmonslayer · #30 09/22/11, 07:01 PM

I dont know if anyone is ready for this shock but PLEASE READ IF YOU HAVE AN ELDERLY RELATIVE We made significant headway today closing the bank account, becoming the SS payee and stopping any automatic withdrawls but get this. One of the unsecured loans from one of those quick cash places charged %300 percent annual interest...no thats not a type and its on the contract. There is also a portion of the contract that they signed that says they wont sue, they have to send a letter to the company for any dispute and use THEIR general counsel.

This place was in a strip mall, the relative walked by and didnt even know what they were signing and couldnt explain the contract when we talked to them. We have filed a complaint with the State Attorney General's office and notified the Dept of Health and Senior Services over the practices of this company and it appears there may be a violation of Missouri Revised statutes 408.030 on Interest and Usury but who knows. They also charge a $5.00 a day fee for every day a payment is late which is also illegal from what I can tell and they immediately backed off that when I called them.

We were listed as a reference but this company says they have a policy of not contacting references and giving loans to anyone who asks and they about admitted they loan mostly to the elderly, single mothers, and the unemployed.

Think about %300 percent interest for a moment...its hard to believe and it takes a bit to sink in. The person I spoke to at DHSS says this is an increasingly common problem with the elderly and they dig a hole they cant come out of and through embarrassment, ignorance or the old pride and honor they end up paying thousands in penalties and usury interest for a few hundred dollar loan.

I am so disgusted it makes me feel ill.

Tarheel · #31 09/22/11, 07:39 PM

salmonslayer this is the kind of stuff that makes my blood boil ! Taking advantage of old people and thieves. Sounds like you are dealing with 2 of the same. I blame a lot of this on our government, they have sold us out just about every-way they can. In this situation not monitoring these type of loan sharks.

My hat is off to you and the Mrs. for helping these folks out !

Use Less · #32 09/23/11, 08:32 AM

You need to think about how much you want and are able to do. If your relative will volunarily surrender his/her finances to you, you can see that the rent is paid & there is food in the house. Meals-on-Wheels or similar services where you are? State by state & county by county things are handled differently, and different services are available. If the person won't agree voluntarily, and you want to take charge, you'll need a lawyer & a hearing to get the person declared incompetent. Some elderly will HATE you for this, find their own lawyers, & present well enough in front of a judge that you will be denied. Luck.

used2bcool13 · #33 09/23/11, 01:42 PM

SalmonSlayer,

First of all kudos to you for actually being part of the answer to a problem, not just b*itching about it. You and your wife got alot accomplished in a short amount of time. I hope someone looks out for me as well as you guys are doing if I get in that position ever.

Second I think you should plaster the name of that creditor or loan place all over the internet and explain what they are doing so that maybe one person is saved from that. At least tell the agencies for the aged in your area about them.

Three hundred percent interest, 300% interest, what a racket, unbelievable.

Great blog site btw, take it easy!

salmonslayer · #34 09/23/11, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by used2bcool13

SalmonSlayer,

First of all kudos to you for actually being part of the answer to a problem, not just b*itching about it. You and your wife got alot accomplished in a short amount of time. I hope someone looks out for me as well as you guys are doing if I get in that position ever.

Second I think you should plaster the name of that creditor or loan place all over the internet and explain what they are doing so that maybe one person is saved from that. At least tell the agencies for the aged in your area about them.

Three hundred percent interest, 300% interest, what a racket, unbelievable.

Great blog site btw, take it easy!

Thanks, I went down today and raised Kane and they let me pay it off with no penalty or the fees so it ended up with the amount borrowed plus about $150. I have contacted our local state rep and there is currently a bill in the Missouri Legislature over this very issue thats not making much traction through the house and senate. There is a trade organization funded group called Missouri Equal Credit Opportunity (MECO) that is trying to scare folks that restricting interest rates from usury levels like %300 will cost them money because they wont be able to get unsecured loans and they obviously are putting money into the effort and influencing some politicians. I have offered to testify and will continue to pursue this to bring some rational regulation into this issue, not stop these businesses from operating.

We were able to get the relatives name and SSN flagged at this particular business (that has multiple store fronts) as an endangered person so they cant take out more loans but there are these type of places all over the place here. I have also contact a local TV station that has a consumer dept and they are putting the issue before their editorial group to see if they want to do a segment on the issue..we shall see.

snowlady · #35 09/25/11, 09:51 PM

God bless you for stepping in and taking care of them, Salmonslayer. We need more people to watch over those who need it and take care of things with no ulterior motive.

salmonslayer · #36 09/26/11, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowlady

God bless you for stepping in and taking care of them, Salmonslayer. We need more people to watch over those who need it and take care of things with no ulterior motive.

Thanks Snowlady. I suspect a lot of folks on this site are facing the same thing, aging relatives who have become almost destitute by the economy or chronic medical issues. Even though we have some resources it really gets almost overwhelming when it seems so many governmental or private concerns are working against you.

I have been following Nevada's struggle with his friend Alma very closely and I always learn from the people who share their challenges and successes. Even younger folks need to be aware of this stuff, seems like just yesterday I was young, indestructible, and most of this was on the backs of my parents or others...then you blink and you find yourself fighting your own medical and financial issues and trying to preserve the dignity of those who seemed so strong just a short while ago.

The one up side to this economy though is that at least for us, it has brought the family together in a way that was common a generation or two ago but seemed almost a quaint notion not too long ago. Around here, the fact that we have 3 generations living on the farm right now isnt even unusual, its the norm.