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09/27/11, 04:37 AM
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,623
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You can't be self-sufficient. That would imply knapping your own flint, making your own bows and arrows or atlatls and darts, killing your own game, butchering and curing it, curing and tailoring your own buckskin, gathering your own grain, mining and smelting your own ore, and on and on and on. Been a long time since someone did all that for themselves, and never needed a neighbour.
I prefer the term self-reliant. That simply implies you rely on yourself, but it doesn't preclude trading for things others can do better than you.
You've got to have animal-proof fencing. Deer (or goats, or cattle) will eat near anything. You can grow fruit or vegetables, but the animals as above, or raccoons, or bears, will snarf them down, and destroy what they don't eat.
You've got to have predator-proof housing for any livestock (or even cats and dogs) you do have. Bear, puma, coyote, wolf, bobcat will clean up your larger livestock. The foregoing, plus bobcat, raccoon, possum, fox, skunk, weasel, mink, wolverine - will all clean up on your poultry and smaller livestock.
Start with a vegetable garden and chickens. Get on top of that, then you can expand to larger enterprises. An acre of cereal in a grain-growing area will feed a family of four for a year - just. Not good eating, but they won't quite starve. An acre of potatoes in a good district will have people eating even better. Add a vegetable garden, an orchard, chickens and eggs, pork and goats, milk and cheese, and you are beginning to eat fairly well.
If you are harvesting by hand, diversify so that it all doesn't ripen at once. An acre of land is ten square chains - a chain by a furlong - 22 yards by 220 yards, 44x110, 88x55, close enough to a square 70 yds on a side. You can work that up with a hoe or a single-tine plough, even pulled by a donkey, a milk-cow, or what would normally be a riding-horse. Or a wife and child. Sow the grain broadcast by hand. Harvest with a scythe or sickle. However, if you diversify, you don't need to do it all at once. Sow some wheat, some corn, some barley, some rye, some oats, some triticale, sorghum, buckwheat, ameranth, quinoa, millet. Sow beans, black-eyed peas, field peas, lentils, garbanzos. Pick some unripe as vegetables - not quite sweet corn or green beans, but close enough for a week or so in season, and you could can or dry them to stretch the value. When it comes time to harvest, instead of an acre or multiples thereof all at once, it's just a couple of square chains, with the same again of a different grain in a week's time.
If your main starch crop is potatoes, spread them out - plant a few rows each month, diversify with other tubers like turnips, swedes, rutabagas, carrots, parsnips, radish, daikon radish, beets, mangolds (mangel wurzels), pumpkins, squash. Grow greens like various lettuces, chard, kale, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, chou moullier.
Add Muscovy ducks to your poultry. They lay a fair number of eggs, but mostly hide them and incubate them. That's good - you get Muscovies by the million. They aren't like your standard fatty Mallard-related ducks - more like a lean lamb or pork flesh.
And turkey, and geese - including African geese, which are smaller and less fat than European geese. And Guinea fowl, but you MUST train them to sleep in the predator-proof housing. Use dogs, whips and shock-rods. They will want to sleep outdoors, with the owls and the other predators. Nobody accused Guinea fowl of being bright.
Consider pressure-cooking bones and eggshells. They end up soft in a stock, and you can whizz them up in a blender. This will give you the calcium you would otherwise need milk to get. Not saying you shouldn't have milk, yoghurt and cheese (and whey-cheese - Google it), but if something else can also fill that slot, then waste-not, want-not.
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09/27/11, 07:47 AM
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,395
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Nancylee: Look for seed/plant companies that are located near you or at least in the north. They will specialize in short season plants. Don't trust big box stores to sell you zone appropriate plants.
When we started out here, our soil was rocky and total clay. I couldn't even dig holes to put the plants in. I only planted things I could have DH dig a hole, fill with compost and plant the plants. Doing this and using the lasagna method (lots of paper and compost and manure) made decent soil by the third season (spring, fall, spring). NOw I have rich brown soil. When I work the soil, I remove the rocks. There are lots less now. Those are used to hold down the paper and cardboard I use to keep weeds down and to hold the moisture in the soil so I don't have to waste water.
--Get water barrels on your downspouts! We have three and a 10 minute rain (not a hard one, mind you) nets us 150 gallons. Don't waste $$ on water!
--Solar is expensive and you need at least 20 years to justify spending even if only on solar hot water. There are small things you can do:Put a camping shower bag out in the sun and use that for dishwashing.
I have more but must run to work.
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09/27/11, 08:02 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 133
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Wow!!! More and more great information! Thanks!!
I misspoke - I know that I can't become really self-sufficient, but I would like to grow a lot of our own food, and our own milk. I would also like to have fibers to spin, so some sheep and Angora goats would be great!
Nancy
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09/27/11, 09:59 AM
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Living the dream.
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Morganton, NC
Posts: 1,982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nancylee
Hi everyone,
You are all wonderful!! Thank you for all of your help and suggestions!! I am writing them all down, and going to review them with my husband, who isn't as into this idea as I am!! 
Nancy
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First step: Get your husband on board!
Homesteading is a massive undertaking and the more help you have the better! A lot of time just getting started on something is enough to get a spouse involved, but if he doesn't jump in and start participating, (or even if he does) make sure not to take on more than you can handle. Burnout is a very real issue with homesteading. Also have a plan in place how you will manage and what you will cut out as you age.
Leave his motorcycle and ATV alone! While not a tractor, ATV's are very useful around the farm. His motorcycle is probably a very fuel efficient mode of transportation when he might need to run to the store to buy a much needed small part ect. I sold mine (on my own accord) several years ago and still regret it regularly. Men NEED their "toys" for their mental well being. Especially in their middle age years, this has been scientifically proven.
That being said, you are embarking on a fantastic adventure that involves a lot of work, some heart ache, but a lot of reward too. There is not much more that makes me happier than just strolling around my homestead watching my livestock, crops and wildlife!
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09/27/11, 10:48 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MO Ozarks
Posts: 262
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We are getting as self sufficient as possible on 10 acres, and it's amazing how far we have come in 3 years so I know that you can definitely do this on your 40 acres.
Because of losing half our income with no warning, we began by looking at each item we bought and tried to figure out how to not buy it and by doing so reduced our grocery budget to $80 per month instead of the $400 we used to spend.
I would suggest that you consider putting up a hoop house (very inexpensive using pvc pipe and heavy plastic --about $100 for ours), with raised beds. This allows us to extend our growing season and we have fresh greens, etc nearly year round by doing this plus our normal garden. Our chickens also enjoy spending some time inside the hoop house in the winter.
By canning all our vegetables, pickles, fruits, sauces, jellys,and a variety of meats, stews, soups, etc. there is little to buy except coffee, teas, sugars, spices, but we still buy wheat (hopefully will be able to grow enough to stop this next year). We make our own soap, laundry soap, cleaning solutions, etc. We stopped using the dryer, and dishwasher, started using wood to heat, put a timer on the electric water heater
and use cloth dishtowels instead of paper towels, etc. If you break it down by item and just concentrate on one thing at a time, it will take on a life of its own and your progress will snowball quickly achieve each step. You will be amazed at how saving just a few dollars here and there add up to so much. Granny always told me that if you watch your pennies, your dollars will take care of themselves and she was a very wise woman. Good luck with your adventure!
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09/27/11, 11:12 AM
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Poo Fairy
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas Angel
Posts: 6,489
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First I would slow down, lol. Taking on too much too fast can give you heart burn. And burn out..LOL
Do you have a tractor with a front end loader? Do you need one? Will you need one in the future?
Fencing? Do you have any? What you want to raise will depend on what type of fencing.
Do you have any Barn, sheds etc?
Do you know how to preserve your food? Canning, processing
Do you know how or want to raise chickens? Start small
Just some of many questions I would ask you. Because some of these items can be very costly to start up living in the country, rather lone being self-sufficiant.
What are your short term plans to build up to the bigger goal?
Unless your rich.
__________________
"If you tickle the earth with a hoe she laughs with a harvest."
- Douglas William Jerrold
Real is Beautiful -Sherry in Maine
I am 47
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09/27/11, 01:01 PM
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greenheart
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ky
Posts: 1,667
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work like the famous ripple effect when throwing a rock in water. start small and keep adding. I hated picking rocks out of the fields in spring as a kid. Where in blazes did they come from. The farm wagon was parked in the lane and we dumped the baskets and buckets of stones in it and they were used among other things to mend the holes in our very long drive.
I would say start with a few raised beds, so you get at least something. You have no pasture land established and lots of pines. I would try out two goats. they are good at clearing, brush, brambles, poison ivy, honeysuckle, tagweed, goats eat it and love it. In winter they like pine and cedar, but need some good hay too. anyway, there is your milk and some meat. Once wildlife ruins your work you will be less enamored with seeing it. We see deer and wild turkey in our pastures at times. There is lots of area here and I figure they do not need to be in my gardens. Our land is little steep hills and narrow coves, lots of cedar, jack pine and poplar in the low spots. It takes years, We planted grapes on the southside of the house, on a trellis. I have four currant bushes growing on the westside of the house. Why bother with ornamentals when currants make nice bushes. There is some of your jelly. We have been cleaing ever since we have been here. Little by little, piece by piece. After an ice storm we had a terrible mess and we had to get with it and now we have a little more pasture.. We have three ponds. Herons help themselves. the dogs chase them off when they see them. We keep a few Dexter cows and it gets hot here, you need a pond for the cattle. and besides, it is nice to have a pond and we have a few ducks and geese. Rocks or not, they do not deter chickens. Ours run free, we have a fence aruond the house, yard and gardens, and the critters have free run. We are in the process of cross fencing and have three paddocks now.
We donot have rocks and summers are hot here. If I had a lot of rocks I might consider a rockwall and planting heat loving things along it and using it as a heat source for them.
Good luck to you. Rome was not built in one day and your farm will get done, too. though never finished. we are always busy. Right now we are building a woodshed. I have used bent over cattle panels covered with tarps as make shift wood sheds. They can also make a quick and cheap greenhouse.
Rocks can have many benefits
Last edited by Tabitha; 09/27/11 at 01:05 PM.
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09/27/11, 02:13 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fowler
First I would slow down, lol. Taking on too much too fast can give you heart burn. And burn out..LOL
Do you have a tractor with a front end loader? Do you need one? Will you need one in the future?
Fencing? Do you have any? What you want to raise will depend on what type of fencing.
Do you have any Barn, sheds etc?
Do you know how to preserve your food? Canning, processing
Do you know how or want to raise chickens? Start small
Just some of many questions I would ask you. Because some of these items can be very costly to start up living in the country, rather lone being self-sufficiant.
What are your short term plans to build up to the bigger goal?
Unless your rich.
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Hi,
We are not rich, my husband is on a disability pension, and I have 5 years to go teaching to get a pension, but I would love to retire early. I love the kids, but the administrators are killing me with nonsense.  I want to live to my retirement, not die of stress,so if I could get more self-sufficient, we would need less to live on.)
We don't have a tractor, this is something we have to buy. We don't have fencing, but we have two barns: one converted from a shed, and a big barn my husband is building. I know how to make jam, but haven't canned anything else. My mother used to freeze all my father's veggies, so I know how to do that. I can bake bread, quilt and am learning to spin, so I would like some chickens and some fiber animals. Maybe dairy goats, but I am going to take it slow, after reading all this.
Step One: the garden. I do get overwhelmed when I go out there, I have all these rocks from the small pond we dug, I can't move them alone, I don't have help from my husband most of the time. It seems simpler to sell this place and get less land if it is set up with pasture and gardens already sometimes? So I will start small and see what happens.
Thanks much,
Nancy
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09/27/11, 02:29 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: mid coast maine
Posts: 664
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oh yea i too say keep the atv and motorcycle IF paid for if not trade them for ones that are paid for
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09/27/11, 03:09 PM
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Poo Fairy
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas Angel
Posts: 6,489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nancylee
Hi,
We are not rich, my husband is on a disability pension, and I have 5 years to go teaching to get a pension, but I would love to retire early. I love the kids, but the administrators are killing me with nonsense.  I want to live to my retirement, not die of stress,so if I could get more self-sufficient, we would need less to live on.)
We don't have a tractor, this is something we have to buy. We don't have fencing, but we have two barns: one converted from a shed, and a big barn my husband is building. I know how to make jam, but haven't canned anything else. My mother used to freeze all my father's veggies, so I know how to do that. I can bake bread, quilt and am learning to spin, so I would like some chickens and some fiber animals. Maybe dairy goats, but I am going to take it slow, after reading all this.
Step One: the garden. I do get overwhelmed when I go out there, I have all these rocks from the small pond we dug, I can't move them alone, I don't have help from my husband most of the time. It seems simpler to sell this place and get less land if it is set up with pasture and gardens already sometimes? So I will start small and see what happens.
Thanks much,
Nancy
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LOL, Hon, I have a job 55 miles oneway to support my self-sufficant livestyle....LMAO!!!
You are on the right track, just take it slow. Like many have stated here dont overwhelm yourself with expecting to have that big garden in the first few years, start small, then as you grow so will your garden. Get a few chickens, learn their needs, with food and shelter. Start a compost pile, this can be easliy done with just raking leaves up from the yard and adding to it. I personally use pallets to hold in my compost.
If you start slow, you will end up with your dream or something your Happy with in the end.
~whispering~ I personally wouldnt start with goats, unless you want to pull your hair out  : and quit your dream. Please dont hit me goat people. I love goats
__________________
"If you tickle the earth with a hoe she laughs with a harvest."
- Douglas William Jerrold
Real is Beautiful -Sherry in Maine
I am 47
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09/27/11, 04:08 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 19,346
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If I was closer I'd help you with those rocks. I need some good sized ones to mark my property line to keep a neighbor from driving onto it.
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09/27/11, 05:10 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danaus29
If I was closer I'd help you with those rocks. I need some good sized ones to mark my property line to keep a neighbor from driving onto it.
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Well if you are ever in upstate NY, feel free to come over and grab some!!!
Nancy
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09/27/11, 09:58 PM
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greenheart
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ky
Posts: 1,667
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It gets mighty cold there, right? Those rocks are your friend. Little by little I would get some rock walls made. Check out Helen and Scott Nearing. They built their entire house out of rocks, at age 75. Those two were truly self sufficient, way up to real old age. Scott died at age 100. And they settled in a colder climate, Maine.
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09/28/11, 04:24 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mozarkian
We are getting as self sufficient as possible on 10 acres, and it's amazing how far we have come in 3 years so I know that you can definitely do this on your 40 acres.
Because of losing half our income with no warning, we began by looking at each item we bought and tried to figure out how to not buy it and by doing so reduced our grocery budget to $80 per month instead of the $400 we used to spend.
I would suggest that you consider putting up a hoop house (very inexpensive using pvc pipe and heavy plastic --about $100 for ours), with raised beds. This allows us to extend our growing season and we have fresh greens, etc nearly year round by doing this plus our normal garden. Our chickens also enjoy spending some time inside the hoop house in the winter.
By canning all our vegetables, pickles, fruits, sauces, jellys,and a variety of meats, stews, soups, etc. there is little to buy except coffee, teas, sugars, spices, but we still buy wheat (hopefully will be able to grow enough to stop this next year). We make our own soap, laundry soap, cleaning solutions, etc. We stopped using the dryer, and dishwasher, started using wood to heat, put a timer on the electric water heater
and use cloth dishtowels instead of paper towels, etc. If you break it down by item and just concentrate on one thing at a time, it will take on a life of its own and your progress will snowball quickly achieve each step. You will be amazed at how saving just a few dollars here and there add up to so much. Granny always told me that if you watch your pennies, your dollars will take care of themselves and she was a very wise woman. Good luck with your adventure!
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Mozarkian,
Where would I find recipes to make good soaps? And also our own laundry detergent? The huge plastic containers that laundry detergent comes in really bother me - what a waste!!!
Thank you,
Nancy
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09/28/11, 04:25 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabitha
It gets mighty cold there, right? Those rocks are your friend. Little by little I would get some rock walls made. Check out Helen and Scott Nearing. They built their entire house out of rocks, at age 75. Those two were truly self sufficient, way up to real old age. Scott died at age 100. And they settled in a colder climate, Maine.
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Hi Tabitha,
Yes, it can get down to 35 below here! Not too often, but every couple of years we get a cold snap like that. I will look up the Nearings! Thank you,
Nancy
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09/28/11, 07:04 PM
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Ret. US Army
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 870
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If you have buildings with a south face, you could add roof and 3 walls to make a green house and grow aquponics (fish,vegs), add chickens, 3 cows, garden for what grows best. Wood fired water heat could add home heating, green house heat and a food dehydrator (quite large for 1/2 yrs worth of foods).
jim
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