Some hunters should be whacked alongside the head!

Yes I have my facts straight about how that specific group trains their bear dogs - in off season, they shoot the bear to injure it enough to get out of the tree then allow the dogs to maul it and get outta there before anyone comes upon them. My FIL has hunted bear for 35 years, he's not an idiot, that man only lives to hunt!

I also want to clarify I'm sure not all dog hunters are bad, just the group that lives by us and unfortunately hunts in the forest where DH is hunting, 60 miles N of us (there is a cut off line that runs approx half way N/S in WI where you can/cannot run dogs, so they all gotta go North, thus thats where most bear are anyway). This group of hunters has even hunted coyotes, fox, coon to the point of extinction in our area - honestly in 15 years I've seen ONE coyote and ONE coon w/in 5 miles of our home and one pair of fox that tried to den behind our property and were killed 2 weeks after we found them. It's kinda nice I don't have to EVER worry about predators and never even lock the chickens or goats up at night! But it's not right either.

These are cubs from this year - as one person quoted - cubs stay with the mom for 1.5 years. The "yearlings" are not sows with babies, we've been watching them on the camera for TWO months and there was never a cub present. Possibly the sow was mistakenly shot, and hopefully that's what happened - they ran her and the cubs hid. But it's just all to true that so many hunters, don't care what they shoot as long as its dead and they killed something - it's so common to see people shoot whitetails that are the current year's fawns. Let the darn things grow!

And the people that commented that just because you bait doesn't guarantee anything are right! It's labor intensive too - driving 60+ miles one way 2x a week to bring more bait (which can NOT be any source of meat or honey, most use bakery, granola, chocolate - bears LOVE chocolate), following all the DNR's rules, etc. the Wisconsin harvest is less than 40% too and I don't think anybody hunts bears without baiting - either just sitting or running bears over bait. We totally can't afford it, but this is the one "excessive" hunting thing my DH does, and so far we've shelled out over $1000 for fuel and bait, while doing this the last 2 months. I hope he gets one, but it's certainly not guaranteed. He never saw anything but a chickadee, a mouse and a hawk yesterday in 8 hours!

Nice variety of opinions here!

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ADGA Nigerian Dwarf and MDGA Mini Mancha goats for show, home use and pets www.dbarjacres.webs.com Located in North central Wisconsin

Yeah, but they would have to put forward actual effort on their part. Eek.
Myself, I genuinely do not understand the whole hunting thing. Seems to me it's one of those "follow the crowd" things.

It's already apparent that you probably wouldn't be interested in it when fresh despite some here knowing that you'd be missing a darned good meal. Meat properly packed in Ziplocks and/or vacuum packed remains quite edible for a number of years. With the previous method of wrapping in normal butcher paper, I could detect off tastes after only 6 months.

Martin

As for the OP's knowledge of a group of people deliberately violating the laws, there's always been a lot of advertising about the ease in reporting violations. Very easy to remember, 1-800-TIP-WDNR. I haven't seen anything here stating why it has not been reported. No excuse now since everyone here now knows who to call.

Martin

dbarjacres

I think he is retired but a fellow in "our" county by the name of Mike Gappa has a special interest in bears and their cubs.

If you are concerned about those cubs, he would be the person to contact.

I'm willing to bet he'd do a follow-up on their safety, or, he'll know who would.

only if putting a worm on a fishing hook kind of defeats the purpose of 'fishing'

Oooh, Whistler, good one!

I'm honestly scared to contact the DNR or cops ever again on those hunters as they take your info and that "bad" group all lives within 10 miles of my house. I'd LOVE for their hunting rights to be taken away, but not at the expense of damage to my property or person.

Tallpines, I'll try to find that man. thanks!

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ADGA Nigerian Dwarf and MDGA Mini Mancha goats for show, home use and pets www.dbarjacres.webs.com Located in North central Wisconsin

Actually, in terms of hours expended bear baiting is far more labor intensive than a spot and stalk scenario. I can't even begin to calculate the number of hours I spend gathering bait, preparing the sites, hauling it in, and ensuring that everything is tidied up afterwards. I begin preparing for bear season months before I begin hunting.

As mentioned elsewhere, stalking or tracking bears anywhere but western mountains or coastal plains is impossible. I've been hunting my whole life and have only ever walked up on one bear in woods. Add that to the fact they are asleep for much of the day.

Immediate gratification....hardly. Lazy...not a chance. Effort...I expend plenty.

Plus, I am already a pretty darn good tracker and have plenty of woodsman/outdoor skills. Certainly more than the average American and probably more than the average hunter.

Your mis-characterization couldn't be further from the truth.

We as sportsmen and women owe it to the future of our sport to ensure that we conduct ourselves respectfully. Just as we have an obligation to report a drunk driver on the highway, if we have actual knowledge of poaching- we owe it to the sport we love to report it. To stand idly by and allow poachers to continue unabated is no different than riding in the seat beside them.
If one simply wants to scream into the skies to vent their frustration, a more productive use of their time would be to grab a splitting maul and head out to the woodpile.

Please be informed now that reporting violations can be anonymous if you so choose. Failure to report such a grievous offense would make you just as guilty in the minds of the vast majority of sportsmen and hunters in this state.

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/es/en...nt/hotline.htm

Martin

Anything can be tracked almost anywhere if you are good enough.

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

Perhaps. Those who rely on tracking ability for their livelihood (e.g. Safari trackers) occasionally lose even wounded animals. Virtually nobody in the modern/western world can spend enough time to develop the same acuity as they possess.

Moreover, even if I was able to track a bear to his sleeping spot during the daytime and then kill it there would be those who decry the unsporting nature of such behavior. They would simply gloss over the hard work that went into tracking the bear in the first place.

Bears are masters at ambush and will know that they are being tracked long before one would be aware of their location. There are many hundreds of stories to back that up. Not at all wise to come face-to-face with an unhappy bear coming at you at 25 mph or faster and from only a few yards away!

Martin

Given the known facts, I would have come to the same initial conclusion. I would call the DNR and report seeing the cubs or better yet go in. As it gets closer to time to hibernate the boars will get nasty with them if they aren't big enough to keep from getting run off of food.

I have hunted all over the US with one trip to Africa. In Africa all meat killed was either used in the camp or given to locals in need. Game is very well managed in many areas there if they could get rid of the poachers. Guys like me coming in and spending a large chunk of money add to the local economy as well as putting money into the system for the game management.

There is nothing wrong with being allowed to hunt certain species over bait. Some states will allow a certain amount of tags to be sold, say 10k, but they are only allowing say 3k animals to be harvested. You have to call in to an automated system each morning to see if season is still open or if the number has been reached and season closed.

This is done because the state wildlife guys hae determined that a certain number of animals need to be removed to keep the population where they want it. Want to see what happens when too many people that don't want animals killed by hunters get a say? Look at New Jersey and black bears a few years back. The population was way out of control. Look at wolves in Idaho and Wyoming. The DNR wants to issue very limited tags for harvest, but the animal rights peeps keep blocking it up in court and the elk herds and cattle herds are getting hit to an unacceptable level.

It's obvious you know nothing at all about bear habitat or hunting

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Okay ..I admit I know nothing about hunting .

All I originally said was that it seemed wrong to me .

I don't see how that is something that can be argued with.

Some think it is fine, I think it is wrong..

Its defensive & controlling to insist that I should not think the way I do.

Probably the worst reason I can think of to justify anything..

My ancestors had slaves..and I think that was wrong too (despite the fact I have never owned a slave)

I second that

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, and by your own admission, your opinion is partially based on a lack of subject knowledge. Yet, somehow you felt confident launching character attacks (e.g. calling hunters lazy) towards other people.

Of course it is defensive to respond when someone attacks your character and especially so when they know little to nothing of which they speak.

As for your feelings about hunting in general, I think of it this way:

If you eat meat you can't complain about hunting. In both cases an animal is going to die by the hand of man in order to be eaten. So the moral standing of the purchaser/consumer is equivalent to that of the butcher and hunter. Almost all the rest of the details are largely inconsequential.

If you are a vegetarian who doesn't eat meat due to personal values...well you and I have incompatible value systems. You think that eating meat is morally wrong and I don't. Neither of us is going to change sides and there isn't a whole lot of middle ground to meet.