Bottom/Turn Plow Question

Thanks Geo, for answering all my questions!

Thanks EveryOne for your answers and input.

I have 2 fields that I do not use, about 20 acres. I been discing them a couple times a year because I do not want them to grow up. My BIL was going to plant the 8 acre field, he started discing but things came up and stopped him from getting it done. Now that field has 2ft tall grass and I know I got to do something with it which led to the questions above. After reading everyones replies, knowing I am not going to plant it, I decided to get me a bush hog and keep it cut instead of plowing/discing causing erosion, extra fuel etc. I can bush hog it 2 or 3 times a year, If I decide to plant part of it then I will prepare just the part I am going to use. I think this would be best. How does this sound to you all?


I know I could rent it to someone for a few bucks, but I had rather it just sit than have "people" coming and going on my farm even if I am not here. Now, No One is on my property unless they are with me. I have 2 many things on my property that could "Walk" of if I allowed a farm renter on my property any time he needs-----He might not bother anything but I would not know his helpers plus the back of my farm is where my "homesteading""things" are set-up and very few people even know things are set-up back there much less know that I have lived back there for years, and I want to keep all the Nosey people from back there. I guess I am a Very Private person when it comes to strangers.

They was telling at church of a guy who sold 277 big bales of hay for $87ea. Might think about that.

In case your thinking your stuff isnt grade hay. people are begging for cornstalk bales and cant get them here. My boy is going to try to get my bailer to tie with me so that we can bale my pasture, and maybe my hay ground. It was bailed this spring while I was trying to locate my water well which the bailer man had knocked off at an earlier time, so didnt know whats regrown back there or not. Had a wet spring. AND also my 12 acre bottom which I didnt farm this year, and has grown back with what looks like bunch grass, grass, and weeds. I said it dfidnt look like much. He said heck dad U oughta see what some people are bailing. Here, After returning from the sale I go to the first Sat of the month, I saw a couple people rakeing and bailing the state right of way. I called my boy ahead of me to ask if he had seen it. He had. He asked me if I saw what they were baleing, I said no. He said they were bailing plates and cups and other trash. So, ya might think about bailing it, or haveing somebody else bale it. Dont matter if squares or rounds, People will be begging for it by Mar. Boy said, at a sale he goes to, there was a guy with a simi. He was asking to buy any hay he could get to make a load and take to Tex.

I think we need to get some terminology straight here.
A plow breaks soil.
A Disc is a plow. (honest in some parts that's what they think of when you say Plow).
A Chisel plow is pretty much a shank going into the dirt.
A Moldboard plow is like the one in the Video, it turns over the soil.
Each individual unit that can break the soil is a "Bottom".
So the one in the video is a 2 bottom moldboard plow.
There are lots of combinations like a 8 shank chisel(OR a 8 bottom chisel)
or a 10 bottom disc plow (having 10 disc blades)
Now that we have that straight do you wanna reword your questions?

Ya got me lost when u said a disc is a plow. True, they have disc/plows, But, there more a disc than a actual plow. A Actual plow to my daffynition completly inverts the gound so that the bottom is up and the top is buried. A disc/plow only partially inverts the soil, leaving some on top to hold the ground in places of high winds, or maybe erosion. Here in Okieland, alla the natives call a plow a breaking blow. I dont consider that im breaking it when im plowing. Maybe thats cause I use rolling cutters to slice a piece of it off and then turn it over. I can see, as in the U tube vid the guy without coulters, it would look like he was breaking off a piece of the groiund.

No! I think with the Video most everyone understands what I was asking. Here in SC a disc is refered to as a disk. A bottom plow, well it is a bottom plow as seen in the video. I go to farm auctions alot and I have never heard of a "moldboard"-----I guess its according to where you are from and what people in that area call it-----like their father and Grandfather etc call it all their years.

Must be nice to have the luxury of being able to sit on resources, or plant it if you get around to it.

'Here' 20 acres would bring $150-300 an acre, depending on if it's a nice rectangle of fair soil, or a bit irregular in shape. That's $3,000 to $6,000 worth of income with no work on your part lost 'here' if we would do that. No one around here can afford to be modest or private.

The hay market is fickle & usually poor 'here', but 20 acres x2 cuttings x 20 acres would be 2000 bales or more (should be more), at $2 a bale with half for you that would be $2,000 income with you not doing much - and likely hay market is stronger where you live.


Yup, the brush hog 2-3 times a year will keep things in good shape until you get to farming the ground. I would plow the sod, disk it a time or 2 as it dries out, and harrow it to make a good seed bed. With clay soils that takes good timing in spring, if you have sandier stuff might not be so fussy.

--->Paul

Thanks Rambler

Let me ask another question I would like some input on. Being I do not want other people on my place Would it be worth it for me to buy a hay bailer and a "cutter" and turn this 20 acres (maybe 25 acres not using my hog pasture at this time) into a hayfield? I can sell hay on the front of the farm.
Is my 35HP tractor big enough for the bailer?
What other type equipment will I need?
My tractor has a frontend loader on it.
Wouldn't it be better to get a round bailer, less labor?
I have the time.

1. you will get something for the fuel you would need to mow it anyway

2. No, 35 will not run a Roller unless it is a tiny one.

3. Something to rake, tedd or fluff the hay depending on how thick and your weather.

4. Yes less labor but the baler is more expensive....James

When/why do you need to bottom plow?
Do you disk first or just turn under the grass and weeds?
What do you do next after bottom plowing?
How much time should be allowed between bottom plowing and planting?
If I disk the field good is that as good as bottom plowing?
Any Question I left out?



THANKS[/QUOTE]


1. Over the years the thatch (dead grass) builds up and it is good to roll it over and smooth the field out.
2. If there is a lot of sod yes, but it takes a heavy disk to cut sod.
3. Here we pull a heavy rigid harrow to knock down the ridges and break up the dirt clods. Some disk it but a disk will ridge unless set up good and well designed. Never disk if wet as it compacts the soil worse than any other piece of equipment, causes hardpan.
4. If the tall grass is chopped first and the sod is cut and turned under good and the newly plowed ground is knocked down instead of bringing the sod to the top again it can be planted the same day. If the sod is brought to the top it is best to let it wilt down and the dirt is knocked off the roots so the grass and weeds will die. A cultivator is good for this and best to let the soil dry and summer fallow it to kill the weeds and unwanted grass. A good rain is good between trips to let weed seeds sprout and then be brought to the top to dry out and die.
5. Disking is not as good as plowing, it does not turn the soil over burying the weeds and plant growth. Much harder to level for a good uniform seedbed for proper placement of seed. Depending on seed, a better stand is obtained when all the seed is placed at proper depth. A drill will get a much better stand than broadcasting with the same amount of seed. The better the seedbed, level and smooth the faster the hay can be made and will make a better quality hay. Nothing worse than sod spread all over the top of a seedbed making leveling impssible and seed planted in sods will not have optimum moisture and soil to sprout.

Making a good hay field is expensive and time consuming. A lot of money can be wasted on seed and fuel in a hurry....James

Dad & now I have baled 2000 to 6000 small square bales a year for 4 decades with a NH 270 baler & a IHC International 300 tractor - it's 35 hp. We pulled a hayrack behind it, or now I have a hay basket the bales slide up & into the basket to haul home.

In a tractor, you really really want live (or independent) pto, and multiple gears to choose from - the IHC 300 has 10 forward gears and independent pto, so works great. The same 35 hp tractor with a 4 speed or not live pto would be far less nice to bale with.

For a baler in older iron, you would look at a New Holland model 69 through 271 baler - all are kinda same smaller older but well made machines. Or in JD, the 14T or 24T models are the older good ones. A little newer in either color is better, but costs more & might take a bigger tractor. You could get one of those balers mentioned for $1000. Might find an ok one for $400, might have to spend $2500 if you gotta have one now deal. I'd e careful getting any other brand of baler from back then, they are just not as reliable, nor are the parts or troubleshooting experience available. You can find a good one, but much more of a crap shoot....

You need something to cut the hay - $500 gets you a good sickle mower, $1500 gets you a good mower conditioner. Again, you can luck out & find cheaper, or find you pay more if you need it in season gotta have it...

You need something to rake the hay, side rake. Can find some for $400 or so, good old New Holland more likely $600 to 800 or more.

You need to haul the bales, some folk drop bales on the ground & come back with a wagon to load them on, long way up to toss bales. Some have an extra person & pull a hayrack behind the baler & stack right away. Some have hay baslets the bales slide into, some have bale throwers with bale wagons, some use accumulators with loaders to pick up 8 or so bales at a time. Donno what route you want to go, you might have the trailer/wagon already, you might need to add $500 to the baler for a thrower & 1500 for a bale wagon....

You need to store bales somewhere, if you have a building, or need to work something out. You will make more selling bales in january than you will selling them out of the field, if you store them. Square bales need a roof over them.

A round baler is less work, but your tractor is too small and round bales typically sell for much less so you won't make as much gross. It's not a bad way to go tho, but perhaps doesn't fit you now? Round bales can store outdoors for a while, but they do lose value as they weather, if you are selling hay instead of feeding your own cattle, you'd do better with a building to store them for sure.

A short reply to a big topic.

--->Paul

Here goes. A bottom plow is the same thing as a turn plow. When they were using mules they were called turn plows. When tractors came along they weren't advertised by horsepower till late in the sixties, they were advertised by how big a set of turn plows they would pull...a farmall cub was rated for 1 12" plow,a 8n ford 2 12" bottoms, a Super A was sold with 1 16" bottom or 2 12", an ac D-15 carried 3 16", a D-17 was rated at 4 16" etc. People just started calling them bottom plows, least way from Georgia to Virginia they did.

As to a "moaldboard" being a plow it is exactly that, for a plow that has no moving parts and still turns soil one way has a "moaldboard" on it. The moaldboard being the large piece above the point that rolls the soil on over. A middlebuster has two moaldboard , one turns to the left and one to the right. A disc plow, or a new land tiller as its often called in this part of the world doesn't have a moaldboard, just has a big, heavy disc blade.

Why do you plow land? Here are a few reasons to plow land in your neck of the woods.
1. If you are using cultivators as your main weed control, you bury the weed seeds
deep enough that most of them don't come up or at least take longer to giving
you aand your crop a head start on the weeds.
2. You can build your top soil, buy plowing an inch or so deeper each year. If you
have a clay subsoil that's enough to mix in at the time. I moved here in 1998, and
the fields were rented out to tenant farmers. I learned then how spoiled I was
to the land my family had farmed for the last century. It was packed so tight
that my plows wouldn't stay in the ground in some spots. It has took several
years of turning in green crops and stubble to change the texture of the soil.
3. You can get rid of alot of pest by flipping your land in the fall and leaving it
open. Even better if you can do it just before a cold snap.

Boy I really appreciate your timely post as I have similar questions. For me, I have a 7 acre hay field that is very productive for around here and as much as I would love my own haying equipment it just doesnt pencil out. We hire a neighbor to hay our field and he charges $1.00 a square bale and a plate of the Mrs cookies.

As for plowing, we have a couple acres (and we are expanding) in a truck garden operation and our soil is rocky clay...with emphasis on rocky. I have been using a single bottom mould board plow and a middle buster to break through the soil and turn it which helps get through roots and exposes the rocks. We then pick the rocks and use the rocks for fence corner posts (I use old hog or cattle panels in a tube shape, anchor them with a T-post or two then fill them with the rocks). I then use a 5 toothed chisel plow to break up the big chunks then use a drag harrow to smooth it out and I plant winter wheat in late Sep or early Oct. In the spring I use a 3 pt tiller then use the middle buster to make the rows and it really seems to work well for that small of an operation.

As for the hay pasture, I have just been using the 5 toothed chisel plow to break it up a bit and then the drag harrow to smooh it out before I fertilize and seed. I am saving up for a disk harrow and a cultivator.

I am not even pretending I know what I am doing but am just sharing what has worked well for me. Gardens didnt do too well here this year but ours has been very abundant and we have sold enough produce to pay for all of the seed and fertilizer we used plus some. As for the pasture, ours will need lime soon and I have found out that the MO Dept of Conservation has some equipment you can rent for cheap and they have cost share programs available to help with the cost of fertilizer, lime, and some fencing as part of an erosion control program so you might check with your state.

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I agree with your reasons to plow. I gotta disagree with your statements that tractors wernt designated by hp till the 60s. Actually, Tractors, and maybe steam engines were first designated by drawbar and pulley hp before they got model numbers or names. McCormack Deering 10 - 20, 22 - 30, and others. Hart Parr Oliver 18 - 27. Those are all that I can correctly remember now, but ALL between 1900 and 1935 thereabouts had the drawbar and pulley hp as their model names.

O GOD, Thank You for getting me outa the ROCKY Ozarks and into NE Okla, and putting me on a farm that is 12 plowable without rocks.

Its really hard on equipment thats for sure.

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So what do you call a chisel plow?