Windmill question

oneokie, thanks for the info. I'll look them up for price comparison so I don't get bamboozled by the local guy when he tells me what I need to buy.

Do you have a link to the article?

It is posted now, I forgot to include the link when I first posted my reply.

Because of the important need for water I would not hesitate one minute to bring in from "outside the area" an expert to get the job done right........Since you seem to be having a problem with the locals

Jim while I agree with you in theory, money is an issue. And I also agree that without water we are in a situation 100% dependant on outside influences. We do have the pond that has some water in it, a crappy little creek, and the old well for which we have a hand pump, but none of those are what I want to depend on. That is why I go SOOOOO upset when hubby sent the well drillers away this morning, saying he just had too many questions that needed to be answered about the windmill before he spent the money to have the well drilled.

That is why I started this thread. If I can't get the guy I left a message for today to call me back, I'll call the guy who is 2 hrs away.

Once I have a good water source and my milk animals, I don't care what happens. Those are the last two pieces of my sufficiency puzzle. My kids will be taken care of, and that is my goal. Unfortunately I am not in control of things like this, and that has me in a flat panic.

Allow me to add that I think spending money on this is more important that spending money on anything else, especially before the value of the dollar goes down even further.

First you need to get some one who really know windmills,

figure out the size and the type of mill it is, MAKE.
the previous owner may have got a "LOOKS" mill, a semi working obsolete unit,
or a working mill, (parts are avable for nearly ever windmill out there

the two common units to day are Aermotor and there clones (many many copy's of them, some will interchange parts with a true Aermotor and some will not,

and the Demster mill,

there is some import mills as well, but not very common,

one you can request that the driller lay the tower over and drill the well under the mill,

NOT the Best but there are systems to transmit the pumping power horizontally via a set of levers and wires, (the Amish do it), and there if the distance is short a system of rocking shaft, to send the power a short distance horizontally,

but make sure the mill is properly anchored, it should have about 4 to 5 foot deep anchors with a cross angle on the bottom that is in concrete, if it does not then drill the well and reset it, over the well,

as far a water I have on mill that pumps water up 265 feet then horizontally over 2000 feet to the house,

windmills are not designed to pump into a pressure tank they usually pump in to a open NON pressurized tank, (if one want to pressurized the water either elevate the tank, or add a small jet pump for the house or what you want pressurized, (if your water is house potable water) use a storage tank and then have a over flow to the pond, when the tank is full it will fill the pond)

(my windmill pump into a 9x20 foot tank, the tank it self will provide water to the house the barn and the cattle with power, but I do have a jet pump and pressure tanks on the system as well, but with power I have about 7 pounds of pressure when the tank is full,

I will suggest you check out http://vintage-windmill-parts.com/ and you may have to registered, the forum there, more knowledgeable windmill persons (pro and hobby), but the purpose of the web site is to help other restore and use there windmills,

here are some Aermotor part and manuals, if this is the type of mill you have there is on line sources of many others, (at the old vintage windmill web page)
basic assembly and install manual as well as cylinder suggestions and other,
http://www.vintagewindmills.com/Reso.../aermotor1.pdf
Care and maintenance of
http://www.vintagewindmills.com/Reso.../aermotor3.pdf
tower instructions,
http://www.vintagewindmills.com/Reso.../aermotor2.pdf

I ahve rebuilt both of my mills and have move one of them on the place, extended the tower and so on,
here is when I sat up my 60 foot tower with a 12 foot mill on it,

here is when I took it down, from where I got it from,
(note the water tower building in it is a tank on the top section),
here is picture of a typical aermotor mill this is mine,

one more thing if a windmill is properly cared for they can and will last a long time
the mill in the picture is a 1932 mill, and was up for all the years and was only shut down for about 10 years between when my uncle stopped using it to when I bought it from the estate, so it has been pumping for nearly 80 years, and I would guess I was the first to rebuilt it, (put in babbitt bearings in the head)

most mills are set up using a boom truck to day, it is safer, and less possible damage to the tower and the head if some thing does not work right,
and people,

Dang, that thing is huge!!!!!!! That last pic is really a good one.

Thank you for all the information. I will certainly take a look at that windmill forum.

Dang I cant think of the name of mine. Its night. It was made in Neb

Fairbanks Morse was another popular make.

I would guess that it is a Fairbury. Monitor is also anther respected name that hasn't yet been mentioned. Dempster made many of the pumps that set on the well platform. A few years ago I was given several hardbound Dempster sales books. A joy to have.

You say you have a current well with a hand pump on it. Have you considered that what you are calling a hand pump may be the surface pump that we have been speaking of, and that it may have traditional drop pipe and rods into the well with a well cylinder on it?

That would eliminate a GREAT amount of cost if those are indeed traditional well equipment and not what many might call a hand pump from a very shallow water source. If they are all you would need would be additional pipe and rods to extend into a deeper well. Also----could the mill be moved over the current well? Also could you simply add a pumpjack to the hand pump and either pump with an electric motor or a small gas engine?

The fellow at Raymond has been in business many years and from all I have heard knows his business. Stocks many parts for mill heads, sections of fans, tails, towers, etc. Haven't a clue if he would even travel that far, but he may very well know someone in your own area that he would feel comfortable recommending.

If your particular area has Amish I expect many would offer guidance. Perhaps hire someone from Yoder, KS which is NW of Wichita and haul them and their well tools to do the job yourselves. Just a thought. Just keep in mind that pipe comes in 20 foot joints as does the pump rods.

__________________
My family---bEI

Yup Winda, its a Fairbury

Something else to consider so far as a windmill 'installer' is to find a local farmer or rancher who knows windmills.
Like I said, these things aren't rare...

A dozen ranches in four states, the only time we've ever hired windmill work done is when it's something that actually requires the well truck. Even raising and lowering pipe can be done with just a pulley on the tower and a pickup mounted winch.

__________________
~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

There is a vast difference ErinP between out west in KS and in the aforementioned area of deep south central Kansas. There is less wind in this area by quite a bit and closer to the OK border I would expect even less meaning a lot less mills in use which also means a lot less well folk.

Inconsistent wind has lead many a folk to convert to submersible pumps, convenience too as there is no one needed to tend the mill, change cylinder pump leathers, climb the tower for mill head oil, etc. Granted a mill is certainly less expensive to operate but many only look at the convenience factor. After all, in this day and age time is money to larger farm operations.

It has now been over 20 years since I had to help pull a pump as the saying goes. Our wells were 75 and 85 feet deep and even with a block and tackle they weren't fun to pull due to the sheer weight of pipe, rods, water, and cylinder.

__________________
My family---bEI

That's probably true, Windy. For that matter, even out here, submersibles are more and more common. More's the pity.

But even after 20 years, do you think you'd remember how to do it if needs be?
BTW, 80' isn't terribly deep... We had a windmill in northern SD that was 120' and DH remembers pulling one on the ranch he grew up on in NW Neb. that was 160!

__________________
~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

my wells are 265 feet and the other is deeper @ 280' and I pull them and work on them when needed, not that bad of a job,

I have used the block and tackle my grand father used and my dad used, but prefer a winch if the ropes get twisted you can have a mess in a hurry, (my grand father used horses my dad used a pickup or a tractor, when I used the block and tackle, I used the pickup and tided on to the front of the truck, one can see what is going on), but a winch is the better, and a swivel on the cable,

if one uses a open top cylinder, one can just pull the sucker rod and replace the leathers when needed, (about ever other year), and I have fiberglass sucker rods the 265' with the 5/8" after the first three, I can hand pull it, the 12 foot mill needs the 3/4" for and I have to winch pull a few more before I can hand pull the sucker rods up,

but the open top cylinders work for me, I have had good luck with them,

on the one mill I also have a electric, submersible pump under the cylinder so I can pump with out wind or if some thing else is wrong for a few days,

Its been since 64 thereabouts that we pulled ours. Yes, I could do it again. No, I hope I dont have to lol

I don't think I would have a bit of trouble working on a well if I had the tools.

I understand that as wells go 80 feet isn't of great depth. Would it make a difference if I told you that both of our wells were hand dug to that depth?

We never used any thing to pull on the block and tackle rope other than sheer arm muscles and will power. Expect that is partly why I don't relish it. Also pulling on the two 24 inch pipe wrenches isn't always fun it a joint refuses to loosen. Cheaters of course work.

I also remember the mess as you separated joints and even with a burlap bag wrapped around them water went everywhere and the pipe always had some rust on it that got onto clothing, hands, etc.

Fond remembrance, but more fun to think about than actually do.

__________________
My family---bEI

I dont remember getting overly wet. For whatever reason, there was a ledge at the bottom of the well. Im guessing that, as they got down as far as they could go in hip waders? they stood on that, and went as deep as they could bend over with the water riseing so as to make a small reserve. Anyway, when reenstalling the last section of pipe, wed always catch heck freom dad if the pipe landed on that ledge as it would bow.
Once, around or near the last time we changed the leathers, we had changed them, and was letting the pipe back down, one section at a time. The tower was long since gone, as the guy who built the place installed guttering on either side of the V, of the barn above it, and the horses stables side was nearly in a direct line top the well. At the lower end he had installed a elbow and that was it. Why he didnt bring the pipe from the milking parlor over to the horse stables and run it into a Y and bring it down and underground to the well and let it run in there is anybodys guess. But he hadnt, and over the years the dirt washed away from the back side of the barn to where they had built a ramp for the horses to get inside, and the cows had to wa.k uphill to get into the barn, and the legs were becomeing exposed on the mill. Finally in a high wind, it laid over perfectly flat. I dont think a thing was hurt on the mill head, but dad took it all apart and junked it. ANYWAY. as I said, the mill was gone. Had been for a good 10yrs. We was letting down. NOPE, I guess we had to be takeing up the pipe, and we was at the last section before the cyl. We had grandpa Adolphs pipe dog, as we didnt own one. What with I dont know how many people useing it, the teeth in the jaws had got old and dull. The last section was wet. Dad was on one knee, My younger brother likewise, and I was standing with gloves on pulling up the pipe. The cyl hit the bottom of the dog. Dad tapped the dogs head to bite it so I could get another grab. But the vibration, and me relaxing caused the pipe to go back down the well. I tried to grab and stop it, but couldnt till it ran the entire length of the pipe, I was crouched over, and when the collar hit the tight grip I had on the pipe , and with me braced as I was. It bent me over, but the more I bent the stronger I got, pulled it back up. It stopped with my hands in a death grip between the jaws of the dog and the collar

UPDATE


Heard from the windmill guy last night. He said he has NEVER been this busy. Seems people are wanting to have their own water source so they don't have to rely on rural water or electricity. He said he's got orders for new windmills coming in every week. Interesting, to say the least.

He will be out here in about five weeks to hook us up, sooner if someone backs out. Said from drilling the well to moving the windmill, it will cost us around 800.00. FAR less than I imagined.

Thank you all for your help and information.