Question for parents of non-immunized children..

I hear you therunbunch BUT what you are then asking is for only one side of a very controversial topic and basically all you wanted then were people to sing "rah rah rah" for non-vaxing, basically perpetuating the old wives tales I find so common, I find this a lot really, non-vaxer's ONLY want to hear from people that only support their particular point of view on the matter and why many refuse to even admit their child actually "caught" something that was preventable or that death from common diseases is even "real".

For my part I checked out every book in the library in support of non-vaccinating, I didn't find anything in there that supported any science at all. I did do a slower schedule, just as a precaution and I didn't do some of the recommended, like Hep B. They do Hep B because they worry they won't get them back as teenagers but mine will be back, so it was a non issue. I did all the childhood vaccines that could potentially kill as infants and small toddlers because I wanted mine to make it out of childhood. Plus, like I said, almost no one vaccinates besides me, so there was a lot more pressure if I wanted to protect my infant from something like Whooping Cough.

Like I said, to each their own but no, non vaccinated children are not any less sick then vaccinated children if you account for everything else in families lifestyles.

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Idleness is leisure gone to seed

Hey now, not all of us flip our lids at different viewpoints.

There are folks who only want to hear their own opinion reflected on every issue. *shrug*

Was only trying to discuss "like-minded" issues with "like-minded" people. That's why I said I'd like a "no debate" thread on this. I could care less what other people do with their own families, I was trying to talk to others who had a lifestyle similar to ours. Didn't need someone saying "Vaccines not necessary? I guess not.... if you don't mind young kids dying like they did when my mom was young. You'd also have to be OK with permanent disability and houses that must be quarantined because of the measles, mumps, etc. "

Just because we choose not to shoot our kids up with God knows what doesn't mean we want them to die young. It was rude and uncalled for. I can handle difference of opinion but suggesting we don't care about our children crosses a line. If "question for parents of NON-IMMUNIZED children" doesn't apply to you then why post unless you want to stir things up?

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A closed mouth gathers no foot.

We have almost forty nine thousand members on this forum (at least that is what it says at the bottom of the front page). Many of which have very different opinions from your own. When you post a question on a public forum like this, you sometimes get answers that you don't like, just comes with the territory.

Have you checked out the Mothering forums? You might want to post your question on those boards, you might find more like minded parents over there, on this issue.

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Idleness is leisure gone to seed

Yes, that's very true. Parents are responsible for their children and get to make decisions best for their families. It doesn't make any sense to start a thread and expect everyone to agree. Non-vaccinators have the right to their opinions and to do what's right for their families. I do not understand why many, not all, who do not vaccinate don't want to hear the opinions of those who do. I've not seen one scholarly study saying that non-vaccination is better for our children. Many people do well without being vaccinated but that has a lot to do with herd immunity.

I'm sorry, therunbunch, but we cannot control what others say. If we don't want to hear an opinion other than our own we shouldn't post on forums. I didn't say anything inflammatory, say anything bad about you, or say that you didn't have the right to do as you see fit. Personally, I think debate is a good thing. It causes us to look at our own opinions more carefully. Saying that I was rude was uncalled for. Differing opinions are not stirring the pot. Calling people names is stirring the pot.

I think morningstar has a great idea. You're far less likely to have a thread that causes debate if you post to like minded people. This forum is comprised of those who are very conservative, very liberal, very isolated, those off the grid, city dwellers, etc. That's one reason I really like it.

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Moms don't look at things like normal people.
-----DD

You don't think this might be offensive to people who do vaccinate?

Wow.. well, from reading my own original post I didn't realize I had asked for anyone's opinion on anything. I asked when the last time your non-immunized child was sick. But.. you're right.. you can't control anything others say... but you've proven that people like to interject their opinions whether they are asked for or not. I'll step out of the conversation I guess and let you guys debate then, that's not why I came here nor was it the purpose of the thread.

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A closed mouth gathers no foot.

Lisa, I get a little irked when folks pounce on *anything* about parenting as their way or the highway, even when they're supporting what I do! LOL There's no need to put other folks down, especially a bunch of parents who, though they choose differently, love their kids too.

There's no perfect formula for raising kids, you just read and research and hope you chose best.

TRB, discussions evolve and people explore different ways of thinking than their own on forums, as in real life. Threads drift, people have emotional responses to things like this. Especially vaccines, where there really isn't a clear "Do this and always get Y" formula, and it's people's kids we're talking about. Bah.

See, we even have this guy to prove it. LOL... though maybe Mr Hiding-Behind-the-Wall is more appropriate...

I took Lisa's comment to mean that if it wasn't okay for Joshie to post what she did, why was it okay for TheRunBunch to post what she did, as both comments could cause the other party to take offense.

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" It's better to ride even if you get thrown, than to wind up just wishin' ya had."

Chris Ledoux

If your titers had been low, you would have just been given another immunization.

With that said, I never realized that was possible until I gave birth to my first and was told I had low titers for DTaP and was given a shot. I had thought once you were vax'd as a child that was that. Ha, was I wrong and I would wager highly that a lot of adults think the same way. I was given an MMR upon the birth of my 3rd child, 10 years later.

Just and FYI. A low titer does not mean you are not immune. A titer measures circulating antibodies at the time the test is taken. If you have not recently been exposed to the disease they are titering for, you will come out with a low reading, even if you are 100% immune. This is why titers are not a reliable guage of immunity.

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"For if you start dancing on tables, fanning yourself, feeling sleepy when you pick up a book... making love whenever you feel like it, then you know. The south has got you.”

For what it's worth, we don't "immunize" for tetanus, either, and we've had our fair share of pokes and jabs.
Learned from the Amish, some years ago, that a hot epsom salt soak does wonders.
....and it must.

My issue with immunization is multifaceted.
But my main contention is the faith issue that Texican spoke of.
I have ZERO faith in that a body of strangers, some thousands of miles and light years in like-mind-set away, is going to have my offsprings' best interests in mind when they manufacture their potions.
Every last vaccine manufacturer on the planet is in bed with the FDA, and when they decide to mass-exterminate, they may already have step one of a two or three part kill- off installed in the bodies of millions.

No thanks.

Another contention is that the word for witchcraft, as found in the Bible, comes from the Greek word "pharmakeia". It means "sorcery" and "witchcraft". The word "druggist" or "pharmacist" comes from the Greek word "pharmakon" meaning "poisoner".

No thanks.

I'll happily take the verbal abuse from those who've chosen to remain brainwashed by the icons of their dark professions.

It is a given that the high road in life is paved by the cobblestones chucked up at the travelers thereon by the bottom feeders who've chosen mediocrity, below.

Was that too contentious ?

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“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

I disagree.

IMO the most likely cause for a population correction in humans will come from unvaccinated people such as yourself who let preventable deadly disease organisms (bugs) use their bodies as incubators. Whenever a bug replicates there is a chance of mutation. Most of the time the mutation is harmless but the chance always exists that the next time a bug replicates it will produce a mutation that is both deadly and easily spread. By having more human incubators producing more bugs with more replications the greater the odds that a deadly mutation will be produced.

In other words people who don't vaccinate and could do so safely are putting the rest of us at risk.

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"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin

So, your last statement in bold, is just your opinion.
You made your decision to vaccinate, based upon your opinion.
And you are entitled to it.
Just like Forerunner, is entitled to his.
And his decision NOT to vaccinate was based upon more than just his opinion.

I guess I go back to the OP.
She was seeking input from families who DO NOT vaccinate.

I think if people who have knowledge, and links that show how awesome vaccines are, brought that here and posted it.....then we could see both sides of the story, and then make an educated decision.

But because we are silly humans, who love controversy, divisions, arrogance, and the like, folks (on both sides) want to post their OPINION like it's gospel.
Then folks who were following the few who presented useful information.....they quit following the thread. Too much dang drama.
Oy vey.

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I am sure of two things: There is a God, and I am not Him.
The movie Rudy

Just curious.. how many of you educated pro-vaccinators have researched what is IN vaccines? Google some of your favorite vaccination's ingredients.

Here's a fun fact.. 7 of the ones I found had the "ingredient": "diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue".

Yummy, that sounds like something I want to inject into my children. I'll do some more digging around and see what other fun stuff is in those pretty vials.

Ingredients...

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A closed mouth gathers no foot.

I took a class in Vet tech school that discussed the pro/con of vaccinations, part of the school's belief that we needed to learn to work with clients who preferred more natural methods of pet care (including chiropractic and acupuncture). So a 3-credit college class, covering manufacture of vaccinations, how vaccinations work, the immune response, dangers of overvaccination, etc etc. Granted this was pet vaccinations, but they are made in the same manner as human vaccinations.

A few years later, when I was in the process of adopting my DD from India, it was mentioned by my case worker that many doctors wanted to revaccinate children when they came home, due to an uncertain vaccination history in India. So I embarked on an intensive study of vaccinations in humans... spent months on the internet, reading in the library, talked to about a dozen friends who were nurses/PA's, hit up my veterinary connections, etc. I essentially took my background in animal medicine and added months of research into the topic as it applies to humans.

I was looking for what would be best for my kids.... I'm into a blend of modern and ancient medicines, so I didn't approach the issue with a pre-determined opinion. I looked at both sides of the issue from both a scientific and anecdotal aspect. Talked to people who believe vaccinations are poison, talked to people who vaccinated their kids for everything under the sun.

Here are my conclusions: Yes, overvaccination can cause serious health issues. No, not vaccinating your kids at all is not the answer.

I believe in asking the doctor lots of questions when a vaccine is to be given, then keeping the proper schedule (spacing the vaccinations at the appropriate rate) for maximum efficacy, along supporting your child's immune system thru proper nutrition and exercise.

My role as Mom is to protect my kids.... if I send them outside without bike helmets and they fall off and crack open their heads, its on me. I believe that if my child were to catch a disease that I could have prevented by vaccination, I would be devistated for this reason - because I didn't do my job as Mom. What if my kid passes along measles to her classmate with a compromised immune system, and that kid dies? I wouldn't be able to sleep at night, knowing that my actions directly resulted in the death of someone else's precious child.

I don't blindly accept everything that the doctor's tell me. I do believe that modern medicine has saved countless lives, and people today who are choosing not to vaccinate have never lived in times where the diseases we vaccinate for now killed children every day. Ask your grandparents how common it used to be for a mother to give birth to 8 kids, and only 1 or 2 would live to adulthood. Modern medicine, including vaccinations, have made this a thing of the past, and as a mother I'm grateful for that!

If you give your child any prescriptions, you're essentially giving them poison too. I'm much more reluctant to give my kids meds than I am to vaccinate them. Do you know how many kids die each year as a result of side effects brought on by prescriptions??? Really, if you don't vaccinate because the things in there are poison, but you give your kids prescription meds, then IMO you need to do some scientific research and see which one harms more children, and which benefits more children.

There is a middle ground here.

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Miniature Bull Terriers
www.PatronusMiniBulls.com
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If the administering doctor/nurse, the floor manager for that shift, the hospital board of directors and every individual involved in the manufacture, promotion and legislation involving those foreign substances were to sign off in that if any damage resulted from my reluctantly given consent to them pumping their highly profitable product into the bodies of my children I could summarily place a bullet between each of their eyes.......

Funny that the guinea pigs are expected to take all the risk.
There are two children, close to me, who were very lively, bright-eyed and energetic right up until they got their first "immunizations".
Within hours, both began to decline into what ended up being acute autism.
One is the daughter of a nurse, the other, the daughter of a highly educated military chemist. There is no middle ground for them, now.

Middle ground is for fence riders.
If you won't get off the fence, time and life will knock you off at some point.

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“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

Yeah...I read your posts about your bull mastiff so I'm not particularly impressed when you get all holier than thou about other people putting their children at risk.

No it is not my opinion. It is fact supported by evidence not some wishful thinking or conspiracy theory.

Vaccines are like seatbelts. They aren't perfect because humans aren't perfect and vary from one individual to another but the facts show without question that they save far more lives than they take.

Not vaccinating allows people to become infected and turns them into incubators for the bug where there is always a chance the bug can mutate into something that can have serious impacts on our population.

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"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin

What about people who have kids who either die or are permanently disabled after suffering from a disease that could have been prevented by a vaccination? There is no more middle ground for them, either

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Miniature Bull Terriers
www.PatronusMiniBulls.com
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