Question for parents of non-immunized children..

My fully vaccinated, never sick, no allergies child went to public school and an after-school activity center, played team sports, swam in the ocean, camped in Mexico and ate the food there. My house was always full of kids because all of his friends wanted to spend their time at my house, plus I aways had a pack of teenage girls because I had horses.

I refused to have a television in my house, so the children were very active and all food was home cooked, but not organic.

We stopped immunizing after our oldest showed signs of autism following his third round of shots. The younger 2 only had 1 or 2 sets of shots each although the whole family has had tetanus shots. We also have eaten a very healthy diet with short lapses over the years and we have lived on an organic farm for the last 10 years eating mainly all our own food. We have all been very healthy except my oldest who has the usual allergy and food issues that go along with the autism spectrum. I fully believe they will prove it is at least partly a food issue in the end.

I think healthy food and a healthy lifestyle with as little western medical intervention is the best possible choice for adults and children. All three of my sons are grown now and they all had very few illnesses as children. They all had chicken pox, when the first one got it we made sure they all played together so the other 2 would get it too. Far better to get it as a kid than later!

In the end I think food is the biggest factor, that and exposure to dirt and bacteria and pollen and all the other things people try to avoid today. You can't build a healthy immune system unless you expose it to things it has to fight. So our chosen lifestyles here probably have more to do with the health of our children than whether or not we got them vaccinated.

Not sure what posts you're referring to, but there are vaccines for both viral and bacterial caused diseases.

I don't have children so I can't answer the OP about them but I can answer about myself. When I was a child, I got all of the recommended shots. They did not have the chicken pox vaccine then but I had chicken pox when I was young so I'm not worried about getting it again. I have never taken a flu or pneumonia shot and do not intend to. I always have and always will decline the hep shots. When they were new, I had a doctor tell me that there was not enough evidence yet that a person could not get hepatitis from the hep shots, and I confess I have not done more research since then to see if there is better evidence now - but I don't feel a need to take those shots either. When I started college, the college suggested the meningitis vaccine. My mom asked my doctor then and he told her he did not recommend it (not that he was against it, he just didn't see a need to push it) so I did not take that one either.

I used to get sick all the time. I used to have the flu once a year and when I was younger I stayed sick with allergies and sinus infections. I never picked up any of the viruses that my vaccines were for, but then I don't know for sure if I was ever exposed to those things either. I do know that I don't get sick now nearly as often as I used to. I haven't had the flu in several years and though I do occasionally have a bout of allergies or sinus drainage, I haven't been nearly as sick with that as I used to get either. I attribute most of my better health now to several things. For one, I stopped using antibacterial soap. I do not buy it and only use it if there is no alternative. I am also more aware of what I touch and I make certain that I do not touch my face after touching things in public (such as door knobs, hand rails, grocery carts, etc.). I try to eat healthier now than I did in college, but the only real difference between how I eat now vs. how I ate when I was a child, is that I eat more "real" foods now. I use real butter, drink raw milk, drink kefir, and use sea salt. We always ate vegetables from our garden when I was younger and that's no different now.

I think a big part of staying healthy is a combination of preventing the big things (like polio, measles, etc.) and trying to maintain a healthy but not sterile environment. Exposure to bacteria and viruses helps to build a healthy immune system.

Getting measles can also cause deafness. Are you prepared to deal with a deaf child whose hearing has been destroyed beyond repair?

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Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett

My son got the polio drop when he was 3, but has had no other vaccinations. He gets a sore throat/cold occasionally, directly attributable to getting chilled from leaving his coat at school, or from eating too much candy. He is (knock on wood) healthy as a horse.

All of my kids had all of the vaccinations except for chicken pox. The last few did because no one is getting it anymore & no way to expose them. That being said, my kids are rarely sick. 2 years ago they closed my daughter's school because of the H1N1 flu. She had it & was home for 3 days. 1 other kid caught it & no one else. My husband has not missed work in years. Flu goes around all the time at school & yet the kids don't get it or bring it home. Of course they are out in the dirt on the farm getting exposed to lots of germs & we also drink raw milk!
I think a lot of it has more to do with genetics than anything else. No different than the animals I raise. I cull out the sickly ones & breed the best stock. This in turn gives me hardy, disease resistant animals. I am in no way saying people should be culled or certain ones should not have kids. So don't take that post wrong. I just think a lot of it is in the genetics. Some people are healthier than others even when they follow the same exact diet, excercise, etc. I knew a guy that lived to be in his 90's that was never sick & had never seen a doctor until a few months before his death. Actually I know several people that way.

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I can't believe I deleted it!

True, but most of the common bacterial infections that people are talking about when they eat food in Mexico and play outside, have nothing to do with vaccines.

As with most things, there are pluses and minuses and no cut and dry answer on vaccines. Some have saved countless lives and rid us of some horrible diseases (small-pox, polio) while in some cases they may not be necessary (I'm thinking of the chicken pox vaccine).

Chris

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Chris DeVries
Common Ground CSA
http://csa.amandadevries.com

I have immunized all my children....

However a very good friend of mine immunized his 1st child only, then didn't immunize the other 3 who were born after him. They home school, mom is a SAHM, dad works as a teacher in the public school system.

About 2 or 3 years ago, the youngest came down with whooping cough. Not sure where she got it, but she was sick something awful She gave it to the other 2 younger kids. All 3 of these were the kids who were not vaccinated. By the time it was all said and done, the entire family had whooping cough, although Mom/Dad/vaccinated older son had a mild case, while the 3 non-vaccinated children all ended up in the hospital.

I also know that one of their non-vaccinated children had chronic strep throat and had her tonisils removed; another non-vaccinated child had to have tubes put in his ears because of constant ear infections, and the youngest seems to always have a cold (could be allergies, I guess, but the poor thing is always sniffling/sneezing). The healthiest of their 4 children, by far, is the oldest - the one who was vaccinated.

I think if there were to be a scientific comparison of vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated children, and you factored in things like attendance in daycare / public schools, diet, being allowed to play outside in the dirt, etc, you'd find that neither group has the advantage over the other in regards to day-to-day illnesses. Of course this theory is based soley on my casual observations of both immunized and non-immunized kids of dozens of friends of mine....YMMV

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Miniature Bull Terriers
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I'm probably older than you, but I never had measle vaccines, mump vaccines, chicken pox vaccines, etc. You live through those diseases and are immune for life. What's going to happen to all those kids who have low titers of 10-15 from the vaccines when they get older and the titer wanes? We are going to have 50yo people with measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox..... And as they get older, people are sicker from those childhood diseases. During my last pregnancy my rubella titer was over 400. They were amazed because they were use to seeing titers around 10-20 because most child bearing (young) women had simply had the vaccine. I'm older, I had the disease.
Vaccines are not the be all end all of health. There are very bad things about them too.

My kids did have dt when they were little, no pertussis because I don't trust that vaccine. My oldest son ended up having an MMR when he was in his mid 20s for the hospital he works at. My younger kids never had any of the newer vaccines or the lead testing done, but did have the dt when they were infants. Nobody ever had the HIB or the VD vaccine or the vaccine for hepB when they were kids, but I think my oldest son had that Hep B for his job as a paramedic.

I wanted to add all but one had chicken pox, and none of them have ever been seriously ill with anything.

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Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Whooping cough now has 2 varieties and the vaccine doesn't always work. So even vaccinated kids get it sometimes.

I've been vaccinated for all the usual stuff, plus Hep A, Hep B, and Rabies (propholactic).

If I eat right and remember to eat my daily yogurt, I don't get sick. When I eat crap, I get sick.

My girls have both been given all the recommended childhood vaccinations, including Hep A and Hep B. When they eat right and especially remember to eat their daily yogurt, they don't get sick. When they eat crap, they get sick.

We're talking 2 different things here.... 1) Getting diseases that Vaccinations are designed to protect you against, 2) getting sick with things that there are no vaccinations for - strep throat, common colds, ear infections.

If I'm reading the OP correctly, TRB wanted to know if children who did not receive vaccinations were less likely to get sick with things that vaccinations are not designed to protect you against, like the common cold & ear infections (#2 above).

Vaccinations don't protect from everything, and nobody here has claimed that getting vaccinated made their kid invincible from every disease/virus under the sun.

As I stated earlier, I strongly believe that kids who exercise regularly, play in the dirt, eat healthy foods, and practice good hygene are less likely to get colds / infections / viruses (#2 above)- regardless of whether they have been vaccinated or not.

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Miniature Bull Terriers
www.PatronusMiniBulls.com
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I thought my daughter in law was the only one that came from a family who does this. What is odd is that she told me she thinks its awful that people don't have their pets vaccinated!? Do you also believe people should have their pets and livestock protected from disease but not people??? Where did this come from? I waited till my children were at least a year before they got their shots, and I also get my animals shots to. But I am very interested in why people do this. I am not trying to be snarky just would like to understand the reasoning. Thank you.

FWIW I have friends who don't vaccinate their own children but do vaccinate their dogs....and friends who vaccinate their own kids, but choose to not vaccinate their dogs.

When I was adopting my DD from India I did a ton of research into childhood vaccinations, because there were questions as to whether they would want to revaccinate her when she got stateside. I also have a degree as a licensed vet tech and I've taken classes designed to teach those in the veterinary field the fine line between necessary vaccinations in pets and overvaccination of pets, and the dangers of both. So I've looked at both ends of this issue from all angles, and I made decisions for my children/pets that I'm comfortable with.

To each their own.....

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Miniature Bull Terriers
www.PatronusMiniBulls.com
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No vaccine has a 100 percent guarantee. But they work much better than no vaccines especially over the entire population to ensure herd immunity. Regardless of what Funky Pioneer...er, NamasteMama says.

“We stopped immunizing after our oldest showed signs of autism following his third round of shots.”

Bunk. There is absolutely no connection. The dramatic increase in Autism diagnosis is due to recent identification/awareness. Before, your kid would simply be retarded. The doctor that wrote a paper connecting immunizations to Autism has since admitted his falsifications.

Patt, believe what you want, after all, you and I disagree on everything else. No sense agreeing on this and breaking our tradition.

Since there are some risks with everything, I guess there is some validity in a plan where the whole population gets vaccinated and your family does not. That plan only works until others take your selfish plan.

If only a few people chose to get vaccinated from small pox, we’d still be burying thousands.

I think the OP wants to get responses from others that have made the same choice and have healthy children. The tiny cross section of folks here at Homesteadingtoday, isn’t representative of the population of this country and surely not the world in general.

My oldest son and two close friends were raised with raw milk and don’t have any tooth fillings. It would be easy for me to draw some conclusions based on this real-life knowledge. But, in the real world, my observations are meaningless. Just as a few replies here don’t reflect reality at large.

I worked in a prison, with hundreds of guys that don’t cover their mouths when they cough and often times aren’t in the best of health. My wife drove a school bus, filled with children that are often coughing and sneezing all over. I’ve had all the normal immunizations. I eat too many potato chips and sweet rolls. I keep active. I haven’t had any sickness in over a decade. What does that mean? Nothing.

Haypoint, your post has been the best so far... This point you make is key. If everyone else is vaccinated, then the risks for parents who choose not to is very low. If these diseases are common and a serious risk, not getting vaccinated would be possibly deadly.

I've gone back and forth on this one, but for the good of everyone, I think most vaccines are necessary. I also don't think vaccines have the same (possible negative) effect on the immune system that antibiotics do.

Now that we have this topic covered, let's start talking about cellphones and brain cancer, can we?

Chris

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Chris DeVries
Common Ground CSA
http://csa.amandadevries.com

It doesn't make much difference to me whether parents vaccinate their children or not, as long as I don't have to listen to them snivel if their child dies from a disease they chose not to vaccinate against. You make you choice, you take your chances, no sympathy if you choose wrong.

It does make a difference to me when parents trot their feverish, flu infected children around the shops and super markets, sneezing and wiping snotty noses on the handles of the shopping carts. Attention parents: when the child's face is flushed red with fever and he can't breathe, leave him home in a warm bed. While generosity is admirable, sharing flu germs is not.

I would agree with this, except that there is a risk that the unvaccinated child will infect MY vaccinated child with measles, and MY child will suffer or die as a result.

Choosing to not vaccinate your kid is kind of like making the decision to not insure your car. As long as you don't cause an accident, its not a big deal. But when you slide on a patch of ice and hit my vehicle, you're gonna be in a world of hurt financially, and you could have prevented it by insuring your car. Not the best example in the world, but I'm willing to bet its only a matter of time before the vaccinated kids' parents sue the parent of the unvaccinated kid for their vaccinated kid's medical expenses that resulted from being given the measles. Something to think about......

http://www.necn.com/06/01/11/New-mea...faf9c151929615

This was in my state, not too far from where I live, and its been all over the news. My DD's school sent home a letter saying that ALL unvaccinated children were prohibited from attending school or any school functions for 3 weeks, and advised parents of vaccinated children to not allow our kids to play with any friends who were not properly vaccinated against measles.

Basically 1 unvaccinated child travelled out of the country and brought measles back, infecting 8+ people who had been vaccinated.

This is the way it was explained to us in Vet Tech School: If you're vaccinated, short-term casual exposure to the disease probably won't infect you. In most cases, yur antibodies will recognize it and fight it off before it grabs hold....so a 5-minute exposure across the room from someone who has measles probably will not result in you being infected. But when you have never been vaccinated, there is a significantly greater chance that same 5-minute exposure will cause you to become infected; because your immune system is being faced with something it has never seen before, and by the time it figures out that its got a fight on its hands the disease has grabbed hold.

It used to be a practice to send in people who were vaccinated to make a human barrier around infected populations. If vaccinated people literally stand between the infected communnity and other non-vaccinated persons, the disease has no way to spread from that community to the next. Quarantine, run by vaccinated persons, is effective for this very reason.

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Miniature Bull Terriers
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[QUOTE=oregon woodsmok;5168910]It doesn't make much difference to me whether parents vaccinate their children or not, as long as I don't have to listen to them snivel if their child dies from a disease they chose not to vaccinate against. You make you choice, you take your chances, no sympathy if you choose wrong.

If someone's child, their baby they did the best the knew for, DIED, you extend no sympathy?

I usually don't say a word on these things, I'm rather "to each their own" about parenting when it comes to iffy things like vaccination.

I was fully vaccinated as a child and horribly sick all winter, every winter. Meh. I also was fed crap and never saw a doctor except for school-required jabs.

There are tons of factors that play into whether you get sick or not. BTW, for the poster concerned, large doses of Vitamin A have been seen to cure measles. Just FYI.

And... if you've ever looked at the ingredients list on the CDC... mercury is present in many. You have research and make your own best choice and hope you choose rightly. The end.

Personally, I think the things are terribly overused, but am glad they exist. If people fed their children healthy food, breastfed, washed their dang hands (NO ONE does, I swear...), and exercised, we'd be much better off. But no... it's pizza for dinner, TV for five hours, and here's a pill to fix what ails you. Grand plan, that.