Is this typical of commercial dairy farmers??

I think the contention lies in the fact there is no way to test for the presence of the artificial hormone. It's indistinguishable from the naturally-occurring one. Companies that market rBST-free milk require their farmers to sign a contract stating they won't use Posilac, but there's no way to verify that they're holding up their end of the bargain.

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"I love all of this mud," said no one, ever.

I make no pretense about knowing all about the dairy busness that there is to know, but I do believe I can taste the difference in fluid milk. That is why I have been buying milk from Grass Point Farms. (www.grasspoint.com) This is milk from certified grass farm standard production, by family ownership. Okay, this may be a lot of carton/label hype, but I do know it tastes better to me. Thus, I am willing to pay a premium price--by limiting the amount I buy and drink each week.

I grew up milking cows and drinking the milk from same, so I have some idea of what top quality milk should taste like. There is a wide quality range in milk standards, so my opinion is that what you get usually from the megacow, megastore jugs on the grocery shelf is at the bottom level(perfectly acceptable to the average consumer, but bottom of the standard). Ironic that these jugs fill up 99% of the case space, and Grass Point milk is down on the bottom rack, with enough shelf space for about ten half gallons of two percent and ten half gallons of fat free.

We allowed our cows to range on pasture as good as we could afford, we fed them good hay, free choice all winter, and they always got a ration of mixed grains, molasses, and supplements in the manger at milking time. We had mixed breed, high butterfat cows, not Holsteins, in our family's tiny herd.

Today's superbred Holstein cows get corn silage, prefermented, augered out to them on a concrete aisle day after day as they stand there....... I believe that may be the reason the milk in the dairy case tastes so flat to me, with an iodine like flavor. Maybe, instead of r-bst, some vanilla should be added, just like strawberry and chocolate syrup is added into the school lunch program milk. Meanwhile, I'll keep buying Grass Point brand.....

As the old IBM sign used to say, "Garbage in, garbage out."

An opinion from:

geo

they sound like comments that an anti big farm person cooked up to make big farmers sound like uncaring louts.

r-bst is artificial but there is no scientific way to tell which is which.
there have been some studies that point to an elevation in another component when on rbst but that other component can be elevated at other times naturally.

most of any taste problems when comparing grass fed to the stuff from the store is because the milk plant will skim all the good stuff and still keep just enough in to call it whole.

You keep buying that grass point....I'll tell all the producers that sock the corn silage in the cows you are supporting them. And believe me I've seen whole herds of grass point animals getting their daily dose of silage

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Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

I am a dairy farmer. I drink milk from the bulk tank. I will not allow r-bst on our farm and DH has told the Monsanto sales people who keep insisting that we try it that they can deal with me (they haven't come back). We do not push our cows and have had some in the heard for well over 5 years with 3 generations milking at the same time. I believe that milk should be labeled, people have the right to make an informed choice about what they eat. If they don't care that is fine, but let's not punish the ones who do care. R-bst is a hormone and anyone who thinks that all the extra hormones that are being added to our food are not making any difference needs to do some reading up on the effects these hormones are having on our children.

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Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup

Grass fed cows are fine for a niche market but it is an extremely inefficient way of producing milk. Most farmers would have to double or triple the size of their herd to get the same level of production. That would waste a lot of land and other resources.

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Worth reading twice. Hoping that those that stand against it will eventually understand that important point. How do you regulate something that is in all cows naturally and the artificial is virtually the same?

Thank you for writing about your feelings.

r-bst isn't having any effect on children or adults. Please supply data that proves otherwise. Over-feeding has a large effect on our kids. r-bst doesn't.

r-bst is a management tool. You chose to bypass that tool. Many dairies do.

Correct. Those that operate dairies to earn a living, must get the most return from their investment. Maintaining a herd that produces half the potential production puts farmers at a great disadvantage. Often they fail and larger operations buy their farm.

Cows that eat leeks produce leeky milk. i'd guess grass fed cows produce milk that has a flavor unfamiliar to most consumers.

[QUOTE=rambler;5160418]Can you explain #3 better yourself? I'm in Minnesota, grazing season is May 15th through October, and the middle of August often gets terrible dry and short dry grass of low protien value.... How _do_ you create pure grass fed milk in a cold climate? I'm not sure how one does it, I am curious? It is not a _stupid_ idea, wrong to word it like that; but then, how does it work?

I am no expert on it.......in the summer, it usually involves rotational grazing so that the cows are on the grass at its optimal value of nutrition.

I believe that most Grass-based farmers do not feed any grain to their cows.

A couple of the grass-based farmers plant forages for their cows that will be grazed after the grass is done for the year. One of them will grown a special type of turnip.......the green tops are about 18" tall. He tells me that the cows eat the greens and then go back an 'dig" the turnips up and eat them.

I cannot tell you what they do for forage during the winter....hay, halage???

The cows are living longer.

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"When you are having dinner with someone and they are nice to you, but rude to the waiter, then this is not a nice person.".....Dave Barry

You may want to re-read my original post.

I did NOT paint the whole industry with a "broad stroke."

And, no, these were not the WORST. Except fpr the one comment that aI said that, " couple....."
These comments were the MOST COMMON/FREQUENT.

When I was growing up, my grandfather farmed, as did many of my relatives. I never heard ANYTHING from my grandfather or relatives like I heard at the hearings. I was very surprised.

I think that you will notice that my original post ASKS if this is typical of commercial dairy farmers. I ASKED!......there was no brush in my hand,

BTW, what does it say about me.....for asking? I would appreciate it if you would enlighten me.

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"When you are having dinner with someone and they are nice to you, but rude to the waiter, then this is not a nice person.".....Dave Barry

aactually i think it more of its 'approved' so as far as we're concerned it is safe

here oakhearst dairy got sued over the same non-sense thatthe "no growth hormones" labeling was damaging business and they had to pay. nt there is a wee line that states to the effect the hormones were deemed safe for use

We are not totally grass based, we feed grain all year round with rotational pasture from may till mid october. We stopped growing corn and put everything into balage. We have never been as profitable as we are now. We have a 17,000lb RHA and I figured out last year we would need about 21,000 RHA just to break even on the cost of growing corn. There is a guy up the road feeds little to no grain and is organic, when you get paid $30/cwt it doesn't take 3x the cows to make any money.

even in the organic world we are viewed as a little different because we are considered grain free.

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Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

[QUOTE=billooo2;5162207]I've grown & grazed some purple top turnips for the last9 or 10 years, let my beef cow herd graze them in late fall. There was one winter that came early, I didn't get fenced before winter freeze up, the cows did start grazing them in late February when we had an unusual thaw.

I'd not want to drink the milk that came from those turnips - they taste like a strong raddishand the flavor does pass through - but they are very useful for grazing dry cows or in a beef situation.

As corn prices have risen over the last 5 years, I feed more and more forage, less grains to my small beef herd. But of course production & output go down as well, esp over winter.

I think a cow is good for so many gallons of milk more or less. You might be correct that a grazing cow lives longer - but will produce less milk. That is of course less efficient - we need more cows eating more grass, or we produce less milk with a grazing only system. This means milk will cost more, or be harder on the environment, or be in restricted supply.

There are always trade-offs, and some people have blinders on to those tradeoffs.

I'm glad we live in a world where people have choices, and you can raise good qulity milk of the type one wants to raise, and one wishes to buy.

The govt should enforce rules to keep things honest - there should of course be no labels that advertize 'BST-free milk' because that is a lie. There should be rules that claims you make about your product are true - can't just this grass milk is better, and that big dairy milk is just plain garbage.... Unless you can _prove_ that and I don't mean testimonials, I mean prove it.

Currently we have a good system, which allows choices & options.

Don't know why people want to goof up what we have.

--->Paul

Well said, I`m with ya on this, > Thanks Marc

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Phil, You have been missinformed, grass fed can be very profitable. Cows grazed on pasture and rotated, milk very well, and are much healthier. > Marc

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Talk about misinformed, this guy has no idea why children seem to be coming of age sooner. It has nothing to do with over-feeding our kids, it may have something to do with some kids , but not all. Could be hormones in milk, could be growth hormones in beef cattle, could be GM grain, could be chemicals in all our crops we grow, could be herbicides we use in everything, and maybe it could be some of all the above. We live in a society today that uses more chemicals than we have ever used before in our lifetime, some say its a labor saver, or fuel saver, or time saver, but when it all boils down to it when it comes to our lives can we be a saver when it comes from chemicals. I know I am doing my part in not using so many chemicals, lets hope other start doing the same before it`s to late. > Marc

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http://springvalleyfarm.4mg.com

That is the real key. We can debate the merits of whatever hormones, we can say grass is better or worse than grain, we can say milk is bad or good for you, raw vs pasteurized. We can and probably should argue all those things. You can tell me to shut up and I can tell you to pound sand.

What should not happen is that the gov't take sides to promote or protect one segment of any industry. Unless there is a very clear and present danger, gov't should stay out of the way and let the markets decide.

There is a difference between efficient and profitable.

Or it could be as simple as too much reliance on the soybean. You seem to have no idea either.

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Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

Anyone care to guesstimate approximately how many people actually know, or care, where their milk actually comes from? Most folks get it at the dairy case of the local grocer. Not many of them know, or want to know, the 'processes' that take place to get the grass to milk to store...

I'm sure someone, somewhere, operates a dairy on strictly grass. Somewhere. Probably in a very very warm climate, where grass grows year round. I'm saying grass... not hay... want to remain 'true'.

The r-BST issue is identical to the organic issue... it's all based on 'trust'. Trusting someone else, that has a financial stake in their bottom line... and not in someone's else's, is always a risky proposition. r-BST occurs naturally and is in all milk... only someone's 'word' that it isn't, isn't enough, if someone's really wanting r-BST free milk.

The ONLY way to get truly guaranteed [added} r-BST free milk, is to squeeze your own.

The dairy business has always been one of hard work, long hours, and low prices... anyone that can squeeze a little profit out of a 'niche' milk, I take my hat off to them.

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