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Raw Milk vs. Peanuts
A few years ago we were trying to get a bill passed here in Oho to allow the sale of raw milk. I was preparing to testify before the House Ag Committe. I was happened to go through a Dairy Queen drive thru......and I ordered ......"A medium chocolate milkshake, please."
When I drove up to the window to pick up my chocolate milkshake.......DQ had a large sign on the window......"WARNING!!! All of our products may have come in contact with peanuts and/or other nuts." Just a week or so before there had been a story about a lovely young lady who had kissed her boy friend. Unfortunately he had just eaten a peanut butter sandwich.......and she was allergic to peanuts......and she died. It suddenly struck me that peanuts KILL people every year!!!!! From what I have been able to ascertain no one has EVER been harmed by drinking uncontaminated milk from a healthy animal. But we BAN raw milk........while we have peanuts and peanut products EVERYWHERE!!!!! Is anyone ready to explain this scizophrenic attitude towards raw milk.....while they allow a product (peanuts) that literally kills people!!!??? |
Most folks that are allergic to peanuts and other things KNOW they'll die if they partake... Wrassle a grizzly bear, you die... kinda thing.
Eat something that's supposed to be good, and it's bad, and folks get all litigious. I'm all for doing away with most laws concerning food safety... before you eat or drink something, you should 'taste' first, and if 'spoilt' give it to the chickens. Get sick and die, well, that's all part of life, when you don't grow your own. As long as we rid the world of lawsuits when something bad happens, and it'll be a deal. It's because of lawsuits, that DQ and just about every entity on the planet that produces food DOES label their products as having 'this or that' in it, that some person, with silly allergies that will kill them (slap their parents for being neat freaks, and not exposing them to every known nasty known), if it were possibly dangerous. Don't ban anything, get rid of litigation... You drinks your milk, you take your chances...:rolleyes: |
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BTW, you are probably a lot better off drinkikng contaminated raw milk than you are drinking contaminated pasteurized milk.......if you want some interesting reading, go to the CDC web site and do a search for problems with pasteurized milk. I am so tired of people pretending that pasteurizing milk makes it safe.....while drinking raw milk is a death defying act. BTW, from what I can tell.....humans started drinking raw milk about 8,000 years BC. From what I gather, here in Ohio, it was in the 1990's that raw milk sales were banned here in Ohio. I think that makes about 10,000 years......and suddenly it is dangerous?????.......is the problem actually raw milk?????....or is it the factory farms?????.......just asking.....:shrug: |
And don't forget cigarettes. They are labeled to be hazardous and are proven to kill not only the people that smoke them, but they are also hazardous to others via second hand smoke- The gov't allows people to CHOOSE to smoke so where is the choice regarding the consumption of raw milk? The gov't isn't making any money off of its' sale -period.
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And alcohol.....which costs this country more in $ and lives a year than you can imagine. But we don't talk about the dangers of alcohol even on this forum.
Alcohol and tobacco come with money behind them. Unlike raw milk, they can harm those NOT partaking - yet they still aren't banned. I think there's a difference in an allergy and illness caused by anything contaminated. There somebody out there allergice to about everything you can name. Wheat, eggs, strawberries, milk....there'd be nothing left to eat if it were all outlawed. |
They didn't get very far with prohibition, did they? Instead the gangsters made millions selling bootleg booze. It seems like if people want something bad enough, they get it.
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I support raw milk, but I do not believe that analogy supported your proposition very reliably. |
You want an analogy, I think it is just as important to be able to drink raw milk as it is to have the right to bare arms. The day comes they ban the right to drink raw milk you better have your fire arms ready to start taking back some of those rights. > Marc
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Surely you were jokiing to imply that pasteurized milk is a major factor in increased longevity!!!????;) BTW.......are you sure that you want to go down this path????.......homgenization is being shown to release an enzyne which causes scarring in coronary arteires......which is the precursor to atherosclerosis.........and then there is the issue of A1 vs A2 milk......and which is the predominant type in the US??? Are you sure that you want this discussion to go in this direction.???? So far, I have only argued for the freedom of the consumer to choose what food they want, and the freedom to buy from whoever they choose. So far, I have not said anything negative about pasteurization, and the "modern dairy industry. Are you sure that you want to walk down this path???? Bill.........just asking......:shrug: |
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I love raw milk. I was raised on it and would love to have raised my kids on it. However, it didn't work out for us to do so. While I believe raw milk is a great source for nutrients, I don't believe it is the only source. I too believe that many things have contributed to increased longevity of man.
We start running into trouble when we hire the govt to so our work for us. When we decided that we needed a govt agency to oversee our food supply - rather than look into it ourselves, a whole can of worms was opened. The days are long gone when I can inspect a wheat field to see that what will eventually be my flour, is raised in a manner that I agree with. The same for many other things we eat. Growing our own, or buying locally from farmers that we trust is our only recourse. that isn't always possible. our Govt and our food supply remind me of the story of the camel. There was a sand storm coming so the man pitched his tent and perpared himself. His camel stood at the door with sorrowful eyes. "Please just let me put my nose inside...." The man agreed. And a bit later, "Oh the sand is stinging my ears and neck. Can't I please put them inside too?" Soon enough, the man was outside the tent. Give the govt an inch and they will take a mile. And we have done so. What do you think will happen to raw milk when the national health care starts taking effect? |
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My argument is strictly that the individual should have the basic freedom to choose for themselves. BTW, do you have any documentation that the leading cause of death was "milk borne diseases?" I have to admit that this was the first time that I have heard that raw milk was a leading cause of death before pasteurization. And, I suppose you are acutely aware that Louis Pasteur (the inventor of pasteurization) said that milk should NEVER be pasteurized!!!....because, in his opinion, pasteurization destroyed too many beneficial components in the milk. :shrug: |
My Husband probably heard you speak at those meetings. He was going to them with our Doctor... who is a huge supporter of raw milk and the health benefits it contains. Again it goes back to knowing your farmer and how he/she grows your food.
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The worst part is what is in SOME pasteurized milk and is still in it after it is cooked. May not be deadly, but it sure is gross! Pasteurization was definitely needed in cities when it was enacted. It is necessary with the way some big ag handles milk now. It is not necessary if the farm tests & handles milk correctly. Also, what is "raw pasteurized milk"??? Maybe you meant non-homogenized milk. I normally drink a local organic grass fed conventionally pasteurized whole milk. I would not touch the stuff that is ultra pasteurized. I do want to get a hold of the companies non-homogenized milk though. I did enjoy the raw milk I bought last week, but the rest of my family is squeamish and still have to drink skim milk.
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Banning peanuts, cause one in a million might die (and those poor mis-raised souls 'know' they're allergic) isn't wise. Banning raw milk sales is different. There aren't that many companies selling raw milk, for a myriad of reasons... can imagine safety (lawsuits?) is a number one concern... For the record (as if ya'll haven't heard me say this before).... being a Libertarian, I'm all for legalizing everything, including raw milk. Did I mention that I drink it exclusively? It should be a strictly buyer beware world... buy from some guy on the street corner, and you might be getting some good stuff or then again, you might be getting some good 'stuff', with melanin and other fillers. If you truly want to guarantee your own supply, you grow it yourself. I've never had much truck with safety natzis (Tarzan spelling!). I smell and sniff my food before eating. Can't smell bacteria, but if I see contamination and it still smells and tastes good, it gets tossed. Eliminate all food safety laws. Eliminate prosecution of food producers, even if they do sneak in something that should have been burned. Eliminate lawsuits on producers that did send tainted whatever down the pipeline. You can't have it both ways... you either have regulation or no regulation... we can't pick and choose which regs we want and don't want. Grow your own, and tell the safety natzis where to stuff it. That's what I did. Here in my own little kingdom. |
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When you yourself are raising Bessy in the back pasture, sure she's a well cared-for healthy cow. And sure she'll produce healthy milk. But what about the 100 cow dairy herder that managed to bribe some official to get an organic label to slap on his bottles? Do you really believe that isn't going to happen? Do you remember the videos last year of the helpless sick cows being forklifted to the gates of the slaughter house? That's what government regulation is for, to keep the stuff that you can't see and can't control from hurting you! |
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There are dishonest people on both sides of the food industry. The last cow I bought from a small dairy farm - one that sends milk to a processor for us all to drink - had piles and piles of manure in his milk parlor. Clearly it hadn't been cleaned in months. He illegally gave me a 5 gallon bucket of milk for some calves I had to transition them to milk replacer since the cow I was buying was dry. The milk had floating manure and straw in it. I couldn't even bring myself to feed it to my chickens. Even after that milk was pasturized, I doubt if you would want to drink it. But he's regulated by the govt - they inspect his barn to insure it's clean facilities.....hum? I think I'd rather do my own inspecting, thank you. And in light of that - I just turned down the opportunity for a milk share (the only way to get raw milk in Mi short of raising your own) because they refused to let me see their facilities or give me a copy of their latest milk test. You can't be too careful...but let's not think the govt is the end all answer to all our problems. And if you had a down cow in the way - how would YOU move her? Wasn't that a govt inspected facility in that video? |
well i would reckon that the raw milk people havent got the lobbyest (sp) to throw the money to the gov like the tobacco and alcohol, and pharmacuticals companies folks do..remember.... money talks bull @*$# walks....
it seems to me that so many of the presciption meds have worse side effects than the ailment that they are trying to cure.....and ya know what tobacco does to ya along with distruction that alcohol does to people.....go figure... samm |
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Um...peanuts only kill people that are severely allergic to them. Same as other allergy causing products can kill people that have severe allergic reactions to them. Do you really want to go there, banning things that SOME people are allergic to and have died from ingesting them? Quote:
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At least here in Ohio, the ODA's priority is to promote and protect "Big Ag!!" |
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The average dairy cow in a large herd today last for 2.3 - 2.8 lactations....as opposed to cows in "grass-based dairies" that are living productive lives into their teens. How healthy can a cow be that is only going to live 4-5 years???? But it passes your wonderful government inspections!!!!! |
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You said peanuts kill people, they only kill people that have severe allergic reactions to them. They don't kill people that are not allergic. You said you never heard of anyone dying from milk from a healthy animal, and I said that people have died from allergies to milk. |
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Yes years ago people drank raw milk. But how many either died or were sicken from it? Don't know because NO records were kept. And besides life expectancy was a lot shorter then it is today many may not have lived long enough to develop said diseases either. Contaminated PA Cheese Made from Raw Milk : Food Poison Journal ... Jul 7, 2010 ... April 20, 2011. Dallas area media today reported on Mary Chiles's salmonella illness (infected by consuming contaminated raw milk). ... http://www.foodpoisonjournal.com/......made-from-raw- milk/ - Cached ► [DOC] Position Statement on the Consumption of Raw Milk File Format: Microsoft Word - Quick View Many raw foods may be contaminated with harmful bacteria. ..... Available at: http://www.realmilk.com/what.html Accessed on January 20, 2009. ... foodscience.cornell.edu/.../RAW-MILK-MQIP-Position-Statement-01-09.doc - Similar Farmer in contaminated raw milk case takes the stand | Minnesota ... Sep 8, 2010 ... The dairy farmer accused of selling E. coli-contaminated raw milk took the ... August 20, 2010. Dairy inspector: Raw milk seller's dairy ... minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/.../hartmann-raw-milk-case/ - Cached New Bacteria Discovered In Raw Milk Nov 17, 2008 ... 20, 2008) — Raw milk is illegal in many countries as it can be contaminated with potentially harmful microbes. Contamination can also spoil ... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1117082051.htm - Cached - Similar WSDA warns about contaminated raw milk from Shaw Island WSDA warns about contaminated raw milk from Shaw Island. posted 04/20/2008. Consumers who have purchased raw milk from Our Lady of the Rock Dairy on Shaw ... www.sanjuanislander.com/county/health/milk.shtml - Cached Hoosick Falls dairy's raw milk could be contaminated | NBC-WKTV ... Jun 5, 2009 ... A routine sample taken last month was discovered to be contaminated with Listeria bacteria. The dairy is prohibited from selling raw milk ... www.wktv.com/healthy/47060262.html - Cached http://www.reuters.com/.../japan-usa...7DH02R20110323 - Cached Men's Health: Raw Milk May 20, 2011 ... Q: Can raw milk spread disease? A: Yes. “The idea that unpasteurized milk can be contaminated with bacteria is not a random hypothesis,” ... blogs.menshealth.com/health-headlines/raw-milk/2011/05/20 - Cached [PDF] A novel strategy for screening-out raw milk contaminated with ... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View by A Lermo - 2010 - Cited by 1 - Related articles of raw milk contaminated with M. bovis, using a procedure ... Two primers 20- nucleotides long were obtained from TIB-MOLBIOL. (Berlin, Germany) and designed ... www.im.microbios.org/1302/IM1302_0091.pdf - Similar [PDF] Position Statement on the Consumption of Raw Milk File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View 20 th century. Raw milk consumption was associated with many serious ... contaminated. Therefore, milk intended for human consumption must be obtained from ... |
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Dairy cows that only live 4-5 years are not dying on the farms. They are dying at slaughterhouses. It is milk production, not ill health, that gets most of the milk cows culled early. A few years ago, I'd see lots of old worn out dairy cows going through a local sale. It was easy to see these old cows had been culled because they had problems, mis-shaped bag, lame, etc. Made me sad to see these old girls, after years of production, finally worn out and going on a long ride to the slaughterhouse in a distant city. But now, at that same sale, because of lower milk prices, good healthy cows are going to slaughter. They would have many years of milk production ahead of them, except their production level isn't quite high enough. In order to be profitable, only the best producers are kept. Many of these "cull" cows would have been profitable 20 years ago. Seems sad for the cows, but with these early releases from production, overall health is higher and higher quality dairy cows are being ground up, that in years past. |
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If you would like to enlarge your borders, you can visit the CDC web site, and do a search for contaminated pasteurized milk. You may be surprised to find that it may not be as safe as you assumed. A friend of mine did some perusing on the CDC site.......and he claimed that, from the studies he looked at ........people got sick from drinking contaminated raw milk, but one was more likely to die from drinking contaminated pasteurized milk. There is a relatively easy explanation for that phemomenon. Raw milk contains components that are anti-bacterial in nature. Those are destroyed by pasteurization. If you innnoculate both a gallon of raw milk and a gallon of pasteurized milk with the same bacteria, the bacteria will still be there in the raw milk, and it may grow some, but in the pasteurized milk, that same bacteira will explode in growth. At a recent dairy goat conference I brought this point up to a person from the Dairy Division of the Ohio Department of Agriculture. He agreed. He said that I was "absolutely correct." |
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However, how is that taken to mean that I said raw milk was the culprit? First, you point out that raw milk has been drank for thousands of years, but I point out that people back then were not that healthy. Some were, some weren't. But the longevity was not as good as it is now. Therefore I was stating that your analogy did not actually apply since people back then did not even have SS buckets to milk into, good cleaning methods, etc etc. |
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Thank you for strenghtening my argument.......in spite of the lack of sanitation......they still survived ....even though they drank raw milk!!! |
Smoking kills alot of smokers and some non smokers. But costs all of us tax payers an enormous amount of money every year.
Raw milk is banned in alot of states because "it may" contain something harmful. It may not also. I think we should have a right to choose. I have the right to harm my health in alot of other ways don't I? |
The following products are potentially life-threatening to those who are allergic to them: Eggs, fish, milk, peanuts, shellfish, soy, tree nuts, and wheat. If any of those are in a product, it must be listed on the label. If peanuts were to be outlawed, the same argument could apply to all of the others including milk.
Martin |
simple
follow the money |
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It makes no sense when the law already allow dangreous porducts to be sold on the market!! |
The same excuses that you use for peanuts apply equally to milk, raw or pasteurized. Infant deaths due to milk allergy is rare but each victim is just as dead as if the cause were peanuts or any other allergen.
Martin |
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Heritagefarm makes a very very good statement above. It is all the forms of technology from the sanitation plants, to vaccination, to antibiotics, to asceptic technique, to pasturization, that have all contributed to today's robust population. People that have never seen a child die of whooping cough are the ones that protest against vaccination. People that never saw a loved elder die of tuberculosis are the ones that protest against pasturization. Sure, you can check 10,000 cows and not one will be infected with tuberculosis, but it's that 10, 001th cow that infects you. That's one of the reasons your great great great grandfather was dead at the age of forty! |
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