How to grow the farm w/o debt

Thanks for the input. I am going to try and find some land to rent hopefully in a few years we will be to the point of being able to buy something bigger. Most of those small parcels around here don't have water on them, and hauling in enough for cattle could be a deal breaker.

thestartupman... I do live near a city of about 400K. The biggest benifet to the customer base I have is loyalty, and they are good folks, which is why I try so hard do what I can for them. I have had some of the worst customers possible, and don't do business with them any more, it has been nice to weed them out. It has taken a few years, and at one point I was ready to quit, due to bad customers, but the ones we have kept have gone so far as to send us thank you letters for supplying them and doing what we do.

7thswan... Why cut down on the ones that don't bring the highest profit. I run sheep, goats, and poultry with the cattle. The all eat different forage, so they don't take away from one another, so why loose on the income. They only problem right now is figuring out the pigs, I am having breeding problems and need to get it going right, since pork is one of my big sellers, and is important to my base. I look at livestock kinda as crop, why limit to monocroping, I believe my pastures are better due to the diverstity, and if something happens, like it has this year with the pigs, I still have the others to help get me through it. With the proper set up it doesn't take much more to run them all, I could have much cheaper fencing up front with just cattle, but I would loose more than 50% of the income, and that 50% puts me that much closer to being where I want to be.

I've never been to Kansas, so don't know the layout of the land or how things are there, but do you actually have to rent land?

Are you able to find any old farms that the land is starting to get overgrown - perhaps where a farmer used to farm but the land is now starting to get weeds and small brush on it?

Make a deal with the owner that you will get the land into shape - clear it and keep it cleared with your animals. For the land that no longer will be an eyesore to the owner - or cost them to brush hog it - your animals will keep it cleared out. (Throw in for measure some meat and eggs too.)

Of course, you will want some kind of contract - both for your protection (the landowner can't tell you to get everything off the land within a week) and the landowner's protection (they are not responsible for the care of the animals or any injury you may get while on their land).

You supply the fencing (and take it with you when the deal is done). And the landowner may even have a water supply you can use so you don't have to haul.

Just a thought that might help you.

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Michael W. Smith in North-West Pennsylvania

"Everything happens for a reason."

How about paper/pencil the concept of building a small block bldg. to do your own butchering in, or hire/consignment with a butcher. Yes I know the USDA has some requirements for how that bldg. must be designed (parking space, private entrance, private dressing room for the inspector) but that is easy.
Making the leap to retail sales can mean more $ per land space that you have.
Then if you can make retail sales for meat, add other items like vegetables and products from consignment made by other producers/crafters.
Yes you may have to borrow to build but the building is on your property and it can have flexibility of sales items.
jim

I certainly would not put animals anywhere that required "drive time" to take care of them.

Good management requires that you look at them daily, check them for injury and illness, check the fences, check that they have water.

Also, thefts of food are increasing and livestock with nobody around to watch them are getting to be targets of theft. If not in your area already, coming to your home town soon.

You'd be much better off to pay rent for land right at where you are and not pay gasoline to drive back and forth to a distant pasture.

So the 75 acres we rent for $30 an acre is a good deal?

If your product is in that much of a demand, if the right land came up near by I wouldn't worry about takeing on debt if you are sure it won't over extend you.

The farm is a business. It takes capital to make a business. The business must support the payment of the debt interest and repayment of the debt principle. Do the numbers. Make a business plan. Do it for profit. If the numbers work then it makes sense to get debt. You're making an investment. The key is not to jump in water deeper than you can swim. If you can't swim, stick to wading and avoid fast water.

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SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids

Is it possible to do more intensive rotational grazing? Have you read any of Joel Salatins books? His "You Can Farm" one has alot of good ideas for your problem.

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You are confined only by the walls you build yourself.