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  #21  
Old 04/07/11, 05:43 PM
 
Join Date: May 2002
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My Husband and I are looking at doing something like Jean Pain with the house we are building. I was wondering though, what type of tubing to use and what to use for the central digestion container. Something that won't corrode from the moisture or be damaged by the heat.
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  #22  
Old 04/07/11, 06:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by City Bound View Post
About the methane harvesting that some of you mentioned:

Doesnt methane explode if it touches oxygen? How do you safely harvest and store it?
have any of you tried this yet?
Methane can explode in the presence of oxygen, but not without a source of ignition, such as a spark. I've done small scale methane experiments, but not anything like what Jean Pain did.
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  #23  
Old 04/07/11, 07:35 PM
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oh, ok, so you need a spark? Is methane combustable on its own, or does it need to mix with oxygen to be able to burn?

I want to experiement with biogas, but I am afraid of blowing my self up if the tank leaks or when I go to ignite it.
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  #24  
Old 04/07/11, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forerunner View Post
The "guy in France" referred to several times was likely Jean Paine.

He coiled black plastic pipe around a tank, buried deep in a pile containing 200 tons,+, of material. He pumped water through the tubing to heat the house and provide hot water.
The tank contained similar material to what the pile consisted of and was used as the methane generator.... the tank being "cooled" by the water circulating through the pipes to maintain around 95-105 degrees, F.

A typical pile will heat to 150-155 degrees, F. More than that is a little too hot and some nutrient can be lost. A pile containing 200 tons, give or take, according to Jean Paine, would heat effectively for 18 months.

What I have done is:

Building a durable compost bin.

I built the thing in October(ish) 2005.
I filled all three bays with pretty good stuff and it was cookin'.
Our ambient kitchen temperature has always been 60-65 during the winter.
That December, 2005, was a cold one, and the kitchen maintained 70-75 and we burned a little over half our regular amount of firewood that winter.
Now that's my cabin/house.
The difference anywhere else would depend on a few things, but, if one were to design a house with compost heat in mind.....i.e. concrete walls and some plumbing/planning, I think it could easily be a stand alone.
One would just figure on cleaning stalls and garden residuals each September/October and spreading the piles the following May/June.
On the other hand, if that pile cooled down to earth temps, it would make excellent insulation against the summer heat.
As for the pile's heating tendencies, the concrete would replace the outer insulating layer, and therefore absorb more heat than what would be realized toward the outer portion of the pile exposed to the elements.
Berm a house on the northern exposure and compost pile heat the east and west.
Give the south full, greenhouse style sun and I say you've got it licked.
Yelp thats him,I couldn't remember but I have trouble remembering names 5 minutes most times

big rockpile
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  #25  
Old 04/07/11, 09:34 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by City Bound View Post
oh, ok, so you need a spark? Is methane combustable on its own, or does it need to mix with oxygen to be able to burn?

I want to experiement with biogas, but I am afraid of blowing my self up if the tank leaks or when I go to ignite it.
Nothing is combustible without oxygen.
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  #26  
Old 04/08/11, 12:15 AM
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Location: At the foot of Mt Rainier, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by City Bound View Post
beth I would just leave it in place in the summer but shut off a valve in the hose between the house and the pile. But, then again, maybe it would be best to clean it out in early spring and dump on the garden because that french guy Jeane says that the pile stays hot for 18 months, so if you make you pile in early fall when you do the fall clean up and then leave it for 18 months it will take you through two winter, but I am not sure if the pile will still be kicking out decent heat at the end of the second winter.

maybe it might be good to leave it for the 18 months.
What do you think?
Good question. I am not sure if I'd want to put unfinished compost on the garden, but at the same time it might not last 2 winters. I guess it might just be a matter of experimenting and having plenty of firewood as a backup
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  #27  
Old 04/08/11, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Betho View Post
Good question. I am not sure if I'd want to put unfinished compost on the garden, but at the same time it might not last 2 winters. I guess it might just be a matter of experimenting and having plenty of firewood as a backup
If it could carry the home through two winters, that would be very economical. I am interested in trying it.
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  #28  
Old 04/08/11, 09:20 AM
 
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Bacteria can reach a temp of 157 degrees so I would assume any pipe capable of withstanding that temp should be able to handle the temp.
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