When is it OK?

The law doesn't give you the right to shoot those dogs, BUT it is doubtful that a judge would rule against you.

Up here, when farmers talk about wolves, it is always "SSS", Shoot, shovel and shut up. The DNR will spend a lot of time tracking down any wolf killers. They require you to let them kill livestock, then if you can prove it was a wolf, you get paid for your loss.

But we aren't talking about wolves. If you shoot, shovel and shut up, I guess that's the end of it. If you shoot and only wound the dog, I guess it is someone else's job to bury the dog, but you should keep your mouth shut either way.

I'd be tempted, as it looks you are, to locate the owners and report this incident. That might take care of the problem. However, if the dogs return and you shoot one, the owner will be on your doorstep in no time. I'd keep still about it and if it happens again, shoot them and when the owners start looking for their dogs, " Sorry, never saw your dogs around here." is a good answer.

We've used a shotgun to keep dogs away. Most of the time the dogs are hit and run off (shotgun pellets aren't fatal most of the time). If someone complains tell them that if you were able to hit them, the dogs were too close.

in my neck of the woods if a k-9 shows agression towards a person you are allowed to shoot it. Wolves included. They will be back be ready with a gun.

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I'm so done here.

shoot em and bury them under your compost pile..period..end of question

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Brenda Groth
http://restfultrailsfoodforestgarden.blogspot.com/

I feel you would have had every right to take care of those attacking dogs. And then just dispose of the bodies. If their owners cared about them, they wouldn't have been running loose on someone elses property attacking their animals.

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Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I completely agree. The less said the better.

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Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

First, I ALWAYS ask around about the owners. To keep it hush so no one will know it's you is cowardly in my opinion. Why are we assuming that the dog's owner is a nasty, spiteful person who takes no care of their animals and just turns them loose? In my most recent situation, the owner did just keep the dog loose as she couldn't catch him (feral that she fed) but she paid the vet bill without being asked, was understanding when we had to shoot him (we buried him for her) and is now a good friend and who we ask to babysit our kids.
Where I am, if my dogs dash off it is to go jump in a nearby pond where they play with the kids (pond-owner likes them) But if, by (very long, highly unlikely) chance either of them were not there but went after someone's livestock, the owner would have my most abject apologies and a check.
How about you? If your dog was to get loose somehow (yes, your dog can get loose under the right circumstances - it happens) and go after someone else's livestock even though they are well-behaved around yours I bet you'd be understanding, apologetic and want to bury your dog yourself.
In your situation:

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A ship in the harbor may be safe, but that's not what ships are built for

Don't know about Michigan laws, but in Georgia, Georgia Code section 16-12-4 spells out the penalties for cruelty to animals, in section f, it states:

(f)(1) Nothing in this Code section shall be construed as prohibiting a person from:

(A) Defending his or her person or property, or the person or property of another, from injury or damage being caused by an animal; or

(B) Injuring or killing an animal reasonably believed to constitute a threat for injury or damage to any property, livestock, or poultry.

(2) The method used to injure or kill such animal shall be designed to be as humane as is possible under the circumstances. A person who humanely injures or kills an animal under the circumstances indicated in this subsection shall incur no civil or criminal liability for such injury or death.

I don't let my dog run loose, but if I did and she killed someone's stock I would pay them for the damage.. And I would hope they wouldn't just shoot her for going across their land if she got loose.

Personally I'll go find who a dog belongs to or at least give it a try before I shoot someone's dogs.. And I won't shoot a dog around my property unless it's causing damage. People's dogs get loose sometimes, and not all dogs kill livestock.

It probably varies from state to state.

In the state of Kansas, it is legal to shoot a varmint that is threatening your chickens: so a neighbor was told when she asked. Mind, she was talking about possums instead of Bald Eagles: it might be different if the varmint is protected.

The neighbor shot a possum that was in her chicken run, and she was told it is legal to do so.

Keep in mind that free roaming dogs are often run over by cars.

And if you run over them enough, it's really hard to tell that they've been shot first.

Quite frankly...any dog can get loose. A dog not used to livestock that manages to get loose may act a complete fool without realizing the danger. "Hey look...strange looking dogs. This must be the dog park!"

I would certainly hope that these grand pronouncements that any dog not their own should be shot on sight are exaggerated. ANY dog can get loose once.

Find the humans that go with those dogs if possible. Did they have tags or collars on? Did they look emaciated, ill used or abused? Did they look "rough" like street dogs get to looking? You never mentioned those conditions in your post.

You know...all you SSS folks...your LGDs look might big and dangerous to the novice too. If one of them gets lost or leaves the property, lets hope you're all perfectly okay with anyone shooting your well trained dog on sight too.

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Christy
Growing Human
http://growinghuman.blogspot.com

When wearing narrow lenses of hate and ignorance, is it any wonder one finds it difficult to see clearly? - Me

My dogs are loose on my property all the time when I'm outside & can watch them, they have never been off our 40 acres in 7 years except when I walk them down the road on a leash.

This is a very rural area, not many houses on my road that's 2 miles long & the next roads over on each side are 1/4 mile & 1/2 mile over.

No these dogs had no tags or colllars, I wouldn't say they looked emaciated but I also wasn't that close to them & it was getting dark at 8 p.m. at night when I went running to my barn.

I would not shot someone's dog just to shoot it because it came on my property. We had a dog from the next road over 1 time for a week with signs all over trying to find the owner, finally they seen 1 of the big poster board signs & called us. That dog walked without a leash with us & ours through our back feilds & woods & always came back with us. Has been loose & came here several times since that.

Also had a dog from the corner for a couple days that we fed but kept outside until we figured out whose dog it was.
The neighbor on the other sides of our woods lets us know when there dogs have run off & we help them look as well as another older man from the next road over.
These dogs were bound & determined to get my rabbits, I have grow out pens & 23 young one's, if I hadn't been home I don't know if I'd have had any rabbits, ducks or what condition my goats would be in.

There hasn't been a sole come around here since the incident looking for there dogs.

I have taken my dog with me when I visit the neighbors. They know what he looks like and who to contact if he shows up in their yard. He did go visit a neighbor a mile away when he was younger but has stayed close to home since. I would be upset if a neighbor shot him if he showed up.

If strange dogs menaced me or my critters I would shoot them without a qualm. If a neighbors dog showed up and even killed a chicken, I would chase it away and call the owner. a chicken is not worth a big fight with a neighbor.

When my neighbor's pup killed a chicken, I whacked him with it and chased him home. Dog won't touch them now.

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A ship in the harbor may be safe, but that's not what ships are built for

The dog Mom shot in the process of attacking her rabbits was a repeat offender. She had already chased it off many times and shot it with bird shot a couple times. When Mom killed it and left it out in the field the owner came up to her house in a really nasty mood. She cut him down several notches and told him if she ever caught a glimpse of the other dog that was with it it would be dead on sight and he could come collect it's body from the ditch. Found out later the owner not only worked at a local feed store but lived over a mile away. I told Mom she should have sued the owner for damages. The rabbit that was torn up and had to be put down was worth a pretty penny, not to mention the 3 does that aborted because of the attack.

A couple of the dogs we've shot were habitual roamers. (both while attacking livestock and after being chased off several times) The owners just didn't care enough to make sure they were secure either at night or before they left for work in the morning. People who let their dogs roam do not care about the dogs. An occasional escape is a different story. But either way most states allow livestock owners to destroy on sight any dog that is harassing, menacing or attacking livestock. The reason some of us would not say a word to the owner is because of all the irresponsible and belligerent owners we have already come in contact with. People who think their untrained mixed breed free ranging mutt is worth more than a good heifer or productive heritage breed chicken.

I have had one of the not so close neighbor's two dogs show up on my front porch, and when I went to the door they were growling and acting in an aggressive manner towards me. I was armed, but did not SSS - instead I called the neighbors and let them know if it happened again and their dogs would not let me out my door by growling and acting threatening towards me, then there would be a different outcome.. They haven't been back here since..

I helped my front neighbors install one of the radio controlled wire perimeter fences using dog collars, which keeps their three dogs on their property. It does work, as far as keeping their animals on their place. They were going to talk to the other neighbors with the aggressive dogs, as to the advantages of using that system.. It is a lot cheaper to use that, instead of traditional fencing when trying to contain dogs to a several acre parcel of property.

Yet if I caught a stray animal trying to get at livestock or any domesticated animals, then according to our County Sheriff, it is rancher's rule here.. Any aggressive or destructive animal is fair game, and it only takes the Sheriff's Deputies 40 minutes to respond up here in an emergency..

Some folks think that their pets can do no wrong, but I carry the scars from being severely bitten by a 'sweet' German Shepard as a kid, that had come onto my parents property. As I remember my dad shot the dog several times, and the owner was responseable for my medical bills..

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Smarter than the average bear, sitting here on my hilltop 80 acres in the fog above the ocean...

"Life is tough, but it is tougher when you are stupid." - John Wayne

I will tell you the same thing I tell people that call me asking the same question.

You have the absolute right to protect yourself and your property, including livestock. If you use deadly force to maintain that right, you need to be able to articulate to a judge why deadly force was necessary, should it ever end up in court.

That said, I have shot several dogs that have come onto my property. I bury them. If a deputy ever came around asking about it, I would be honest and tell them I shot it and why. Around here, it's pretty much understood that if you do not keep your canines confined, they run about an 85% chance of being shot on sight if they wander onto someone else's property.

That's what we did with pups. They don't realize their strength or boundaries. The whack with a chicken trick usually works pretty good.

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Christy
Growing Human
http://growinghuman.blogspot.com

When wearing narrow lenses of hate and ignorance, is it any wonder one finds it difficult to see clearly? - Me

Wow....let's hope that everyone sleeps with the end of the leash in their hands for fear of their beloved dog following a scent onto your property.

Do you just sight a dog, pull out a gun and shoot it? I mean...suppose a beagle with nose to the ground wanders on. Everyone knows they get shorts in their ears when they smell something disgusting or interesting and just follow their nose. Do you just go ahead and shoot them...remove the heart shaped tags of beloved fido and gleefully bury yet another evil canine?

I'd hate to have a hairy kid get loose too.

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Christy
Growing Human
http://growinghuman.blogspot.com

When wearing narrow lenses of hate and ignorance, is it any wonder one finds it difficult to see clearly? - Me