Bought property with a credit lien...need advice

Txrider · #41 03/06/11, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorian

I really appreciate all the replies, and my apologies for not announcing my location, an oversight from having the flu this week I'm sure.

As I told Mr. Rude above, I'm in PA.

I'm following up on much of the info. presented to me here...will be doing research.
I was trying to avoid contacting a lawyer too early as my husband has been out of work for seven months and hiring a lawyer (which I WILL do if I need to) is expensive.

First I would go to the county and get records of any existing liens on the property. It may even be listed online in a searchable database, but likely better to just go down and have them search and give you copies.

I would then look up the state laws on liens and expiration of them on your states web site and see what applies.

I would also look up tax sale foreclosure laws and find out what liens stay with the land if any.

All the info you need should be available on the the states web site, just hard to dig through and make sense of as the laws were written by lawyers, and for lawyers.

Astrid · #42 03/06/11, 06:02 PM

Only 1 caution... when you do contact whatever collection company does hold the debt be prepared for this debt to be put onto your credit report as an unpaid collection. If and when you talk to them, be very careful about giving things like social security numbers, address, heck even your name until you have a legal professional working with you.

tom j · #43 03/06/11, 08:53 PM

In MN you can not sell landlocked land .

Nevada · #44 03/07/11, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom j

In MN you can not sell landlocked land .

Arizona has a similar law. I know someone who had his land become landlocked by an inadvertent property description error. He went to the county offices and pointed it out to the recorder, to which she replied, "You need a lawyer."

While such laws might exist, if what I saw was any indicator you can't expect much protection from those laws.

fantasymaker · #45 03/07/11, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorian

and I am sorry I reacted too strongly to your post.

sending you a message.

LOL Dont worry you didnt react "Too strongly" Like I said its a flaw of mine I work on.If people dont point it out Id never get any better about it, so thanks, your helping.
Too strongly would have ment I had to dodge bullets or flying cow patties......

And what was rude in my Eyes is that I got worked up and forgot to include the following,

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorian

We'd like to get the lien removed and negotiate with them for a much reduced amount. Any real-estate experts out there have any good advice?

1. Tell me the best way to go about the negotiation process.

2. What paperwork do I need to get from them to make sure the lien is removed fully?

3. Can anyone explain "quit claim" deeds to me in more detail?

Believe it or not, I've been searching on line a lot but I just keep coming up with junk sites that are advertising...no real advice on this matter.

Call'em up to start negotiations someone there will eventually get yo to the right office. Remember after all these years they wold like to clear this off their books.

Where I'm At if you buy a property for taxes and properly get it in your name it is lien free. (actually here you don't by the property you buy the taxes then the court eventually orders the county clerk to issue a tax deed.)

A quit claim (deed) might work fine to clear the lien interest from the property but in a lot of places they simply issue a "Release of Lien" and that works too.
Your area is know for a long and intricate legal system so you probably should talk with a local lawyer about your situation .On the upside Any new and inexperienced one should be able to advise and handle this for you so it should be relatively cheep.

am1too · #46 03/07/11, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorian

We bought the pasture next to us (1 1/2) acres for 1,700 in back taxes.
We did this so no one else would buy it and slap up something junky.

BUT

It has a credit company lien of $25,000 from the former owner. They are highly UN-likely to foreclose (we've had it for 8 years) because it has no access. The only access is through our property. The lawyer we talked to at the time said unimproved/no access land has little value to them.

We'd like to get the lien removed and negotiate with them for a much reduced amount. Any real-estate experts out there have any good advice?

1. Tell me the best way to go about the negotiation process.

2. What paperwork do I need to get from them to make sure the lien is removed fully?

3. Can anyone explain "quit claim" deeds to me in more detail?

Believe it or not, I've been searching on line a lot but I just keep coming up with junk sites that are advertising...no real advice on this matter.

If you bought it for back taxes they have no lean on it. They lost their rights through the tax sale. It would have been in their best interest to have paid the taxes.

am1too · #47 03/07/11, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorian

New development...Seems the credit company that held the loan no longer exists? How in the world am I going to find the company that holds the lien now??? I've been doing a search on line but so far I can't figure it out. Oh brother!

If it isn't filed at the court house there is no legal basis or validity to a lein.

am1too · #48 03/07/11, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texican

Taking you didn't take out title insurance then? The couple hundred bucks is sometimes worth it's weight in gold. If you'd got title insurance, this would (should have) have popped up, and to get clear title, the lien would have to be paid off first.

Maybe the credit company has merged or changed names.

You have a clouded title. As long as you never plan on selling it, why worry? If they do ever come after the lien, you pay it.

My land includes 27 or so acres, with a cloud. Surveyors in the fifties, when making a gas well unit, 'discovered' the extra land... my grandpa claimed it, started paying taxes, and no one disputed his claims. I've talked with a prominent land lawyer (who just so happens owns the land on the other side of the fence) and he says I currently have a possessory claim, with 60 years of paying taxes. The only theoretical person that might have a claim would be the heirs of the original patentee, from the 1850's. My ancestors have owned the property for over a hundred years, with clear titles.

Tax lien sale clears the title.

am1too · #49 03/07/11, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl

Did you mention in another thread that you plan to sell your adjacent house and build a new one on this smaller parcel?

I'd surely get the title settled before making any investments into the property ... you don't want to build a new house for the bank!

A tax lien sale the redeemer has to pay the taxes plus interest and improvements within usually 2 yrs from the tax sale. After which they forfiet any rights to the said property.

oneokie · #50 03/08/11, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by am1too

A tax lien sale the redeemer has to pay the taxes plus interest and improvements within usually 2 yrs from the tax sale. After which they forfiet any rights to the said property.

What is the source of information that you are basing this statement upon?
Have a link?

lorian · #51 03/08/11, 02:52 PM

It was not a tax lien sale, it was a sale by the county for back taxes and the property had a lien on it from mortgage the former owner took out...the land as collateral.

I have a copy of the lien, but I still can't figure out where the company "went"? Who their successors are? I wish I had better research skills. I want to have this figured out BEFORE I call the lawyer. They must have been swallowed up by someone. I'm tracking them online but all the old offices and #'s they had are closed/gone.

shawnlee · #52 03/08/11, 04:32 PM

A lawyer will know exactly where to find that info and if it`s not there will know exactly the legal paperwork that has to be filed to clear you.....or if you are clear already and just need some minimal paperwork filed.

Might be good that the info is hard to find for your sake.

I used to hate lawyers..untill I used one here a while back for a property I purchased......they know the system and what needs to be done. Lets me sleep well at night....

Nevada · #53 03/08/11, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneokie

What is the source of information that you are basing this statement upon?
Have a link?

It's controlled by state law, so it will vary.

Txrider · #54 03/08/11, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorian

It was not a tax lien sale, it was a sale by the county for back taxes and the property had a lien on it from mortgage the former owner took out...the land as collateral.

I have a copy of the lien, but I still can't figure out where the company "went"? Who their successors are? I wish I had better research skills. I want to have this figured out BEFORE I call the lawyer. They must have been swallowed up by someone. I'm tracking them online but all the old offices and #'s they had are closed/gone.

That's just it. In many states if the property is sold for back taxes all liens are extinguished and made invalid.

Looks like your state is a bit more complicated from nosing around...

Quote:

In Pennsylvania, mortgage liens are not extinguished on properties sold at the Upset Price Sale. Properties not sold at the Upset Price Sale are auctioned again, free and clear of liens (including the mortgage), at the Judicial Sale.

Did you buy at an upset sale? Or a Judicial sale?

If it was an upset sale it would seem the lien is likely attached and valid.

mamato3 · #55 03/09/11, 09:20 AM

I know im not helping the poster. But i want to thank you for this info. My hubby has been begging me to let him go buy X amount of acres during these taxes sales. He swears he only has to pay the back taxs and the liens are wiped clean of the property.

fantasymaker · #56 03/09/11, 10:34 AM

He might be right like we have been saying it depends on EXACTLY where you buy and How.

Txrider · #57 03/09/11, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamato3

I know im not helping the poster. But i want to thank you for this info. My hubby has been begging me to let him go buy X amount of acres during these taxes sales. He swears he only has to pay the back taxs and the liens are wiped clean of the property.

That doesn't appear to be the case in Mo, unless it is a third offering tax sale, which you then have to do a title search, notify any lien holders, and give them 90 days to redeem the property.

http://www.professorprofits.com/stat...?name=Missouri

It would be wise to talk to a lawyer and know all the rules before putting your money down on a tax sale.

oregon woodsmok · #58 03/09/11, 02:46 PM

I don't think tax liens wipe out debt. In some states, you aren't even purchasing the land, you are purchasing the tax lien. You'll have to foreclose, yourself.

In areas where debts are wiped out by tax sales, the mortgage holder will usually pay the tax lien and take the property.

If i knowingly bought a property with a lien on it, I would expect to have to pay that lien before I could get the property recorded into my name. It's part of the purchase price.

lorian · #59 03/09/11, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txrider

That's just it. In many states if the property is sold for back taxes all liens are extinguished and made invalid.

Looks like your state is a bit more complicated from nosing around...

Did you buy at an upset sale? Or a Judicial sale?

If it was an upset sale it would seem the lien is likely attached and valid.

Upset sale...... Lien was attached, we knew that when we bought it.

And much to the shock of a lot of people on this board, it was worth it ($25,000 - the lot is worth at least 45,000).

We are planning on A) Getting the lien wiped out through various legal procedures OR b) Negotiating the lien down very significantly and paying it off. Investigating both options now.

Txrider · #60 03/09/11, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorian

Upset sale...... Lien was attached, we knew that when we bought it.

And much to the shock of a lot of people on this board, it was worth it ($25,000 - the lot is worth at least 45,000).

We are planning on A) Getting the lien wiped out through various legal procedures OR b) Negotiating the lien down very significantly and paying it off. Investigating both options now.

There might just be a reasonable notice law.. That is you cannot determine who owns the lien..

Usually there is a limit in the effort you have to make or how long they have to do something about it.