0.8 of an acre .... what are are the possibilities

Sonshine · #21 03/03/11, 01:52 PM

As far as goats go, you can get a smaller breed, like the Nigerian Dwarfs. They don't take up a lot of space and are good milkers. Not sure how good the meat is, but I've heard it's good too. A dozen chickens, if they're good layers will keep you in eggs, plus you may have a few extra to sell. We're only a family of 3, but we sold enough eggs to buy feed for the goats and the chickens. With the goats, you probably won't have enough land to pasture them so you would have to buy hay to feed them. Although you may be able to divide a section into two small pasture areas and try to supplement their feed that way. I'm in the process of trying to figure out what to plant for my pasture. I don't know where you're located, but goats will also do well eating kudzu and bamboo. So if you're in the south you will have at least some food that is free to feed to them. With gardening, you can always put in whatever size of garden you have room for, them supplement it with container gardening.

farmerDale · #22 03/03/11, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonshine

I think it may depend on where you live too. In the south we can get produce from our garden just about year round.

A very good point. I guess I was also thinking of the need to raise all your feed, which is maybe not what the book was about, and is I suppose, not entirely necessary. Things would be crammed. I don't think a cow having to live in 50 square feet is humane, for example. The hay you would need would take up a lot of space itself...

Sonshine · #23 03/03/11, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerDale

A very good point. I guess I was also thinking of the need to raise all your feed, which is maybe not what the book was about, and is I suppose, not entirely necessary. Things would be crammed. I don't think a cow having to live in 50 square feet is humane, for example. The hay you would need would take up a lot of space itself...

No, I don't think a cow would be a wise choice, but goats don't require as much space and still provide meat and milk. I don't think it would be possible to grow all their own feed, even if you had enough land. I've been doing some research on that for my own herd, but you can plant certain things to supplement and then sell some of what you produce to make up the difference. We very seldom have to pay for feed because the eggs we sell earn us enough to buy the feed. We haven't bought hay since we got the goats because my DH barters with some people. He runs their websites or does computer repairs in exchange for hay. So our animals haven't cost us anything to feed, other than time. Also, some of what you would grow for human consumption can benefit the animals. The vines that your peas or beans grow on. We toss those to the chickens and goats. Things in the garden that are not quite bad yet, but on the verge we toss to the chickens. They love seeing me in the garden. LOL

mbcagle · #24 03/03/11, 03:19 PM

Thanks for all of the interesting responses! The tennis court is enclosed in privacy fabric mounted on 20 foot tall 10"x10" post. It is 60' x 120' and constitues about 1/2 or a little less of the back yard. In the other half, I have 24 blueberries a nice shade garden and a killer fort for the kids. In the garden, I have 5 beds that are 4'x56' and one that is 4'x40'. The rest of the beds are for fruit trees and flowers. I may have to reclaim that. I have always grown my tomatoes and beans and sometime peas for the family. I have a chicken coop for about 12 chickens. I have an empty space where I want to house something but I think it is a little small. It is adjacent to the chicken coop. I could open up the coop run and make it the entire length and fill it with other animals. I let the chickens out to forage when I am outside. A hawk got several of them a year ago so I don't like them out without me. The open space is 6' x 34.5'. I know it is not much. I do have other areas that I can utilize. I have a great side yard that is about 20' x 20' in the shade. Hmmm.

How tall are mini goats? Are they friendly? Can you take them in a large dog kennel? How much milk per goat do they produce.

Rabbits sounds doable. Are they difficult to process. My DH and I were both raised in the city. We have processed several roosters. WE found it a little difficult. How does processing a rabbit compare? Is it economical to feed rabbits and eat them for food. The chicken eggs are expensive compared to buying eggs. LOL!

We do live in the south (North Alabama).

Sonshine · #25 03/03/11, 03:26 PM

Here's some info on the Nigerian Dwarf Goats:

http://www.ndga.org/

A healthy Nigerian Dwarf doe can produce a surprising amount of sweet milk for her small size - up to two quarts per day or more. In addition, Nigerian Dwarf milk is higher in butterfat (6-10%) and higher in protein than milk from most dairy goat breeds. Many Nigerian Dwarf owners raise their goats for milk production but others raise them for the pleasure and companionship these little caprines bring to their lives.

http://www.goats4h.com/Dwarf.html

I transported 2 pregnant does, a 4 month old buck and a 1 month old doe in the back of my van. They do fit in a dog kennel. On a side not, we have actually made butter from our ND milk. Not sure how many other goat breeds have enough butterfat content to do that with.

Forgot to add, they are very friendly, at least mine are. They love to be petted and hugged. Mine have very sweet dispositions.

FarmboyBill · #26 03/03/11, 04:05 PM

Soneshine. U say a ND will milk UP TO 2qts a day. I think the poster said they had 8 to 9 in the CURRENT family. They would need between 4 to 6 goats to provide the milk needed to provide the milk they needed ALL year long, as , goats tend to drop around the same time, which leaves a couple of months with little or no milk. As I described how my folks kept a jersey cow in a lot, they had 2 cows over a 20yr period, I think, with no problems, and, looking back, I dont see any reason why they couldnt have kept 2 cows in the same lot thereby assuring milk all the year round, if they were bred at the right time. If this family did that, They would be assured of haveing plenty of milk, but also likely alot of milk to sell periodically.

Also, u say a doz chickens should do them. Currently, I have 20, and I get around between 7 to 12 eggs a day now that its warmed up. I think they would need 2 doz in the hopes of getting up to 12 eggs a day. I am eating 8 a day myself now.

They could also raise their own turkeys for thanksgiving and christmas

FarmboyBill · #27 03/03/11, 04:36 PM

MCB, U state that the price of eggs, and meat, is cheaper at the store than raiseing it, which I imagine might be true. BUT, Do you go into WM or wherever and buy ONLY the eggs and meat you need. I doubt it. If one were to be able to add up the money they spent for things they hadnt thought they needed before they went into the store, those eggs and meat might not be so cheap.

Tuesm I thought the free county clinic was open so I went up to get my bp pills renewed. I also stopped at a store and bought 2 litres of pop. Ive already drank one and am 1/2 way through the other. They clinic wasnt open lasat tues. Its open THIS tues, so the gas, and the pop was just wasted money. Thats kinda what im trying to say with the above.

wogglebug · #28 03/03/11, 04:46 PM

Don't forget you're in a rural area. You could scythe and gather enough grass off the back-road roadsides to feed some livestock. Even use a sickle if it's just rabbits and chickens, but use a scythe early Saturday morning, bring back raw cutting for a couple of goats for the weekend, then gather the rest of the hay onto a trailer late Sunday afternoon, after it's had two days to dry. If you have the animals to use this, I'd suggest commercial pressed hay for Winter, because it uses so much less space, but loose hay a week at a a time the rest of the year (or as long as it's green and long) would be possible.

You might, over time, be able to do a bit of "guerilla gardening". Plant some of your food plants - preferably perennials - on public land. Asparagus, Jerusalem artichokes, sweet potatoes, kale, scattered ameranth and grain sorghum, whatever. Also, maybe enrich your "back-road hay areas" by seeding with clover, alfalfa, other legumes, and improved grasses.

Also, you can tether animals out on the roadside. There are risks to this, and you'd need to keep them nearby in case they got tangled in the tether, or attacked by dogs. You need to give them drinking water as well. However, it's been done successfully for centuries. Maybe you could do it for just two or three hours a day. It's doing what grazing animals should do - go and gather their own food, rather than have you labour to serve them.

If you are willing to put in the work, potatoes give an enormous return. A tenth of an acre is a square 22 yards on a side. You can get a minimum of ten bushels of potatoes (600 pounds) out of that space, maybe anything up to 70 bushels with the right soil and climate. The deep digging will put the soil in good condition for a garden the next year. It's a lot of VERY hard work to do it right though.

If you have a pig then it will work over the potato field, digging up what you missed. It's not necessarily something I'd recommend on a small area, but it can be done. However, pigs produce a large amount of raw manure, and it's a lot worse than a straight herbivore. In short, they STINK! However, a pig will give you more long-lasting meat in the form of salted bacon and ham than just about any other animal. We need a lot less meat in our diet than we generally eat. Potatoes and bacon or eggs or a quail or a chicken leg and fruit and vegetables is enough for a day for an adult who is not actively body-building. Milk and cheese and yoghurt help too. Don't forget cheese made from whey as well. Or feed the whey, the buttermilk, skim milk to the pig. One more comment - given a chance and no choice, some pigs (notably large black, but possibly others) will graze. Under the same conditions of active supervision with a firearm ready to hand, and the right harness, a pig can be tethered out to graze as well.

Again, rural area. You can gather fallen branches for firewood. Check whether it's permissible to gather anything more substantial in the way of fallen trees - sometimes you can pay a token fee for a firewood permit. It doesn't have to be used indoors if you aren't set up for wood cooking or wood heat.

If you can bring yourself to do it, you can gather road-kill as food for your chickens and those stinking pigs. Have a boiler made from a half of a 55 gallon drum, maybe with a top made from the end of the other half with the sides split, with a metal handle welded or screwed on. Boil the road-kill outside to kill any germs. Fish out the substantial bits and feed to the animals. Use a hammer-mill and mix with grain if you have it - if not, they'll still enjoy it, but they won't get the calcium they would from bone meal. Mix some grain in the boiler water yucky soup to soften, cook, and soak it up, then feed them that as well.

Sonshine · #29 03/03/11, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

Soneshine. U say a ND will milk UP TO 2qts a day. I think the poster said they had 8 to 9 in the CURRENT family. They would need between 4 to 6 goats to provide the milk needed to provide the milk they needed ALL year long, as , goats tend to drop around the same time, which leaves a couple of months with little or no milk. As I described how my folks kept a jersey cow in a lot, they had 2 cows over a 20yr period, I think, with no problems, and, looking back, I dont see any reason why they couldnt have kept 2 cows in the same lot thereby assuring milk all the year round, if they were bred at the right time. If this family did that, They would be assured of haveing plenty of milk, but also likely alot of milk to sell periodically.

Also, u say a doz chickens should do them. Currently, I have 20, and I get around between 7 to 12 eggs a day now that its warmed up. I think they would need 2 doz in the hopes of getting up to 12 eggs a day. I am eating 8 a day myself now.

They could also raise their own turkeys for thanksgiving and christmas

I said that we have 12 chickens. Depending on the breed will depend on how many eggs you get. We have Buff Orpingtons and Rhode Island Reds. In warmer weather we get 8 to 10 eggs per day. Through the winter we get 4 to 6 per day. As for the goats, 4 Nigerian Dwarfs would not take up that much space. They are no bigger than a German Shepherd dog.

ronbre · #30 03/03/11, 06:18 PM

i just remembered there was a really good article in Mother Earth last fall on a family that produced nearly all their own food on much less than 1/4 acre..can't remember the name of the article but you could go to mother earth news online and find it

FarmboyBill · #31 03/03/11, 07:19 PM

Toggle, What breed of hogs have u had experience with. I have kept hogs on and off for 40yrs. Ive NEVER noticed a smell unless I was around 10ft from them or their pen. My current pen is around 100ft from my house South. Ive NEVER been ab le to smell them. My small garden is 18 X 36, and its around 30ft fgrom the house, and ive never noticed a smell from them unless I was next to the hogs, not the garden. If you dont like hogs for any PERCEIVED reason, thats your right. But you should know that I have farmed since 1968, and have had hogs for at least 1/2 that time, and ive never noticed a objectionable smell. If you have farmed for a longer period than me, well, as I said, its your right not to like them.

stamphappy · #32 03/03/11, 08:36 PM

What an interesting thread. And some great ideas for working in tight conditions. My friend has a friend (yes, it's true). They raise rabbits for food. They are doing the three tier method similar to what a prior posted spoke of with chickens.

I think there's a total of 9 cages with 2 rabbits per cage??? He rotates the rabbits and every week there are 6 ready to process. Does that make sense? Maybe there's only 1 per cage and only 3 ready per week. I can't remember the details.

I don't raise any animals yet but it sounded intriguing for a small space.

Wags · #33 03/03/11, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

Soneshine. U say a ND will milk UP TO 2qts a day. I think the poster said they had 8 to 9 in the CURRENT family. They would need between 4 to 6 goats to provide the milk needed to provide the milk they needed ALL year long, as , goats tend to drop around the same time, which leaves a couple of months with little or no milk.

Nigerians come into heat year round although summer heats tend to be pretty mild. So it is quite possible to stagger breedings and keep a year round milk supply.

Breed standard is for does to stand no more than 22.5" and bucks no more than 23.5". They are friendly and easily handled. They also tend to get along quite well with chickens and although there are a lot of eagles and hawks around us we have never lost a chicken to one since they share pasture space with my Niggies.

My hubby thinks the raw whole milk is too rich so he waters his down 1:1 and still says its richer than 2%.

So you could easily stretch a half gallon a day into 1 gallon a day without a significant loss of taste.

FarmboyBill · #34 03/03/11, 10:30 PM

hmm lol yuck. Iffn I wanted 2% milk, [I] would drink Holstein milk LOL, Ive drank Jersey, Brown Swiss, and Gurnsey milk, and NONNA them seemed too rich to me. Just right. I think your hubbys just too sour LOL. Cant take too much a anything sweet lol

FarmboyBill · #35 03/03/11, 10:36 PM

woggs, what breed of hog did u deal with that u noticed such a terrible smell? Ive farmed since 68, and had hogs around 1/2 of those years. I never noticed a smell outa a 1/2 doz or less unless I was right up to the pen or them. Ive got a small 18 X 36 garden fenced hog tight around 30ft from the house. I put pigs in it for a month to tear up the ground, before planting. Ive never noticed a smell outa them at the house. Just opnly when I was at the pen would I notice a smell, and that was becausse they used the same area to trap in, and it would tend to smell there, but the pigs themselves never smelled as bad as my buck goat sometimes.

Wags · #36 03/03/11, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

hmm lol yuck. Iffn I wanted 2% milk, [I] would drink Holstein milk LOL, Ive drank Jersey, Brown Swiss, and Gurnsey milk, and NONNA them seemed too rich to me. Just right. I think your hubbys just too sour LOL. Cant take too much a anything sweet lol

My doe in milk right now is giving 7.5% butterfat - so cutting it by half would still make it richer than the typical whole (cows) milk from the store.

ChristieAcres · #37 03/03/11, 11:18 PM

I only eat whole foods and only drink whole milk. Why dilute it? YUM

Now, I am planning on getting a goat or two, mini's myself, for the milk. So, I am very interested in hearing about goats...

mbcagle · #38 03/03/11, 11:28 PM

Wow! So much info. I think the small dairy goats would be a good addition to our "micro farm!" Now to find a breeder close by. We are in North AL. If I extended my chicken run, would it be possible to house the two goats in there with them. The total run would be 287 square feet. The coop is elevated 2.5 feet so the mini/dwarf goats could easily go under it. I could put a small shelter at the other end for them. We have a pasture behind the house across the street. Perhaps we could take them over there for a walk where they could much on some good greens. I also have a small strip behind the fence that could be cleaned out. What would be the easiest to start with? Should we start with kids so they would bond with my children? Or should I look for an older one or two? I guess I would need access to a male. Hmmmm. There is a lot to think through!

Sonshine · #39 03/04/11, 12:12 AM

With my nigerian dwarfs they are so gentle you shouldn't have any problem with the kids, except if the goat gets overly excited and jumps up on them like a dog would.

I enjoyed getting pregnant does. That way I was part of the birthing process and could start attempting to milk right away.

wogglebug · #40 03/04/11, 06:42 AM

To clarify, clean pigs don't smell. Clean pigs that have sweated and had it dry are even worse than teenage footballers that have done the same, but you won't notice it five yards downwind with a strong breeze. What does stink about pigs is the manure and urine, if it's not cleaned up frequently - it's about like human or dog droppings, but a lot more (since they are eating so much and growing so fast) and a lot more moist. Meat in their diet is good for growing them, but it makes their droppings smell worse. Also, where I live is dry. Ground is dry and hard. If the pigs have nothing better, and their manure is available and their urine moistens the ground, well, they'll "wallow" in that.

If you keep pigs in a concrete pen with enough room to pick a corner for their "dunny" (where they do their dunning), and you shovel it up then hose it down regularly, you'll be fine. But you've got to keep on top of the situation EVERY DAY, or it will STINK. Pigs on pasture with a lot of room will be fine too, particularly if you water a spot for a wallow, but the original poster doesn't have that luxury. A small pig pen on earth will end up stinking too, despite your best efforts, if only because of the urine that soaks in, and them making a wallow of it - this is the traditional stinking filthy pig pen. Not what the pigs would prefer, but they're flexible, and if they can't do better then it fits within their range of "acceptable".

On the subject of compost, I've heard it said that compost is for the poor people who can't afford poultry. Not altogether true, but it is true that all your scraps should go to the poultry and pigs (if any). Their manure is what goes into the compost, or fertilises ground in autumn that you'll have plants growing in come spring.

As for calcium, a couple of dwarf goats would be nice, a cow you could tether out all day and she'd be a lot more resistant to dogs than something smaller. Milk is near essential, but on that space you can't get enough to give all those kids the calcium they will need to grow their bones. I'd come home off the school bus, open the fridge, toss down a quart of chilled milk without drawing breath - gulp, gulp, gurgle-urgle-ulp, then take the second quart to the table. Yes, we had a milk cow. My brother was the same about bread. he'd take a glass of milk and a one and a half pound loaf of fresh bread. Five minutes later there'd be nothing left - he'd hollow it out, then attack the crust. Biblical locusts were pikers. Although we'd have eaten them too if Mum had cooked them.

Back to calcium, though. If you pressure-cook bones, you'll not only get a good broth or stock (just bought a pressure cooker again last Friday - yumm, turkey soup from saved bones), but the smaller bones (say wing tips, chicken and rabbit ribs, and bone ends) will soften. Run them through a blender, maybe let them sit in acid (vinegar or lemon juice), blender again, then use them in a sauce - sweet&sour or a gravy or like that. Even richer in calcium than is milk.