Questions on Pole Barns

Yep that's why you WANT to do the Sprayed on Insulation.
Even just 1 yep ONE inch will mach a huge difference.
It will put the condensation point inside the closed cells of the foam and thus it wont be a problem
Not to mention way warmer ,draft free and the whole building will be MUCH stronger.
There are do it yourself kits that make it cheeper and some of the Posters here can give you some hints on that.

Nope it wont it just ABSORBS the condensation leading to early rot and rust a nightmare after a few years in a humid area.

PLEASE DONT DO THIS! its even worse than the OSB idea since it TRAPS the condensation water against the steel.

Good point If you are going to do the concrete anyway why not have either concrete ledges along the walls or concrete piers to bolt the poles to ,Thus no wood within a foot of the soil?

I have a friend with a lift under a 8 foot truss line its simply set BETWEEN the trusses but it sounds like your door will be on the wrong wall for that.

HEAT Ive always liked the inground woodstove UNDER the floor heat, no wood smoke in the building and no way for gas fumes to get to the flames.

Yup my barn uses creosote treated poles, basically telephone poles.. But it is a two story barn. And there is no cement contact, the poles are wrapped with thick tar paper before the cement was poured. Looked like a very good idea to me. All poles are covered by exterior walls as well.

Also it might be a good idea to find a friend or neighbor who has experience putting up metal siding. The guy who built mine (previous owner) did not and he had all kinds of issues I had to fix when I bought the place.

I am also not a very big fan of running PVC water/drian pipes through the slab for sinks or water etc., I'd prefer to bring them up and in through a wall, even if it means building an insulated box around them. Breaking a plastic water pipe off at the slab from freezing during power outages, accidentally hitting it with something etc. just looks like a problem waiting to happen.

I agree with you on that one. I am not having a bathroom or anything but I am going to have a water collection system off the roof into a storage tank which will gravity feed a deep sink and the deep sink drain will just be a modest grey water leach field. None will go through the slab just for simplicity sake.

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Responding to comments from some other posts - I also think putting OSB under the steel is a bad idea. A lot of extra expense and work, and for what? Now on our house, we did put OSB sheathing with steel roofing because there was nothing there but rafters and runners when we tore off an old cedar shake shingle roof. We put tarpaper between the OSB and the metal in case of condensation, and there is a lot of insulation in our attic so it stays cold in winter and hot in summer. That makes another good case for the the spray on foam insulation, trapping in heat when you heat the shop, keeping it from heating up as much in the summer sun, and preventing condensation.

Regarding the fasteners, definitely screws and not nails. The screws go on the flats, not the ribs. The screws made for the steel come with a rubber washer under the head, and it needs to be squeezed down tight to have a good seal. (They are also color matched.) This is easier accomplished on the flats. It takes a lot of finesse to compress the screw's seal on the standing ribs without bending the metal. And when putting in hundreds of screws, you run out of finesse pretty quick!

We didn't pre-drill ours, the screws were sharp enough to make their own holes with a fresh cordless drill. But one project we did where the cordless drill was "wimpier" than the one we have now, DH used a nail to start the holes. Put the nail where you want the screw, hold with pliers, hit with hammer, put nail in mouth while you insert screw, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat........

Because adding on is so common, I'd suggest you go a bit higher sidewalls. Run some plastic/fiberglass panels up near the eaves, for light, then when you add a shed, start it below those panels and you'll have light inside. They make it to match the patern of the steel panels. If you have only 10 sidewalls and a 4-12 pitch, your shed is only 6 feet high, when you make it 12 feet wide. If you make your barn just 6 feet higher, you could put a second floor in part of it someday, plus leave a foot for light inside and 9 feet head space in a shed 12 feet wide.
Morton Buildings has a way to save money. Instead of treated posts, they use a blend of 2x6 treated boards and 2x6 untreated. Splice them together so the treated part is below ground and the cheaper, untreated boards make up the rease. Then at the top of these posts, the center board is 6 inches shorter than the boards on each side. The truss can sit into this notch, fully supported. Saves all that heavy 2x12 ribbon generally used to support the truss. They make each truss stronger, so they can be set 8 feet on centers. The 2x4s used on the roof are then set upright, so they can span the 8 feet. Use 16 footer, so the ends aren't at every truss. So you have cheaper posts, fewer trusses, can use 2x4s across the sides, without the heavy, expensive top board.
Foil backed 1/2 foam board prevents moisture falling on all your stuff inside.

You might price it with a couple rows of concrete blocks and a 2x4 or 2x6 stud frame.

Remember, where you drive pushes the frost deeper, so posts in the ground near entry doors must be plenty deep, otherwise they'll eventually heave.

I have seen polebarns with 8 wide shed roof without any support posts to get in the way, but that requires a truss guy that knows his job.

I dont think I could swing going higher than 12' sidewalls just due to the fixed budget but I am going to talk to the contractor about a conventional frame just to see the difference. Our frost line here isnt very deep (18") and we dont get the sustained cold you guys get up north so heaving isnt usually a problem. They sink the posts 3.5 - 4' deep and I havent seen or heard of anyone having an issue.

I think I have decided though to not attache the machine shed lean-to to the pole barn. I can build that on my own and mostly already have the materials on hand and the savings from that can be directed to the electrical and maybe some upgraded insullation. I also have about 50 windows in the barn that were left by the previous owner and I am going to use a couple for the pole barn.

The contractor will be out next week and he is going to come up with some bids with varying options.

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The very best way to do a metal roof is to sheath the roof in OSB or plywood, cover it with tarpaper or Tyvek, install PT furring strips vertically where each rafter is, then install Pt furring strips horizontally (purlins) and attach your metal to them. This creates a drainage plane between the metal and the sheathing, so excess condensation can run out the bottom. If you omit the vertical strips, the water can't run down the roof and out. The vapor barrier protects the sheathing. Metal roofs will condense moisture in most climates.

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"What one generation tolerates, the next generation embraces." -John Wesley

But these days the pt will rust away any metal, so you need muuch more $$$ fasteners and you need to put a plastic or other barrior between the pt and any metal - or it will rust out in 20 years.

Nice roof, but probably not for a fella on a budget.

I think I figured out the conensation thing. Have a shed built in 1964, it never did condense any. At all.

Put up a pole shed a year ago, it condenses.

The old building is poured concrete, full foundation 4 feet deep here in MN. The dirt floor dried out to powder dry, so there is no moisture to condense inside. I realize air carries some moisture in, but it's a pretty dry building.

The pole building allows moisture to soak into the ground under it, and the moisture will evaporate inside, creating more humidity.

That's my theory. The old building is dry inside. the new one has crytstals grow on the roof & walls in spring.

--->Paul

LOL ya know thems Fighting words ?


Ill stand by foamed steel as the "very best way"

If condensation in the new building is going to be a problem, have the concrete contractor put down a vapor barrier before placing the reinforcing steel for the slab. Also request that "waterproofing" be added to the readymix. Then after the building is finished, allow good air movement through the building for the first couple of months to let the moisture from the concrete to leave the structure. This may be necessary for up to a year, depending on your climate.

It will be cheaper to have trusses span the 24 feet part, instead of the 32 foot part. To be sure, price 9 trusses 24 feet wide, then price 7 trusses 32 feet wide.
Compare 20 4x4 pressure treated posts, 14 feet long, 20 4x4 pressure treated posts, 20 feet long. Plus the extra 500 square feet of steel. That extra height might not be so costly after all.
If you can buy 20- treated 2x4x 10, 20 treated 2x4x8, 20 standard 2x4x10, 20 2x4x8 and 10 standard 2x4x12’, it might be cheaper to build your posts. The posts would be 3.5 thick x 7.5 wide.
If you used 2x6s to build up 6x6 posts and had trusses made to be set 8 on centers, you’d need only 5 trusses and 10 posts. Posts could be built from 10 2x6x10 treated, 10 2x6x 8 treated, 10 2x6x8 standard, 2x6x10 standard and 2x6x12 standard. This way the middle 2x6 can be 6 inches short and the truss will seat right into the post, eliminating the need for 2x12 around the top. The 2x4s on the roof must be set upright to span 8 feet safely.

That is a lot more materials and labor, translates to more money. Also by building up those extra, flimsier layers between structure and steel you are giving up strength to resist extreme wind.

We screwed down runners to the trusses, then screwed the steel down to them.

salmonslayer

Something for consideration.

If you want to save labor on the building and reduce the overall cost I want to suggest the following. For the opposing long run side walls instead of using the pole barn technique substitute pallet racking. Pallet racking can be bought for cheap with all the plant and business closings. Pour the footings for the load bearing side walls at finish floor height. Then assemble the pallet racking on the footings. It may behoove you to shop around for the trusses before starting the project as you may locate some trusses that were built and not used that are cheap. You could adjust the span to meet the trusses if the price is right, especially longer trusses. Anyway, with the pallet racking erected the outer side of the racking will suffice for attaching the wall metal while the top horizontal runs will support the trusses. On the inside you will have storage area above the floor in what would be dead space and you can mount lighting conveniently above work areas. You will not be forfeiting as much floor space as you may initially imagine. If the footings are poured level and parallel your building will be very plumb and square and the siding will fit readily. Use a good vapor barrier under the concrete floor. Should you decide to use this idea I have a few more hints to share.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

I am pretty wedded to the pole barn building style but I have to admit you have my curiosity going. Can you explain what "pallet racking" is? I mean, are you talking about building with pallets or the bigger industrial pallets they ship large electrical motors on (lots of those around here)?

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www.salmonslayer-simplelife.blogspot.com

I am pretty wedded to the pole barn building style but I have to admit you have my curiosity going. Can you explain what "pallet racking" is? I mean, are you talking about building with pallets or the bigger industrial pallets they ship large electrical motors on (lots of those around here)?

Pallet racking is the metal storage shelves and uprights used in large warehouses. The components all interlock and assemble rapidly. The racking can carry tremendous weight.

__________________
Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Foam on the steel is probably the very best; I was thinking old-school, low-tech. As for using purlins directly- it is stronger, but I've been in a lot of barns that the roof sweated- a lot. We were talking about how to prevent that.

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"What one generation tolerates, the next generation embraces." -John Wesley

If we are Gonna talk CHEEP........

Instead of pole barn just build a regular 2x4 framed building and trusses on 2 foot centers then Screw the metal DIRECTLY to the frame horizontally on both the walls and the roof.
MUCH MUCH stronger.


But Id still foam it!

I am also very interested in this thread as I'm considering building a garage using a similar type of construction . Can a building of this type with a cement floor be built for $ 10 k using a contractor for the floor & framing ? Personally I would probably build everything myself except for the cement floor . Wouldn't a white roof & siding help keep the building cooler in the summer & if I wanted tubing in the cement floor for radiant heat wouldn't I need insulation under the cement ?

WVB LOL your asking the wrong guys you need to ask a contractor where your at. If you get several bids OVER your $10,000 target don't be afraid to put a add in the paper specifying what you want and asking for bids UNDER your target price.
If ya go down to a Menard's or similar that has a DIY estimating computer you can check out a lot of variations and their costs for free.