Tractor Opinions, need help with a decision

sure it could. YOu cant drive 80 mph with it,but...

If yuo want to use 3 poiint hitch equipment, yuo will have do some modification to that D17. Alice chalmers has a weird 3 point system. Half of it is on the tractor, and the other half is built into the equipment. I had a D19. I wouldnt want another chalmers, just because of the 3 point

__________________
http://lownfamilymaplesyrup.com/ max@lownfamilymaplesyrup.com
Professional Tool. 1220 Woodmere Ave,Traverse City, MI. 49686. 231-941-8003. http://professionaltool.com/

What are you buying a tractor for? What is it you need it to do?

Both of those tractors look rougher then a night in jail. A front end loader is nice when you're loading something, then it becomes a handicap if you can't remove it especially on a 2wd tractor, which is why the heavy weights on the rear wheels. Those laoders don't look like quick disconnects.You will have zip for traction with that loader on there and terrible turning radius.
Worn out diesels don't start in the cold weather. Those Fords didn't start in the cold easily when new.

__________________
"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence"
Robert Frost

I iimagine that may be the case wiht most diesels, but I have a 1959 john deere 720 2 cylinder diesel. I know it has 20,000 hours on the engine if it has and hour. That thiing starts in temps right down to zero degrees. That has to be the most dependable tractor Ive ever seen

__________________
http://lownfamilymaplesyrup.com/ max@lownfamilymaplesyrup.com
Professional Tool. 1220 Woodmere Ave,Traverse City, MI. 49686. 231-941-8003. http://professionaltool.com/

HEY! cornhusker has a john deere 720 diesel. Most dependable tracotor ever built on the planet. IM not necessarily a john deere fan, but i have a 720 diesle, and its beenin the family for 35 years.

Ask him if he'd sell it. THey are 60 horse, power steeriing, PTO, thy will handle a loader..

__________________
http://lownfamilymaplesyrup.com/ max@lownfamilymaplesyrup.com
Professional Tool. 1220 Woodmere Ave,Traverse City, MI. 49686. 231-941-8003. http://professionaltool.com/

If you grew up using a hand clutch a 720 might be ok but otherwise I would not recommend. A loader on a hand clutch tractor is fine if you have 3 hands.
I like the old Johnnys but hand clutch is dangerous if your instincts have been trained to use a foot clutch then in a situation where you need to react fast your foot pushes a brake because the clutch is in your hand JMO.

I think the semi 3ph hitch on a Chalmers is called eagle hitch.

Thanks, I think every time something is posted about tractors I learn more. I've used them for years, but not the variety you all have. Beeman see post 8. Johnny, what is wrong with the selecto-matic? Is it problematic, or just difficult driving I have heard they are bad for rowcrops but that is it? Thanks MF, I had no idea the AC 3pts were different. Does anyone have experiance with case tractors? I have only used newer case backhoes and loaders, and have seen some older tractors for sale before, but they looked rougher than the Fords(which I plan on looking at this weekend, just can't say no w/o seeing them in person as close as they are).

getting parts for the select-o-matic is near impossible.
It was a very handy tranny for loader work though, we had an 801 with it and it was a blast to use in any application.
It did have some gears that "free wheeled" (marked on the shifter)so you couldn't use them for braking when hauling loads down a hill but other than that we never had an issue with the tranny.

I would pick the 5000 if I had to pick one, just cuz the 4000 is an older model.

Older case tractors had a different 3 pt called the Eagle hitch. But they were a rock solid tractor. Had a pair of 800 deisels and a 1030 over time and they were very dependable. Heavy though, if you have any swamp land be careful....
The Allis style is called the Snap coupler....
There are plenty of kits available to convert the Allis to 3 pt, never worried about the Eagle, category I pins will fit in the arms so we just used them....

__________________
Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

We had a 720 gasser with a 45 loader. A very nice and dependable set up.
The 720 was the "boss" tractor on our farm. It did everything. Love to hear them old 2 bangers chopping.........

__________________
Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

Curtis B

You do not want to travel out of the neighborhood to see a potentially decent tractor but will spend the time and fuel to go look a junk. Beeman gave you some good advice.

A selectomatic tranny may be good for some tasks if it did not break. They do break and when the do the tractor repair bill will exceed the value of the tractor.

For a person that has had exposure to tractors, I am afraid if you aren't cautious you are going to expand your education in a manner that you will come to regret.

__________________
Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Agman, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the advice, which is why I have been asking so many questions. I am even considering going with two tractors, one with a loader and PS that I could add a 3pt to later (I have used FEL's w/o PS, and would like to avoid it), and one for 3pt use that doesn't have a FEL. I have also considered tractors that need repaired. It would be easy if I had lots of cash, or wanted something with low or high HP. Lack of availabilty for parts is a key point, I could rebuild a tranny, but if I can't get parts it wouldn't matter. I have been burned buying things I haven't seen in person, which is why I am hesitant with that, and yes I will drive 45 min to look at something that looks bad in a picture, but could just need a paintjob. I have to weigh all options, but will not do/buy something I am uncomfortable with.

Curtis,
A competent mechanic familiar with todays equipment would be challenged to rebuild a selectomatic. You do not know the depth underneath of the thin ice that you are thinking you can step on.

__________________
Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Ford invented the select-o-matic which is a nine speed set-up with 3 ranges. You need to clutch to shift from one range to another but within a range you can shift between any of the three speeds without clutching. Over the years Ford made improvements on it but it is expensive to repair. I believe Ford eventually sold the idea to John Deere and their engineers improved it and they called it Power Shift.

I have also learned a few things from the the other posters. Good thread here !

..............Just understand there are MAJOR difference(s) between small farm tractors and small Commercial tractors , that being , a)small commercial tractors will have a separate hydraulic pump that furnishes pressure too the frontend loader, exclusively ; small farm tractors <usually> have a single hydraulic pump within the tractor body that has too supply all hydraulic pressure too a frontend loader , power steering , and any attachments like raising and lowering a box blade , etc . The net result is that the f\end loader on a farm tractor will operate very slowly !
...............Plus , small industrial tractors , ford 240a , 34oa , 445 and 555 all have a MUCH heavier frame and consequently are much more forgiving from operator malfunctions , such as overloading a corner of the f\end loader ! , fordy

Miscellaneous advice.

The various manufactures had their lemons. JMO but John Deere 2010 and International/Farmall 504 are two models to avoid.

I recently learned that the small imported compact line of Allis Chalmers have an engine where the casting for the engine and the casting for the injector is the SAME casting .... who would have ever thought engineers could be so stupid ?

If you buy an International with T/A (torque amplifier) take a Farmall man along to help you check it out.

ALWAYS take a knowledgeable friend along. My farming neighbor is a good mechanic and he usually knows how to check them out. For example one time I bought a late '50's JD 420 with power assisted steering. There was a huge amount of play in the steering. So while I was turning the wheel the neighbor noticed two housings in the vertical steering post were not bolted together securely causing a lot of play. He then whispered in my ear that it would be a simple easy fix. Sooooooooooo I made the seller an offer since the steering might be expensive to repair and he sold me the tractor LOL.
Another time I was looking at a JD 620 and the pto seemed fine when I engaged it from the seat but the neighbor noticed the pto stub was bent and wobbling ..... Like I said in an earlier post .... do not assume anything.

Get your money ready and be patient .... and remember that when a bargain shows up the first one there will have it.

Too long ago since I've seen a D17/D19. They apparently werent popular in this area. But I own an old WD. I assume its the same weird rocker shaft system it had. Couldnt be more simple to convert it to 3-pt, just little welding involved and bit of scrap iron and some generic hitch pieces from TSC. Dont need some fancy high dollar kit, though kits are still available I think.

I'd be happy to have a D17 or D19 in good condition especially if it were a diesel. They were a good tractor. If I remember they did have high/low range. "D" Allises were from early sixties.

The WD only had a 4spd, no high/low and always drove me a bit crazy with its weird gearing. AC didnt see need for a creeper/granny gear, but they bragged on it having a road gear. If you ever drove one of these, unless you live where land is pool table flat and roads have zero traffic other than you, you would NEVER want to ever use their pride and joy "road gear" unless you were feeling suicidal. Brakes and steering werent good enough to make it anywhere close to being safe. Not only was road gear not usable, first gear then was too fast for lot utility tractor type things though it was ok for plowing the back 40, I mean you can slip the clutch and get by, but it gets to be pain in rear.

I just figure it was cheaper for AC to make a transmission with a road gear than to make one with a creeper gear. Oddly you would have thought some tractor manufacturer would have thought to buy 4spd truck transmissions from one of the auto manufacturers. Would of had to be cheaper than producing their own and it would have given a creeper gear.

__________________
"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" -Dorothy

"Well, then ignore what I have to say and go with what works for you." -Eliot Coleman

http://allischalmers.com might be a good place to check their classifieds if you are thinking about buying an AC.

I have read that the AC Snap Coupler system was ahead of its time, and really never caught on.

I also understand that these can easily be converted to a 3 point system, but that is just what I've been told.

If you have time to wait, you might check out some of the tractor shows in the spring or summer, and put out the word that you are looking to buy. Always lots of tractors for sale at the bigger shows.

LOL
I have 2 WDs and use them for every chore around the farm and they work just fine. Plowing, discing, sickle mowing, raking baling, planting
Road gear is 9 -10 miles an hour. If your tractor is so out of whack that that scares you you need to look at how you maintain it.
I have driven mine over 3 hours each way at full throttle in road gear to make hay without even a hint of impending doom.
My steering is tight and my brakes are set properly......

Nobody had a "creeper" gear when the WDs were made.....

__________________
Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

Thing is we arent limited to tractors without low range anymore. Tractors started coming with dual range trannies in the mid 50s. My point is OLD tractors do have significant limitations for modern user. Few need a tractor this size to bale hay or plow the back 40 anymore. But people do need them to run things like brush hog with pto going full governed speed.

If you like doing everything in the equivalent of high range, more power to you. Like I said, you can get by slipping the clutch and make do. The only other way to slow WD was to run engine slower. BUT this also significantly slows the PTO and you have lot less power at lower rpm. It was a compromise. I think they should have offered optional rear axle gearing for those wanting to use these tractors for utility purposes. They even made the final drive gearing to slow WD down, it was used on their cotton pickers. They just didnt offer it in the tractors.

There were much better geared tractors back then, but they came on steel wheels. You couldnt go fast with those without them being extremely dangerous, so manufacturers were forced to keep them slow.

As to road gear, you come down here to the Ozarks with 30+ degree inclines and tell me how useful and easy to handle your tractor is. Those brakes were not up to going fast on hills, they just werent. Tractors went to disc brakes just like cars and trucks did though most tractors had internal discs rather than external ones. And there was no power steering, steering was awkward. Steering is one thing that can be upgraded on the wide front version if you are handy. Use an orbital steering valve like modern tractors and add a steering cylinder up front.

__________________
"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" -Dorothy

"Well, then ignore what I have to say and go with what works for you." -Eliot Coleman

I've got my eye an Allis 160. Does this model also have the nonstandard 3PT? Also any general opinions on this model?

Although you can find old loaders that fit on older farm tractors that have an indpendent pump running off the crank. Massey Ferguson comes to mind; both Massey and aftermarket manufacturers made these loaders/pump set ups.

This is what I stuck on my MF65 (although I would recommend starting with a 165 or newer due to a more square bell housing). I also had a three spool valve installed with the extra service ran to the back.