Trespassers on new property
 

Ok guys, I need some recommendations here. We just purchased a foreclosed property and we've had trespassers on the property. My husband went up there last night and found tire tracks in the snow, coming from the field, then onto the property.

We plan on fencing the property, but that's not feasible right now because the ground is frozen solid.

I suspect that it is the previous owner. The reasons that I suspect this is
1) that when he lost the house to the bank, he vacated the premises prior to the auction. Then after the sheriff's auction, he broke back into the house (bank had changed the locks) and started living in it again. It took 2 trips to get him out. And 2) the person is driving thru the farm field, which belongs to his dad, to get to the property. His dad's house is in plain view of the area that is being driven.

I'm thinking that we need to make a trip up there each day at varying times, just so that they can see activity around the place. Also, calling the sheriff and asking if a deputy could drive past occasionally. Any other ideas? I was thinking about some kind of camera system, but I don't know what type or what could withstand really cold temps.

Sounds like more aggravation that it's worth as it probably will never end if father's land adjoins it.

You're on the right track, keep a watchful eye and tell the sheriff. If it were me I'd go talk to the dad, introduce myself and just mention what I'm seeing and ask if he could keep an eye out. Don't accuse the son, just make him think you think it's just kids playing around or something like that, be casual.

Good luck with this. With his family so close by it could spell trouble depending on what kind of person his dad is. I'm new here so I'm not going to share my thoughts as a final last ditch effort, but it sounds like you may have a long road ahead of you. For now I'd try to get someone living there at least part time. Try and talk to any other neighbors and see if they could give you any more info or watch your place for you. If possible talk to the guy. He may be more excepting of losing his home if the new owners talk to him. If he gets caught again ask local law enforcement to press trespassing charges on him. Above all stay safe.

It would be a shame if, during some of the work you're doing on the house, you happened to drop a 2 X 4 with several 20d nails imbedded near where he drives across the field

You can get an inexpensive game camera and put out. I would make sure it was pretty well hidden so it wouldn't walk away. I have seen them at Bass Pro/Cabelas, etc for $75 and up.

Thanks Kevingr, I was thinking about that too. Part of what we're going to be fencing is what the father was using as farm land, there's still corn stubble in it from last year's crop. That is totally understandable with his son living there. I can see him letting his dad farm part of it. So, I'd like to meet the father and get off to a friendly start before spring gets here and we start fencing.

I started out feeling sort of sorry for the son. Until I found out that not only had he not paid his house payments, but he'd never paid his property taxes or paid the sewer bill the entire time that he lived there. For 7 years!

LOL, that thought had crossed my mind too! But I think I want to try a more tactful approach first.

The board with nails can bring legal trouble. Funny how the law works, but let someone illegally on your property get hurt and see what happens. The game camera is a good idea, and they make lockbocks for them so that they don't grow legs. There's only one company that I'm aware of that makes a good one though and they're about $40-$50. The rest are made of then metal and easily defeated. Just enough to keep an honest man honest. Could always set up some cameras and a basic computer to keep an eye on things. Some of the programs will allow you to access them through a website and it sounds like they may be needed in this situation.

Could you share with me the name of the company that makes the good one?

That's what I'd suggest also.

Sure. I didn't want to come on here posting company names since I'm new. Didn't want to get accused of just trying to promote products. Its custom1enterprises.com This is for the box only, you still have to add the camera of course and a good quality lock. There's another company that makes decent boxes as well, but not quite the same quality as this one. I think they're a little cheaper and can look up that name if you'd like. My biggest complaint about the cheaper boxes is the metal is too thin. They could be pried apart with little effort. There's a video on youtube with a guy that had his camera stolen and while looking into it found that the cover of the "security" box could simply be snatched off the front. As far as cameras go there's alot out there from $50 to several hundred. The website chasingame.com gives good reviews. One thing I would make sure to have if you're trying to catch a 2 legged predator is an infared flash. A standard flash would be a dead giveway that the camera was there. A lot of cameras get stolen not because the thief wanted it, but because they were caught trespassing and didn't want their picture there as evidence.

Short term cheap rental to a biker.

That would be nice, but the house isn't finished. It was started new in 2003 and the previous owner never finished it, he just lived in the basement the way it was. Right now there's no kitchen, no heat, no flooring beyond subfloors. Well there's hydronic heat installed in the basement floor, but we don't think that everything is present to make it work. Previous owner removed alot of stuff before he left.

Here's a little secret, that most people (especially urban folks) don't know...

You may own land you don't live on (de jure) but you'll never really own it (de facto) till your on it full time.

There is no such thing as unused land... if you own property you don't physically live on, someone, more'n likely the locals, who know the history, the owners (or non-owners, if their not local), more about the land than 'you', are using it... for hunting, foraging, four wheeling, firewood cutting, whatever.

Not saying it's "right". Just saying that this is the way it is.

I'd not invest too much in the property till you move on it.

If you do decide to fence it, you might consider investing in a little 'insurance' by cementing a dozen or t-posts deep along the corners, and where there are roads nearby... to prevent the new fence from getting 'borrowed'.

Whatever you decide, remember, You are the Outsider... and whoever is getting intimate with your land/property is probably an Insider. I'd 'live with it' till I moved there. Go and getting on the wrong side with a prominent clan (by getting one of their chilluns tires ruined, or nails in the feet, etc.) could ensure you a long and horrible future... literal wars have started over smaller things.

Talking to the sheriff about your concerns is ok... but, I'd avoid 'burning' a local. There's just no upside, and plenty of downside to worry about. When you get on the land, ingratiate yourself in the community... help out with the church, volunteer to help anyone and everyone, make yourself out to be indispensable. Achieve this, and then the community will protect your place when your off to work or on vacation. Don't do this, and you'll be holding occupied ground in a hostile country.

Good luck!!!

This just keeps sounding worse. Also remember the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Thanks Texican! I actually lived in that area about 20 years ago, and my grandparents were farmers in the area as well. We have no intentions of going in and creating a ruckus with anyone, we're more of the type who like to keep to ourselves. I do not want to start off on the wrong foot with anyone.

We do have a bit of an advantage. Because I used to do searches for people, I have access to info that allows me to do pretty thorough searches on people. I know a whole lot more about the family than they know about us.

Tips on the fencing are well taken. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I still believe that good fences make good neighbors.

There really aren't many locals where this place is located. It's near a lake, but separated from the lake by a woods. Most of the folks are just summer residents. The drive to their cottages actually runs thru our property, so they will be in for a real treat next winter. Nothing my hubby loves more than to have his tractor out plowing snow. That should make the handful of year-round residents very happy since it looks like nobody plows up there.

very good post!

I don't know Ohio law, but I suggest that you move some of your own furniture into the house.

If he moves back into an empty house, he is squatting and you'll have to go through the courts to evict him. If he moves into a house that you are already occupying, it is a home invasion. Totally different thing.

Thank you oregon woodsmok. In Ohio he has to have lived in the property for 21 consecutive years in full view of the property owner and without any kind of complaint from the property owner to claim any kind of squatter's rights. He would be trespassing and would be arrested for it.

In that case it will be resolved soon. Just like his father lost his property.

THAT IS THE POST OF THE YEAR! I am SOO TIRED of Snobbish land owners(we know them, all sorts of mean signs, but they are never around) Simply put, land you do not USE is land you do not OWN, and even then you do not own it, you just pay TAXES on it!:nono:

We got one of dem properties around here, a nowhere property with a pond, land is in a conversation program. New owners bought the deed and felt it necessary to post signs "NEW OWNER KEEP OUT" and "GAME CAMERAS" etc.

I don't like these people, you never see them, screw them! They treat their new "land neighbors" like this?:grit:

If I ever want to go back there, I will, don't give a crap about their new rude attitude from this city slicker.

Well said Texan, people need to understand this.

His father still lives next door; the OP suspects the former owner, his son, is driving onto theirs from the father's property. The father farmed on his son's land; maybe he paid rent hoping to help his child?

BTW, I wouldn't move anything of value there but would feel out Dad, speak with other neighbors and talk with the authorities.

so if i park my truck somewhere its ok to go and use it ,i dont think so
myself i would have someone drop me off sleep in there on the weekend, and when he opens the door and sees the shotgun i bett he wont be back

gj,

I hope you realize that, in spite of the circumstances and the truth, you are going to forever be branded as the rotten so-and-so who "stole poor little Billy-Bob's house and had him thrown out of his home". Of course that's not what happened but that's how the locals are probably going to view it.

Vern, I appreciate your view, I sincerely do. But, we are not some of those rude city slickers that you're talking about. We were both born and raised in this county. We simply bought this property because it was a good deal, we loved the layout of the house and it had more land for our small farm. We also bought this property knowing that we were going to have to put a lot of time and sweat equity in it to get the house finished.

I realize that it might make us unpopular with one of the neighbors, but we fully intend to introduce ourselves and be polite and neighborly.

Well, it sounds as if the man who 'lost' the house didn't 'own' it either---if he never paid property taxes......

All you can really do is ensure you have adequate insurance coverage on your property,have photograph and video records of the state of your property, post it , install concealed survelience cameras and contact the Sheriffs Department to add it to their patrol route.

As an added tactic you could also introduce yourself to the father of the previous owner and ask him to keep an eye on your property in the interim. If lucky you may get the whole family on video.

Also instead of game cameras you might consider a web connected camara system to provide real time surveilance. A builder friend of mine purchases foreclosed properties and uses a hidden wifi laptop onsite and X-10 micro camera systems to survey his properties.

As with most problems, there are many solutions.
However, please keep in the forefront of your plans, push comes to shove, always.
Tire tracks in the snow is a bit vague. Is he driving across a corner of it or driving up to the back door of the house? The former is a bit like an adult version of, " Maw, he's touching me." Get over it. However, if he is getting into any buildings, the Cops need to fill out a report every time you see a new set of tracks.

Always carry a camera and be ready to use it. Good luck with your land. Sam

What you need to do is make some kind of makeshift gate consisting of a two big steel pipes cemented in the ground with a huge chain and indestructible lock on it. You can unthaw the ground by building a fire on it and digging a hole little by little. I would invest in a trail camera as well, put it up on a fence post or somewhere NOT obvious, hopefully at an angle you can get license plate numbers. POST no trespassing signs and take a picture when you do, that way you have proof you posted your property...even if they are torn down by some trespasser. I once had a neighbor post his property every 30 feet on one side of my property...a little nuerotic don't ya think? Then I caught him fishing in my pond! The look on his face was priceless, LOL!!!

When I lived in Alaska years ago, the town junk yard dealer had wires strung up about 20 feet high all over his lot, making a mesh. He would hang paint cans from the wires, if anyone would drive through, he would shoot a can over their car, splattering them with paint...that only needed to happen a few times.

EDIT: I reread your post and noticed that you will be neighbors with the former landowners relatives. Play it cool, don't get too uptight, this kind of thing can be traumatic for people(losing property)...but they need to understand that it is not their property any longer. Just make your presence known, I'd go up and introduce myself to the relative, I don't think I would mention the trespassing to him, just tell him you will be in the area quite often and this is my car so don't worry, its just me poking around. If you act like a big ahole, from the get go, or act like everyone wants to steal from you, you might deny yourself a good neighbor, having the county mounty cruise around is probably not needed right now.

As they say, country folk have country ways, you'd be wise to abide by them now and make a good first impression.

This does about sum it all up, the good , bad and ugly. Most places I know of trespassing isn't an offense without properly displayed posted signs. By that I mean not on the house but all along the perimeter. I think the spacing has to be 50' or at least in view of each other so no one can come walk through without being able to say they saw:shrug: the sign. Check with the Sheriff's office to see the regulations in that area.
With most of these types they soon enough move on to something else as they wander aimlessly through their life. Better not to directly provoke him though as he can make your life miserable, and you never really know if you are dealing with someone who is truly dangerous. There are some real nut jobs out there.

Ummmm, the "tree" has managed to keep his property...........

For this very reason, I would sell it.
There is NO WAY I would buy a foreclosed home, that butted up too the previous owners relatives.
My fear would be the never, never ending battle......and in my opinion there is not a spot of land in the US worth the stress, hassle and aggravation.

The tracks came from the road, thru the field, then turned and came onto our property right up by the house. It looked like they then used the driveway to exit the property. DH didn't see footprints in the snow, so we're trying not getting too stressed over it. But we also don't want to be to naive at the same time.

DH and I appreciate everyone's advice! We are planning to make daily trips up there at varying times of the day throughout the week, we have been spending our weekends up there working. I think when I go up alone thru the week, I'll take my doberman with me and have a walk about. I've asked the sheriff if they can do an occasional drive-by as well. I'll take my camera up and take pictures too.

We're also going to go and introduce ourselves to the father this weekend. His father's place is up the road from ours. It does look nice, a very well kept older farmhouse.

Funny thing that I forgot to mention, we took our grown kids up a couple of weeks ago to show them the place after we closed. My oldest son said he'd been there before, the previous owner had some tires for sale and he'd went up there to buy them. My son said he probably lost the house because of drugs. I asked him what he meant and he said that when he got there the guy was smoking pot. I said, in front of you?! He said yep. I couldn't believe it, this guy didn't know my son from Adam, heck he could have been an off duty cop for all this guy knew. It appears that the previous owner made some really bad life choices.

I think I agree with Texican mostly. Once you are there every day, things may settle down a bit if you play it right--that is, by not overreacting to every little thing that happens, and by not starting out by putting up signs or cameras, or coming out screaming to get off my property, etc. The fact that it is a foreclosure does add a new dimension to it, though. The property wasn't turned over voluntarily--so you can't forsee how the previous owner felt about it--and about your owning it now. The sheriff is your best friend, he has already dealt with the owner--and may have been called out to evict him once or twice, if he resumed living there after the auction(again by the sheriff)--so I would make an appointment with him and see what's up. I would also be careful about the vacant house turning into a meth lab or hangout. So, I would make an extra effort to be there--leave different lights burning, tracks in the driveway, and foot tracks around the property. Some spent shotgun shells in certain places would also be a sign you have been there. Even a car left overnight, or parked in different spots. These things break what the criminal mind looks for: regularity. By keeping him off balance, you will keep him away.

And, I have always advocated one important thing in new property ownership. A survey--immediately--with all the found irons(so you can put schedule 40 plastic marker rings around them), and then plenty of bright orange flags to mark the perimeters. This breaks the "regularity" with all the people in the neighborhood and lets them know you won't be a patsy as you gradually take your place in the community. The good ones will appreciate that, and the bad guys will back off.

geo

I like the idea of meeting these people...leting them know you are a nice real life person struggling o make it in a new place(even if you are not) but survey and a good fence too.

I would go over to the father's house and tell the father that you wondered if he saw activity on your property and let him know that you have talked to the police and they will be driving by and checking it from time to time to arrest any tresspassers that they see..make sure you have no trespassing signs that state that too..tresspassers will be prosecuted and have them every so many feet that is required by law

Sounds like time to have a party of Bikers and other survivalist type with target practice, that is if you have room for a rifle range....

I didn't read all the responses.. but I would have an alarm system placed on the property with visible signs and window decals. We've had APX for 3 years (and love them) in TX and just had another one of their systems installed here in MA. They'll quit coming around and if they enter the property you'll know.