steel I-beams as header

Sparticle · #21 12/29/10, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danaus29

I'm really curious now. Is it going to be a sod roof with growing grass and short wildflowers? Is the building earth sheltered or out in the open? What will be your main building material for the walls?

Sorry about all the questions. I've been kicking some ideas around in my head for when we can find a decent size piece of land where we can have critters and not worry about zoning codes for a shed. An earth sheltered house with a sod roof so that no one knows it's there would be the coolest of cool, and oh so warm in the winter.

NOt really sod, when I think of sod I think of heavy soil with grass. This will be 3-4" of good dirt (not the clay stuff we have up here at the excavation site, it'll be from the bottom land). Then shallow rooted plants like sedum, chives, strawberries, clover etc.

You don't even have to put dirt on an earthen roof, you can just cover it with strawbales and let nature take it's course. We can't afford that however at $3 per bale.

The house is earth sheltered and 3 of the walls are concrete dry stack block. The South wall is a typical framed wall since it's mostly windows for passive solar gain. Even though there are other building methods that are more "romantic" for the green at heart, this was the best for our skill level (amateur). It'll be a very strong house.

Regarding no one knowing you are there, I read a story once about an off grid family that built w/out a permit. They lived there for years till a small plane noticed something reflecting off the ground and reported it. It was their solar panels and they were found out. So if you aren't wanting to be seen, keep reflectivity in mind ;-)

Danaus29 · #22 12/29/10, 11:40 AM

Yes they would see the cars and the outbuildings too. Good point.

Sounds great. A southern exposure would help with passive solar heating. I don't know what I would do without my southern picture window.

So what do you use (if anything) to keep the soil from washing down into the house?

I've heard about planes being used to check for zoning violations and such. You always hope it won't come to your area, but realize that eventually it will.

Sparticle · #23 12/29/10, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danaus29

Yes they would see the cars and the outbuildings too. Good point.

Sounds great. A southern exposure would help with passive solar heating. I don't know what I would do without my southern picture window.

So what do you use (if anything) to keep the soil from washing down into the house?

I've heard about planes being used to check for zoning violations and such. You always hope it won't come to your area, but realize that eventually it will.

The earthen roof is made of several layers under the soil. Our gravel drainage layer (common method) is going to be replaced by a lighter weight enkadrain at 1 oz per foot. Then some sort of water proof membrane like pond liner etc. Rigid insulation and in the Rob roy book, this insulation is sandwiched between the water proof membrane and polyethelene, then plywood that sits on the joists.

There are lots of sites and books that can help with more specifics, there are lots of ways to do it.

Danaus29 · #24 12/29/10, 03:48 PM

Thanks. I'll have to get some books. I really would like to build a building with a dirt roof, even if it's just a small building like a root cellar or poultry building.

Sparticle · #25 12/29/10, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danaus29

Thanks. I'll have to get some books. I really would like to build a building with a dirt roof, even if it's just a small building like a root cellar or poultry building.

Rob Roy's book "earth sheltered houses" has a nice section on earthen roofs. Right now you can get one on amazon for around $15. I was lucky and got mine much cheaper.

Witterbound · #26 12/29/10, 05:54 PM

If you've got 2x8 king posts on the sides, can't your header be 7.5 inches wide, or built up from some combination of plywood and 2x6's to equal 7.5 inches wide?

Sparticle · #27 12/29/10, 06:01 PM

I"m looking at height, not width as the problem. I needed something with only a 6" profile because the wall is so short. Talked to my Dad today and he said since the wall is 8" wide, I could probably do several 2x6's with plywood sandwiched between till I get to the 8" width. I guess pretty much what you just said. :-)

KySam · #28 12/29/10, 06:39 PM

I would do 2x6 with half inch steel plate sandwiched between them.
Half inch steel plate being the center. Bolt the header together.
It will be 3/4 plywood 2 2x6 steel plate 2 2x6.

Danaus29 · #29 12/29/10, 06:44 PM

I'll have to check out Half Price Books when I get back to that area.

Sparticle · #30 12/29/10, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KySam

I would do 2x6 with half inch steel plate sandwiched between them.
Half inch steel plate being the center. Bolt the header together.
It will be 3/4 plywood 2 2x6 steel plate 2 2x6.

Sweet!

Thanks for the idea.

edit: thanks to EVERYONE who had the 2x6 idea. Just re-read this thread.

Sparticle · #31 12/30/10, 10:55 AM

Trying to draw this up so that it can go with the rest of the drawings to be looked over. So in the 2x6, steel plate, plywood scenario; where does the plywood go? would it be 2x6, then plywood, then steel plate, then plywood, then 2x6 etc till I get to 7 - 1/4" (width of the 2x8 wall)?

KySam · #32 12/30/10, 04:54 PM

You can do 2 2X6s 3/4 plywood 1/2 steel plate 2 2X6s. Use real plywood not osb. Around Kentucky a 2X8 will be 7 1/8 wide up to 7 1/2 depending on where you get them.

If you cant get 1/2 inch steel plate get 2 1/4 inch plates and put the plywood between them.

Sparticle · #33 12/30/10, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KySam

You can do 2 2X6s 3/4 plywood 1/2 steel plate 2 2X6s. Use real plywood not osb. Around Kentucky a 2X8 will be 7 1/8 wide up to 7 1/2 depending on where you get them.

If you cant get 1/2 inch steel plate get 2 1/4 inch plates and put the plywood between them.

Thanks for the tips. I decided to go ahead and elevate the North / South walls back to the original design because the door was just going to have to be too short. But I"m still going to use this header idea to submit.

uhcrandy · #34 01/11/11, 01:28 PM

There is engineered lumber that is signifcantly stronger that dementional lumber. Perhaps you could check out that? Your lumber yard can help you.

tiogacounty · #35 01/11/11, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uhcrandy

There is engineered lumber that is signifcantly stronger that dementional lumber. Perhaps you could check out that? Your lumber yard can help you.

You will find that a product called LVL or laminated veneer lumber will be plenty strong and a LOT cheaper and easier than building a built up header with a steel plate. The smallest LVL I use is 1-3/4" X 7-1/4". It runs less than $3 a foot and it is roughly 3x as strong as dimensional lumber of the same size. IF you do not have to answer to any code officials, I would rip LVL to the right height, laminate three pieces together with high strength lags, using pairs of them on 16" centers. These are 1/4" x 4" lags that are commonly used to build decks and retaining walls. They are stronger than 3/8" traditional lags and can be driven flush with a 1/2" drill. This will provide a header roughly equal to 8 or 9- 2x6s nailed together, and will definitely do the job. It also provides a solution that can be nailed into place. Steel beams make lousy headers since the are tough to insulate and need to be wrapped in wood to be usable in a finished home. Steel plate reinforced headers are a great way to deal with extreme loads, but they are expensive and tough for a DIYer to deal with. Good luck