maggots as chicken feed

Cheribelle · #21 12/27/10, 05:42 PM

My husband used to have a friend that would hang roadkill over his pond and the maggots would feed the fish. I wondered about feeding chickens that way a few years ago and though I never got a good reason, I did get a huge NO. So I never tried it. looks now like that was a good decision.....

||Downhome|| · #22 12/27/10, 05:43 PM

no one person knows everything, not I nor you or any other person on this forum.
there are many that visit here that have a wealth of knowledge from various sources.
I do not think it to far out of line to ask where or how that knowledge was gained.
fact vs opinion. now some one could practice this for a lifetime and never have a problem nor be aware of it being s problem caused by such a practice or they could have problems off the bat and either draw the correlation or be in the dark of the cause.

in response to your question, yes i expect due diligence in research of ideas or to question where one might look for such info or garner support of material presented. Anything other is just lazy.
but I don't hold someone to task who is trying to do just that.
the internet while large and full of info, is again large and therefore intimidating and formidable in the acquisition of such knowledge. the saying don't believe everything you read holds true for much of what you will turn up in researching. also any good info is sometime of proprietary nature or monetary value which also dampens the torch of enlightenment.

the thing to remember is this is a learning forum, most people that post will offer the source of the info or substantiating source when there info is presented. long before they are ever questioned its kinda a given that people will want to know.

no ones calling you out on anything and Paul more then likely was not aware of the possibility of the botulism threat. He is normally filming others and the activity they are performing.lots of different stuff most all permaculture related and hes on various forums. do check out some of his other stuff.
with that understanding I would have to say the practitioner was not aware of the possibility either. by posting here though that knowledge was offered up by other members,including yourself. there by continuing the learning process and furthering the advancement and exchange of ideas,knowledge,information,experiences and practices .

Which is one of the best things of this forum!

pancho · #23 12/27/10, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ||Downhome||

no one person knows everything, not I nor you or any other person on this forum.
there are many that visit here that have a wealth of knowledge from various sources.
I do not think it to far out of line to ask where or how that knowledge was gained.
fact vs opinion. now some one could practice this for a lifetime and never have a problem nor be aware of it being s problem caused by such a practice or they could have problems off the bat and either draw the correlation or be in the dark of the cause.

in response to your question, yes i expect due diligence in research of ideas or to question where one might look for such info or garner support of material presented. Anything other is just lazy.
but I don't hold someone to task who is trying to do just that.
the internet while large and full of info, is again large and therefore intimidating and formidable in the acquisition of such knowledge. the saying don't believe everything you read holds true for much of what you will turn up in researching. also any good info is sometime of proprietary nature or monetary value which also dampens the torch of enlightenment.

the thing to remember is this is a learning forum, most people that post will offer the source of the info or substantiating source when there info is presented. long before they are ever questioned its kinda a given that people will want to know.

no ones calling you out on anything and Paul more then likely was not aware of the possibility of the botulism threat. He is normally filming others and the activity they are performing.lots of different stuff most all permaculture related and hes on various forums. do check out some of his other stuff.
with that understanding I would have to say the practitioner was not aware of the possibility either. by posting here though that knowledge was offered up by other members,including yourself. there by continuing the learning process and furthering the advancement and exchange of ideas,knowledge,information,experiences and practices .

Which is one of the best things of this forum!

Personally I don't care what you feed your chickens or if you even feed them.
A person posted something on this forum that was not very well researched. Something that could cause problems with other people's chickens if they followed his advise.

I posted just to give people who read this forum something to think about before trying such a practice. Like I posted earlier. It was done in the past when people were looking for a cheap source of protein. It proved to be more problems than help. Like many other things, you usually get what you pay for.

You seem to want due diligence except fot the original poster. For some reason you care little that what he posted could endanger birds of others. I don't know if you care so little about other people's chickens or just don't believe the op could make a mistake.

Maybe it would be a little wiser to not put much stock in people who are busy filming others and has very little experience themselves. This forum is supposed to help others, not gripe and complain when a buddy don't do any research but complain when others either have the knowledge and experience or can research a little better than him.

||Downhome|| · #24 12/27/10, 06:26 PM

its not a given that limber neck will happen but a possibility.

again you could do this all your life and never end up with a sick bird.

soured mash can cause the same condition since your so worried I did not see you voice that concern or even leftovers that have over stayed the welcome of the fridge.

he is filming people who are doing these things daily, they are the knowledge part of the videos. though life is a learning process if you keep your eyes and ears open you can always learn something even when you think you have it all figured out.

you where asked for citation, and seems you want confrontation. if you don't care what are you upset about?

pancho · #25 12/27/10, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ||Downhome||

its not a given that limber neck will happen but a possibility.

again you could do this all your life and never end up with a sick bird.

soured mash can cause the same condition since your so worried I did not see you voice that concern or even leftovers that have over stayed the welcome of the fridge.

he is filming people who are doing these things daily, they are the knowledge part of the videos. though life is a learning process if you keep your eyes and ears open you can always learn something even when you think you have it all figured out.

you where asked for citation, and seems you want confrontation. if you don't care what are you upset about?

Yes, if you keep your eyes open you can learn a lot. Some people learn early on and others take 40 years to learn the same thing. Sounds like he should try filmimg people who actually know what they are doing.

Why are you so worried about me posting proof of what I said and yet you do not ask the same of the op? He was the one who started this thread. He was the one who did not research what he posted. He is the one that does not care what happens as long as people listen to him.

Sounds like you and the op has much in common. Lots of talk and little experience.

||Downhome|| · #26 12/27/10, 10:48 PM

insults like flattery will get you no where.

you had your say and I mine, revel in it.

wallow like a hog.

IMContrary · #27 12/27/10, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Wheaton

I think this is one of those times when somebod says "citation needed" - which I always thought was really rude.

So I want to ask: do you, by any chance, have a favorite link about this? I'm kinda curious about how probelematic it might be and if there could be ways to mitigate it.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in...m/bc/71719.htm

Quote:

These fly larvae have also been associated with toxic effects in chickens. Botulism (Botulism: Introduction), also known as limberneck in chickens, has been associated with ingestion of large numbers of larvae of Lucilia caesar , Phaenicia sericata , and other species of flies. Clostridium botulinum multiplies in carrion, where it may be picked up by fly larvae breeding in that medium and then passed on to chickens that eat the maggots. Dead animals should be speedily and safely disposed of, preferably by incineration

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in.../bc/205400.htm

Quote:

Toxin is elaborated in dead carcasses after postmortem release of the organism from the gut. Maggots acquire toxin from carcass tissues and, when eaten by scavenging poultry, serve as a source of neurotoxin. Alternatively, if toxin levels are sufficiently high in carcass tissues, cannibalism can initiate disease. Other feed sources have been implicated in outbreaks in backyard poultry flocks. Botulism in water fowl may result after ingesting dead invertebrates found in water that contains decaying vegetation. Toxico-infectious botulism is reported to occur in intensively reared broiler flocks housed on litter. Mortality may range from a few birds to 40% of a flock. The conditions that allow toxin elaboration in the alimentary tract are not clearly understood because C botulinum can be recovered from normal chickens on farms without histories of outbreaks. However, two outbreaks of type C botulinum in commercial broiler flocks were associated with elevated iron content from feed and water sources. Iron promotes the proliferation of enteric bacteria, including C botulinum .

maggots as chicken feed - Homesteading Questions

salmonslayer91 · #28 12/28/10, 12:01 PM

here is the video Paul Wheaton Upload to Youtube of his maggot chicken feeder

texican · #29 12/28/10, 12:52 PM

I've had maggot feeders before... work okay, but found discarding the effluvium that remains after the maggots are gone to be odorsome. {new word?}
Putting raw meat in slabs in a chicken pen doesn't work good (for feeding) unless the meat is chopped up... put it in fresh, and it'll get tromped into the ground before it's had a chance to decay enough for them to devour it... and the maggots have a hard time ever getting any size (chickens will eat the flies if they linger too long).

Found that easiest way of discarding my excess meat byproducts (after I've trimmed off the edible meat and bones, that I get several times a week from the butchers) is to take them a mile up the road to my "Buzzard/Vulture feeder"... I put the boxes out on my road, ten minutes after I leave, ~50 lbs of fat, meat and fat, etc. will have buzzards partying down on it. Two hours later, when I get back from town, there's nothing left but the boxes.

I have some happy buzzards. As a matter of fact, I'm in the running for the American Buzzard Society's Man of the Year award... Through my efforts, an entire generation of buzzards has fledged their entire brood, on my 'efforts'.

Paul Wheaton · #30 12/30/10, 03:56 PM

How is BSFL better than maggots?

oregon woodsmok · #31 12/30/10, 04:01 PM

You know, I've been thinking about this and the idea of having a seething mass of maggots and rotten meat on my place is very unappealing.

So I'm going to pass.

If that meat is not spoiled to begin with, the chickens can eat the meat for their protien. Then they can just, by golly, earn their keep by going out and catching their own bugs.

gran26 · #32 12/30/10, 08:37 PM

I am not sure at all if this is correct, but I do remember my mother telling me
to keep chickens away from maggots. They eat them live and, according to
what she had been told, sometimes the maggots would start eating the chicken while
the maggot was in the chicken's crop.

||Downhome|| · #33 12/30/10, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gran26

I am not sure at all if this is correct, but I do remember my mother telling me
to keep chickens away from maggots. They eat them live and, according to
what she had been told, sometimes the maggots would start eating the chicken while
the maggot was in the chicken's crop.

sounds like blow or bot fly's I don't know if they would effect birds.

||Downhome|| · #34 12/30/10, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Wheaton

How is BSFL better than maggots?

you really should read up on it Paul, but they secrete a antibacterial substance unlike house fly's , they also emit a pheromone that discourages other flies.

they also a voracious in the consumption of decomposing organics. they can eat a lot and very quickly. couple that with the secretion and lack of introduced pathogens, flies are known to carry a large number,most likely picked up from the brooding feed and in the travels of adults (they are attracted to many nasty things are they not.) and those pathogens can be introduced while the adults are laying their eggs.

lots of info out there, more all the time. I hope to set something up soon.
encouraged by some new material I turned up.

read the comments and the study link

http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/...searcher-ever/

http://thebiopod.com/forum/index.php?topic=112.0

TxMex · #35 12/30/10, 11:14 PM

If ya'll just have to raise some kind of bug for chickens....how about earthworms? It doesn't get much safer than that and it's pretty easy to boot.

Not sure if there are any hazards associated with them, but how about silk worms? They are very prolific and eat mulberry leaves.

There's just too many possibilities of problems with something rotting around your place. Not to mention the extra flies that would be attracted.

||Downhome|| · #36 12/30/10, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxMex

If ya'll just have to raise some kind of bug for chickens....how about earthworms? It doesn't get much safer than that and it's pretty easy to boot.

Not sure if there are any hazards associated with them, but how about silk worms? They are very prolific and eat mulberry leaves.

There's just too many possibilities of problems with something rotting around your place. Not to mention the extra flies that would be attracted.

read up on the bsfl.

the carcass disposal is only a fraction of the equation, they eat a lot more things. they can survive in a environment earth worms can not, more related to the feed stuff then anything. what they leave behind can be utilized to feed earthworms with out putting the beds in jeopardy.

they are not to be confused with "filth" flies.

the whole beauty is they can make use of waste being generated through normal operations which most other organisms can not or if they can are not well suited as a feed source, systems have been designed to make bsfl self harvesting. they are high in protein and fat.

some of what you suggest would require more effort and resources then what they would take, as they more or less fill a niche much as they do in nature but one that is easily exploited to mans advantage.

all I can say is read up on it they really do seem to be a very promising species for those raising animals dependent or capable of utilizing animal protein.

Paul Wheaton · #37 12/31/10, 08:49 AM

I'll keep my ears open for some BSFL video opportunities.

greif · #38 12/31/10, 02:28 PM

if you deep fry them they are crunchy and kid of nutty flavoured

yum yum

||Downhome|| · #39 12/31/10, 06:12 PM

rather eat a end user of them... LMBO

||Downhome|| · #40 12/31/10, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Wheaton

I'll keep my ears open for some BSFL video opportunities.

hope you do, but make sure you read up as much as possible and have some decent questions ready. you may be able to get some leads from http://blacksoldierflyblog.com.