Crazy Idea about property taxes?

I think you are taking a lot of things for granted, and leaving out key pieces of logic here:
A. I don't know if I'll be able to take of myself in my old age (if I'll reach an old age) or not, and neither do you. Whats more, your assumption that I will not be paying for my care is where the wheels come off of your argument.

B. If your kids police my house, it will be for a salary....for the money. Not to pay me back for chipping in for their education.

C. All the other points made are just a lot more presumption, your kids will pay for my retirement...soldier for my 'freedom'...etc,etc,etc

Of course they will be more likely to have to do those things because over-taxation might leave me without a leg to stand on.

Also your presumption that parents cannot successfully be responsible for their children's education is another broad, sweeping assumption that will not be used as justification for forcing your burdens onto others.

It doesn't matter how much money you have if there were no (or very, very few) new doctors trained.

Yes, but they will have received 12-16 years of education before they can become a police officer. Getting an education is not free, I think we can agree on that. One way or another somebody is going to pay for it.

The current model of education in the US is that government largely covers the cost of that education through a variety of taxes levied on the populace.

The model you seem to propose is that parents be solely responsible for the cost of educating their children. I see two ways of this happening: 1) Wages, salaries, etc. will need to increase in order for parents to directly pay yearly tuition or 2) Loans will be taken out by individuals (i.e. children) to pay for education with the expectation they will be able to pay for the education once finding employment. In the latter scenario I can't imagine that you would fine any lender, save the government, to cover such a risky proposition. Moreover, we can expect that under this system these 'children' will demand higher wages to cover their outrageous loan payments.

Either way, the costs will trickle back to each of us in the form of higher costs for goods and services. Your portion of the property tax bill that goes to fire and police has just gotten larger because salaries will have increased to account for the costs of education. I would even venture to guess that the increase in that and similar portions of your property taxes would roughly equal the cost of school taxes.

Really, in your 80's you expect to be a soldier fighting against a bunch of 20 year olds in the prime of their life? 'Pay' isn't exactly the right word. I think provide is a better word to use. The next generations will provide you with the social order necessary for you to live and function. They will be the bankers who invest your 401k, they are the policy makers fighting inflation so your money stuffed under mattress doesn't devalue to nothingness.

I think this is the krux of the disagreement here. I believe that preparing the next generation is a burden that we all share because, collectively, it is in our best interest.

You don't seem to believe this line of reasoning, which is your perogative, but really don't offer any insightful way to reorganize the system beyond: "You can't have my money".

Whistler

I think Oneoakie has the perfect solution...

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Who Knows, Perhaps in Death,
We Weep at the though of Life.

Moreover, what are you going to do when parents decide not to take responsibility for their children's education? Don't kid yourself, there is a substantial population of people who would abrogate this responsibility in a heartbeat.

So, are you going to take the kids away?

Live and let live as the aggregate capacity of society begins to sprint backwards?

You get taxed on capital you have accumulated through wealth creation. You shouldn't be taxed on those same dollars every year, in my opinion, only dividends and capital gains. That is confiscation of wealth in its purest form if you tax the principle also. I could see a lot of money being moved to the Caymans and elsewhere if that ever became law.

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Hillbilly and Proud of It!

Again you are guilty of a logical disconnect, I'm afraid. All of your scenarios seem to boil down to a choice between my paying for your kids education....or the entire world spinning off of its axis. I reject your presumption that our "collective interest" rests in my shouldering your burdens. I suggest that it is just this type of departure from individual responsibility that threatens our "collective interests".

I reject your presumption that children will be uneducated and incompetent if I don't pay your bills.

And I reject the presumption, which is based on nothing but your wishful thinking and wild guess work, that I will be reliant on the public education system for my future well-being.

You do not seem to believe THIS line of thinking and seem to offer little else beyond, "give me your money".

I've worked in the public education system. And if you believe that the type of kids with parents who don't care about their education are gaining anything from sitting in a classroom (other than free day care), then you my friend are a very naive fellow.

Perhaps I am missing something then. Explain your thoughts on how to restructure the funding mechanisms behind the education of children.

I too have worked in the school system. Indeed there were many children whose parents really didn't 'care about their child's education'. All of them left my stewardship as better readers, mathematicians, and what not. Did they advance as much as they could have if their parents provided more urgency? No, of course not. But to say they didn't grow at all is plain wrong.

I reject your assumption, which is based on your wild guesswork and wishful thinking, that I am a naive fellow.

Your question implies that there is no other possible way to educate a child than to impose on the property owner. A discussion of all the possibilities and all the 'what if's' could fill this thread for years.

I am only suggesting that the current system does unfairly burden those who do not have children in school, while giving an almost 'free ride' to those that do. I am entertaining the possibility that it might be better if individuals were more responsible for themselves and their own families instead burdening me and trying to justify it with collectivist rhetoric.

Hey, I think you have a legit opinion and it's worth debating. Would you perhaps summarize a couple of the possibilities for solutions that you have turned over in your mind?

I believe that there are many factors that should be weighed here before we presume to burden the tax payer, and tell him with a straight face that this is for 'his own good'.

A few that come to mind are;

1. Does the slight improvement of reading and writing in a child with an absentee parent justify the burden to the taxpayer? How does one measure one against the other?

2. Do these children retard the learning of others by disrupting and slowing the class....and what are the consequences of that to society, and do they justify burdening the taxpayer?

There are many, many more factors that should be weighed and concrete answers should be found before we continue under the pretense that this is for all of our good. And remember that raising a persons tax burden also has negative consequences on a society. Many believe that we serve the collective, by serving the individual.

IMO, before you take a persons money you'd better have all the facts behind you and you'd better be able to make your case concrete, not based on sound bites like 'it takes a village', and 'the children are our future'. These things sound great but I'm interested in the facts.

I have considered property tax rebates for those without children in the public school system. That would help relieve the unfair burden.

I have considered tax incentives for home schooled kids.

Privatizing schools where parents pay at least a nominal monthly fee...

I'm sure there are other ideas worth considering too.

....but everything....EVERYTHING, begins with cutting waste. We have to approach every penny spent by government as a terrible cost to the people, a direct threat to our economic well-being and only spend what is absolutely necessary to achieve the goal.

Interesting, I have to run but will respond later.

A state is a body politic. It is specifically not a land mass. How do you propose to do a land survey on a bunch of people?

Not I. At least not yet anyway. However the method described is how the West was settled. I am not recommending this method to anyone who lacks the appropriate equipment (stones).

If you like you can download "Handbook of the Law of Real Property" from google books. It is only 190mb but is a free download. You might want to take a hard look at the title first though as most illusion specialists would have you believe that "real property" is Land. Property overlays land. Covers it like water.

Some interesting comments. I would pose this question, How many people are present at public meetings where the spending of this tax revenue takes place ie school board, county supervisors, city ect ect. If we want lower taxes we have to have lower spending. these meetings are where budgets and spending decisions are made. The meetings should be packed with citizens who pay the bills instead of virtually empty. If we can not get local government spending under control, do we have any chance on the federal level? Some have made the point, if you want less taxes what are you going to cut? Most of us do not know how much or where the money is actually being spent. You get the government you deserve. We need to deserve better government.

Boy I am glad that I don't live in MN. It would be bad to be arrested but to pay for it would be terrible.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

Vote!

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Moms don't look at things like normal people.
-----DD

I would like an itemized (tax) bill...lol where did my money go?...he he haww!!!