A thread on VW's. What do you guys think?

[clovis]

Originally Posted by RedTartan

A close friend of mine is an avid VW fan. She owns an old bug, a thing, and two golfs. She drives whenever we go anywhere and her VW's don't sound like cars. They sound like machines! She gets around 30mpg in her golfs. One of her golf's has 230K miles on it and still drives great.

You know, I got to thinking about this thread today during some drive time I had.

I wonder if your close friend isn't like my uncle, who is brainwashed with a certain auto brand. He is ate up about Toyotas, to the point that it is laughable.

He has owned several Terdcels and Camrys. If you listen to him, those are the finest cars ever built in the world, and there has never been a break down or a repair needed by any Toyota ever produced.

Then, when you get to talking to his wife, she'll tell you how much they've spent keeping those junker Toyotas on the road. They've literally spent thousands and thousands of dollars...but you never once hear him admit that any Toyota has been in a shop for repairs, especially his.

People can be in love with whatever brand they own, for all I care. But there is a large segment of those people who will never be honest about the $1800 they spent getting the brakes done, $2900 for a tranny rebuild, $1900 for a head gasket, $400 for a radiator, $350 for an alternator, $400 for a starter, $800 for a new timing belt...and the list goes on and on.

Why on earth anyone with a brain would keep dumping money like that into a 91 Camry, I'll never know.

The more I think about it, the more people I know that are like this. My FIL is brainwashed with Kias, but has dumped thousands into his old Kia keeping it going. "Great little car" he'll proclaim.

These are the same people that if given another brand, especially American, they would go crazy with complaints if they had a flat tire after picking up a nail on the road. "Those Chevy's are junk. My __________ would never have left me stranded like that."

Is your friend being honest with the repair bills...or is she just brainwashed?

[tiogacounty]

Clovis, I have a friend that owns a small fleet of S-10 pick-ups for his landscaping business. He suffers from the same disease. They are unreliable, constantly in need of repairs, neglected and abused by his crews. But reality and his opinion of his collection of junk will never match.

[PhilJohnson]

I knew a guy who was a diehard Honda fan. The head on his new Honda needed to be replaced at 30k (amongst other things) and the dealer told him that was normal maintenance. I bet the dealer could have told him that changing the motor and trans every 10000 miles was normal maintenance and he would have bought it.

I have collection of car magazines that go back to the early 60s and you can tell even then there were import snobs then. A lot of the cars were just awful but because they were foreign they must be better. I've had them all, every car manufacturer has made turds. Toyota's head gasket blowing v-6s, Honda's trashomatics of the 80s and early 90s, Mazda's now you see it now you don't rust-a-way truck frames, Saturn's oil burning 4 cylinders, Ford's Contour (not sure if there is anything redeeming about those things, could go on and on.

The majority of my parent's vehicles have had at least 200k on them when they bought them. All of them domestic. Never had any of the vehicles strand anyone on the side of the road. I'd say especially today any domestic car could go toe to toe with an import in reliability. Near as I can tell most of the American cars suck attitude is directly traceable back to the early 70s. A combination of union workers sabotaging cars, emissions standards, and some very poor compact cars (Vega is a real standout) is all it took for people to think that forever Americans can't build cars. The thing is if you have a 70s era American full size car and get the emissions junk sorted out they'll go just as long as a little Toyota of the same era. Also foreign cars rotted out super bad, something that is completely forgotten. The Germans seemed to have the rust bug beat by the early 80s but the Japanese (notably Toyota) couldn't figure out how to make a truck frame that wouldn't break in half from rust even during the 90s.

Originally Posted by tiogacounty

Clovis, I have a friend that owns a small fleet of S-10 pick-ups for his landscaping business. He suffers from the same disease. They are unreliable, constantly in need of repairs, neglected and abused by his crews. But reality and his opinion of his collection of junk will never match.

Eh I think that has more to do with the abuse of his crews then the vehicle. I worked for the county forestry department. Those poor things were beat on constantly. The one van had a transmission go out at 10,000 miles, the 40,000 mile F-250 blew an engine. The mechanic found water in every cylinder. What he didn't know is a few of the forestry employees tried to see how much water the truck could go through. They got it stuck in the middle of a river and somehow got it out without any of the supervisors finding out. That same truck got hit by a train. Some how it just quit right on the tracks I will say GM's OHC four cylinders that they put in the S-10 weren't real great and neither was the 2.8 v6. The old 151 four cylinder or the 4.3 v6 are really good motors, either one will get to 200k no problem. My parent's have had a series of Astro vans with the 4.3 and beyond smoking on start up every single one ran great the day they were sold (with 280,000 plus miles).

[arabian knight]

Originally Posted by PhilJohnson

My parent's have had a series of Astro vans with the 4.3 and beyond smoking on start up every single one ran great the day they were sold (with 280,000 plus miles).

That 4.3 is a great motor.
My '89 GMC full sized PU has that V6 and, in 4,000 miles that same motor with very little work on it over the years, will go over 300,000~!! Still hauls plenty of hay bales and pulls my horse trailer. and 20+ in gas mileage. it has a 5 speed manual with overdrive tranny.

[mightybooboo]

Thats true about folks dont always come clean on repairs.One Family member is a Toyota mechanic,he tells all kind of horror stories about bad designs and difficult repairs and also makes very good money,someone is supporting him.Look behind the dealer,those repair bays are filled.

As for my case,the Uncle with the Passats,he was an Executive Financial officer and could whip out facts and figures on how pennies mean millions.Was as honest a man as you will ever meet,died very financially secure. Believe me,if a vehicle was nickle or dime-ing or pennying him he wouldnt have ever bought a second.He wasnt into style at all,the bottom line only.It was his life.

[RedTartan]

Originally Posted by clovis

Is your friend being honest with the repair bills...or is she just brainwashed?

Just saw this. Actually, I think she may be brainwashed. I called her and asked about the car I was considering and she seemed to defend her VW's kind of crankily. I found out a little later the used golf she just got was already in the shop. She forgot to mention it was in for repairs, I guess

She and her husband acted like they thought it was normal for a car to be in for something about twice a year!!! That's way too much maintenance for me. My current car (97 Chevy Venture Minivan) was just in the shop for the first time in several years to get new tires and the tie rods (sp?) replaced. I've got 105K miles on it and so far it's still running good. Gas mileage kind of sucks which is why I was looking at something smaller that I could use for shopping, etc. and I could keep my van for family outtings.

I've done more research and have found that Honda's are top-rated for reliability, specifically, the Accord. I like the way VW's look but the accord ranked #1 and the first VW wasn't on the list until #36. Sooooooo...

[roachhill]

I like the old air cooled VW engines not for reliability but for the ease of repair. They don't need to go to the shop because unless your brain dead you can handle the repairs at home. Repairability is a feature completely lost on modern vehicles when they break it's time to buy a new one or pay a big repair bill. That said my GM 4.3 is a good reliable motor but couldn't hold a candle to my old Ford 300 straight six. I should have never sold that old Ford P/U. Bought it for $800 and maybe put that much into it over the years for all it's repairs and maintainance.

[phrogpharmer]

I also had several VW bugs during the 70s and 80s. They worked well for me at the time because I worked on them myself. My particular favorite was a 56 bug with a sunroof. It's economical 36 hp engine ran great as long as I adjusted the valves every 2,000 miles. It was also great in the snow and on really rough roads if driven slowly. The heaters were pathetic and I got tired of not daring to drive over about 50 mph. They got me through some really lean times and I was lucky to not ever have gotten into a wreck. I wouldn't feel safe driving one on the highway now though.

[Cabin Fever]

Originally Posted by arabian knight

That 4.3 is a great motor....

That's because it's the famous GM 350ci (5.7L) V8 engine with two cylinders knocked off! IMHO, the GM 350 was the best, most durable, gasoline V8 engine ever produced!

[arabian knight]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

That's because it's the famous GM 350ci (5.7L) V8 engine with two cylinders knocked off! IMHO, the GM 350 was the best, most durable, gasoline V8 engine ever produced!

I will agree will you 100%.
The Suburban that is in my Avatar had a 350~! Well a 5.7 lol.
And at over 275,000 on it no engine problems at all, before I sold it.
BUT it was on its 3rd tranny, (even with a transmission cooler) And changing the fluid a few times.
That was a weak part of full sized Chevy's back in the late 80's as they TRIED to make a regular 3 speed Transmission into a 4 speed Overdrive one.
Bad Bad bad design planning. And people wonder why American Auto manufactures were in trouble, and played Catch Up for Years, with the foreign guys.
You build a NEW transmission from scratch to make it a over drive one, you do not modify one IMO.

[GoldenCityMuse]

Yeah, but R&D does not help the next quarters stock results. Chasing after Wall Street nitwits.

[arabian knight]

Originally Posted by GoldenCityMuse

Yeah, but R&D does not help the next quarters stock results. Chasing after Wall Street nitwits.

You still don't R& D something that is being in use. That is where American Auto manufactures were wrong, as they tried there best to please the union bosses, that was sucking them dry. And failed. Big Time. Now look at what trouble at least 2 are in.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

That's because it's the famous GM 350ci (5.7L) V8 engine with two cylinders knocked off! IMHO, the GM 350 was the best, most durable, gasoline V8 engine ever produced!

They were the cheapest V8 to rebuild. Not the best V8 by a long shot. Especially the 70s era ones. I know, I had a 73 Chev 3/4 ton, that 350 burned and leaked oil like no other engine I ever owned (except maybe the 1967 Chevy 283 V8 I had) and got 8mpg. Think it lasted little over 100k miles where it made nice hole in side of the block. when I replaced it with a cheap used Buick 350 using same transmission and even same carburetor, and mileage literally doubled to 16mpg.

Notice when GM looked for strong block to make a diesel conversion engine, they didnt use a small block Chevy block, they used the Oldsmobile V8 block. The Olds diesel had its problems, but the block wasnt one of them. Olds gasoline V8 taken care of will greatly outlast a Chevy 350. Even the Olds 307 which had to be the worst version they made, still last good long time. The Olds gas 350 got same gas mileage as the 307, but had considerably more power. The Olds 260 lasted as well as any of the Olds "Rocket" V8 family and was an incredible mileage champ. Time it came out the people that wanted V8s wanted bigger more powerful V8s and didnt appreciate it for the durable mileage champ that it was. Those looking for mileage werent interested in a V8 at all. Real shame.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by arabian knight

I will agree will you 100%.
The Suburban that is in my Avatar had a 350~! Well a 5.7 lol.
And at over 275,000 on it no engine problems at all, before I sold it.
BUT it was on its 3rd tranny, (even with a transmission cooler) And changing the fluid a few times.
That was a weak part of full sized Chevy's back in the late 80's as they TRIED to make a regular 3 speed Transmission into a 4 speed Overdrive one.
Bad Bad bad design planning. And people wonder why American Auto manufactures were in trouble, and played Catch Up for Years, with the foreign guys.
You build a NEW transmission from scratch to make it a over drive one, you do not modify one IMO.

They tried to cheap out. It costs a lot to design an engine or a transmission from scratch.

After the pickup manufacturers discontinued their old granny four speed manual transmissions as an option, they only offered light duty manual transmission in a half ton pickup. YOu had to buy a 3/4 ton or 1 ton to get a 5 spd overdrive as tough as the old cast iron granny four speeds. Now Government Motors doesnt even offer a manual transmission in their half ton pickups. Wow, times have changed.

They played the same game with automagic trannies. Short term dollar signs got in way of common sense and they had to recall lot of early overdrive automatics. GM's 700-R4 with some heavier duty parts became quite reliable and hotrodders now love them. Early on, people were having shops replace them with old TH350 trannies when they gave up the ghost. A rebuilt TH350 without overdrive was less than half the price of a rebuilt 700-R4 though it was basically same transmission with overdrive added AND the early 700-R4 did NOT have a good reputation. And even now if you ever want to replace a 700-R4, you buy from the specialty shops that sell heavy duty rebuilt ones to the hot rodders. You dont get generic one from Autozone or someplace. A good one will cost you around $1600 rebuilt. But it will last. The $800 bargain ones wont. Those prices are cash and carry for tranny only. Labor of course unless you R&R it yourself, will cost lot more.

[gunsmithgirl]

I had a VW Jetta, ran forever had almost 300,000 when I sold it and the only repairs it needed other than the usual maintenance was a distributor cap once and the clutch wore out and had to be replaced, but that was kinda expected.
I got great gas mileage too. I would buy another in a heartbeat.

[arabian knight]

Originally Posted by HermitJohn

They tried to cheap out. It costs a lot to design an engine or a transmission from scratch.

After the pickup manufacturers discontinued their old granny four speed manual transmissions as an option, they only offered light duty manual transmission in a half ton pickup. YOu had to buy a 3/4 ton or 1 ton to get a 5 spd overdrive as tough as the old cast iron granny four speeds.

Don't I know that. The PU I have, I bought from a friend, that bought it new. And Yes it had one of those 3 speed light duty tranny's in it, the same ones they use in cars for pete's sake.
That tranny went to pieces as he was pulling a 2 horse trailer with 2 horses in it and would go to many horse shows.
So once that tranny went he had a guy put in a 5 Speed over drive one, and that is what is still it, with close to 300K miles on the whole truck. I pull a small trailer, and still haul 35 bales of hay at a time.
That is one nice tranny.
The only thing I don'e like is 1st gear is LOW, real LOW, so you are about half way through a intersection, with cars getting on ones backside, real closing on you fast, and Bingo, you HAVE to Shift to 2nd~!
That really ticks off a few people, lol.
And 2nd gear is just high enough, that even empty, in order to start out in 2nd, you would have to "Ride The Clutch", not that is not good to do either. So I don't. lol
But it still runs good, and I am glad it is a full sized 1/2 ton. And not one of those "short box "tinker toy" ones. lol