...re-wiring an old trailer

Just to be clear-- There is nothing inherently wrong with aluminum wiring.
It has to be sized larger than copper (which it probably was), but it can corrode at connection points over time.
People still use it and it's perfectly kosher.

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~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

You attach a water hose to the drain valve on the WH, open the drain valve, let the water run out of the hose onto the ground. (similar to running hot water out of a faucet at the kitchen sink or bathroom sink.)

Turn off the power to the WH before doing this.

oneokie, I always appreciate your help. However, getting the water "out" of the WH is not a problem. I understand that. (Our heater is actually sitting high enough from the ground that we can let it drain into a bucket to dump where we will.) It is the "flushing" I need to better understand the steps to. I am such a concrete thinker that, if I cannot "picture" the "step-by-step" procedure, I cannot get from start to finish. (I need to see the entire process .. step-by-step .. "before" I start; otherwise I could make some very costly mistakes.)

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1) turn off power
2) attach hose to valve on bottom of water heater
3) run hose outside on the ground
4) turn on bottom valve. You still have water pressure so this pressure will flush the tank of "junk" on the bottom that might be touching the element
5) turn off water to tank. this will let tank drain through hose
6) remove elements, top one first, check how much "stuff" is in bottom of tank, if a lot, may need to break it up and remove)
7)replace elements, if aluminium wire use the product made for this.
8) fill tank with water and open a faucet to release any air in system before turning power back on.
9) turn power back on

These wires should be retightened once a year and checked for any corrosion. Aluminium and other metals react to each other. Samre should be done at the breaker box, especially on larger breakers.

....James

Since this occurred, we have juggled our hot water usage to make sure we do not drain the tank. So far the breaker has not tripped again; but we are going to proceed with the suggestions made in here anyway. Thanks everyone.

You do not drain the tank, you just use up the hot water stored and the waterheater can't make it fast enough to satsfy the demand....SO you have cold water. Or when the second element (if you have one) kicks in (especially if it is grounded by "junk" causing the breaker to trip.
That POP you heard is our concern. When it did this it either burned off the ground, got a better connection to a hot wire or burned out an element. If the element is 220 volt it may have burned off 1 wire completely leaving you with only 110 volts to that element. This burned off wire could start a fire if the element kicks in again. CHECKING THE WIRING AT THE ELEMENTS IS URGENT!!!! Check for a burned wire or traces of black residue from heat....James

W/ the heater turned off and the incoming water supply still turned on [that is the source of your water pressure] hook a hose to the outlet faucet on the heater and extend it out away from the trailer. You now have a heater tank under pressure and a relief hose extended out where it won't be splashing up in your face +/or spraying all over the electric connections, etc.]

Opening the outlet faucet allows the pressurized water in the heater to exit from the bottom w/ force pushing out the built up sediment. You do not want to catch this w/ a bucket as it will splash all over. This is flushing the tank.

With the inlet water supply on the heater will not run dry and after the water gets clear [indicating the sediment is now gone] you could close the faucet and turn the power back on UNLESS you want to drain the heater and pull the elements to check their condition. You just need to close off the inlet water supply and let the heater tank drain b/4 you remove the elements...

Are you saying you have 3 runs of wire from your meter pole to your trailer? Each is a seperate feed from the meter pole & end up feeding to the same trailer house?

This is a big no-no and can create strange loops, especially when power goes through 220v appliances like a water heater.......

I might be misunderstanding you, but there should be one switch that will cut off the power to your entire house and any electrical device on or wired to your house.

If you actually have:

A set of wires feeding your house;

And a set of wires feeding your air conditioner attached to the house;

And a set of wires feeding to your computer in the house;

If that is 3 different sets of wires headed to the same building, you have things very much not to code and just wrong. Only allowed one main feed to any building, especially a house.

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Aluminum wire is great for service feeds - the main wires leading to a building. It needs a special grease on the ends where you connect it, hopefully your hubby used the correct grease & correct fittings rated for aluminum when he wired all this. Aluminum likes to expand & shrink with temp changes, and over the years it will loosen up. The loose connections will start to heat making the problem worse, and eventually arcing and sparking will happen, which can start a fire.

Many mobile homes from that era were wired with all aluminum wire throught, and it was not properly greased & properly tighten up, so those era of homes tend to have _many_ problems with loose connections and possible fire issues. For these reasons, aluminum wire within a house for interior wire runs is now frowned upon - it can be done properly & no problems, but in the real world it kept turning up as a dangerous problem. The bigger feed wires to a building are easier to make safe.

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You likely have a problem surrounding the water heater but it's not for sure the water heater itself - likely, but not for sure. It's possible an aluminum wire in that area of the home is loose; it's possible the water heater itelf has a burned out element or loose wire; it's possible the 3 different feeds or wire going to your mobile home from the meter are setting up an odd back-feed situation through the water heater if some other wire someplace else had come loose.

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I'm just a farmer, no electrician, so don't take my ideas as worth anything on this. Sorry for the long post & multiple thoughts in it don't mean to confuse, but a lot to think on here, lots of different possibilities.

--->Paul

Just now getting back to this thread. You have been given very good step by step instructions on flushing the WH.

If you do decide to drain the WH, after turning off the water supply, open a faucet at one of the sinks to allow air to enter the piping. This will prevent the draining water from pulling a vacuum in the piping in the home and make for faster draining. Opening a hot water faucet will allow the air to enter the top of the WH. Opening a cold faucet will allow the air to enter the lower part of the WH, which may help loosen any sediments in the WH.

After draining the WH, leave the hot faucet open when turning the water supply back on. Doing this will allow air in the piping to escape while the WH is refilling.

True, But....A big problem happens IF a new style stab outlet or switch is used with aluminium wire. The style that has no screw to tighten, just push the wire into the connection. This connection is a NO-NO. Builds heat and the aluminium wire melts. BIG problem....James

Thank you so much James. I now understand I don't have to attach my outdoor water hose to the hot water heater and turn the outdoor faucet on to flush out the heater. It is "flushed" simply by attaching some short hose (useless for anything else) to the drain and letting the water in the heater run out.

When you say "...turn off water to tank..." I am guessing we turn it off where it is going into the house and this is only done when the element(s) are going to be removed.

Wis Bang 2, what I hear you saying is similar, i.e. that we don't need to turn off the water flowing "into" the tank to "flush" it; but we do need to if we are going to work with the elements in there. I do hope I am understanding correctly. (I will "not" use a bucket. Thank you.)

David says he will deal with all this as soon as he can.

Paul, we do have 3 wires going into the trailer; but only one is connected to the meter box that controlls all wires running thru the walls. The other 2 wires are directly buried from 2 different breakers in the meter box on the utility pole and each is hooked up to only one unit in the house. We also have the 4th underground wire from the outside meter box that runs to the barn. (The electrician looked at all this when he was here and told us it looked fine to him before he hooked up the one to the barn. I believed he knew better than I; so I have not been concerned about it. Wondering now if we should be concerned.)

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Any time you flush or TURN WATER supply off on electric water heater TURN the power/breaker OFF this will prevent damage to elements, also to insure your life when doing any thing around electric water heater SHUT the breaker OFF. Water and electric power make a DEADLY mix. I think you need to get someone with experience to help you, are you in S/W MO?
Glenn

[QUOTE=motdaugrnds;4814933 Paul, we do have 3 wires going into the trailer; but only one is connected to the meter box that controlls all wires running thru the walls. The other 2 wires are directly buried from 2 different breakers in the meter box on the utility pole and each is hooked up to only one unit in the house. We also have the 4th underground wire from the outside meter box that runs to the barn. (The electrician looked at all this when he was here and told us it looked fine to him before he hooked up the one to the barn. I believed he knew better than I; so I have not been concerned about it. Wondering now if we should be concerned.)[/QUOTE]

I don't see anything wrong with the way it is set up as long as you make sure you turn each circuit off when working on it. It just has to be turned off at pole. Each is a free standing circuit, no problem there. The circuit to the barn has nothing to do with the house, if there is a problem it will be dealt with seperately....James

Glenn, We are aware that working on anything electrical requires the breaker to be turned off "first". I would love to have a professional tend to all this; however, unfortunately, we cannot afford it. David and I have had to do many things we do not know how to do. Our entire homestead has been constructed this way. With the information everyone in here has so generously shared, we should be ok.

James, thank you so much for putting my mind at ease about the 4 different underground wires. The electrician who ran the wiring to the out buildings said the same thing, i.e. that each was free-standing and should not pose a problem.

I am still quite concerned about the hot water heater and am hoping David can get that taken care of quickly.

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One thing about your original post does concern me . You said that David ran a 100 amp wire from the pole to the pressure tank & the breaker panel in the home . The 100 amp wire from the pole shouldn't be connected to anything but the breaker panel in the home . The wire for the pressure tank/pump should be ran from a breaker in the breaker panel .
Just for the sake of not being confusing , I believe you only have one meter box & that is outside on the pole . The box inside your home & inside your barn are breaker panels as is the box on the pole underneath the meter box . The only box properly called a meter box is the one that has the meter in it that the electric company sends a person out to read . Not trying to be picky , just trying to clear up possible confusion for anyone who doesn't know .
You say a switch flips off that goes to the tool shed , I believe it was . You also mention breakers so I assume this switch you're talking about is not a breaker , or is it ?

There is nothing wrong with having multiple leads coming from your main pole to feed different buildings. The run to the barn sounds very proper.

And you have a run to your house, which ends in a breaker box in the house & then from there to the kitchen, lights, outlets, etc correct?

The run to the air conditioner from your pole might be ok, if this is outside your house on a concrete base - it's own thing?

The computer outlet I assume is some outlet inside your house in a room? That seems qustionable to me.


Back in the 1950's we had a machine shed that was wired for electricity.

Our deep well was put in in the 70's, and needed a better 220v. So dad put in a different feed box for the well, this box and controls for the well were housed inside the corner of that machine shed.

All was fine in the 1970s.

In 2008 I rewired my farm. The one major issue they had was that building. There was _no way_ to pass code with the 2 feeds from my main pole to the same building.

Now, I have 4 main runs of wire coming off my main pole/transformer. One to the house, one to a shop, one to 3 buildings, and one line branches all over to 6 farm buildings. So I understand about branching off the main pole, and you can juntion off to another building.

However, they do _not_ want one to come from the main pole/transformer with more than one set of wires to one building.

If a fire breaks out, or etc.; they want one feed to each building, so it can't end up being backfed in a loop. So they can flip or cut one set of wires, and know the building is dead. As you have it now, if they cut power to the house, and cut power to the air conditioner, you _still_ would have a live power source in the house from that computer run???? That is not what they want any more.

I don't think it is proper these days for you to be running 3 seperate sets of wire from your main pole/transformer to the same building.

If this was done in the 1970's, it likely was ok back then sorta, and you are grandfathered in. Often one does not need to upgrade old things, only if you do new work.

New work, you should come from the pole/transformer to your house with _one_ service wire set, end in a breaker box in the house, and from there go from that box to each thing you want in that building - including the air condtioner & computer outlet.

Again, this is my simple farmer-understanding of things, I'm certainly no expert in any way shape or form.

--->Paul

WV, I was wrong. David said there is a separate wire from the well pump to the water pressure tank, then on to its own breaker on the utility pole. The 100 amp is only connected to the meter box "inside" the trailer.

Yes, what I called a meter box "inside" the trailer and barn are what you are calling "breaker panels". It becomes quite obvious my terminology is that of a layman. I apologoze for the confusion; and I very much appreciate your clarifying this for me. Yes, what I meant by the switch being flipped off was that it would not turn the light on because the "breaker" inside that "breaker panel" tripped. (See? I can learn the lingo. lol)

Paul, yes, the wire (100 amps) running to the house feeds the kitchen, lights, outlets, hot water heater, etc. The run to the air conditioner is underground wire outside the house quite separate from anything going on in the house. The computer outlet is inside the house (ran up through the floor) but is a direct run "under" the house through a conduit, then underground straight to its own breaker on the outdoor utility pole. This, too, is independent of anything going on through the walls in the house. It was actually a professional who installed our air conditioner; and at the time he put the receptical in for it, he was told that was not connected to any breaker that was in the breaker panel inside the house but was a direct run to its own breaker in the panel on the outdoor pole. I don't believe he would have told us it was ok if it was not legal in this area...at least I sure hope not.

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How about an update . Is your water heater breaker still tripping ? Have you had a chance to check anything yet ?

WV Hillbilly, David was able to take a look at it today.

Once again we discover our Heavenly Father has been taking care of us!

David opened the outside wall of the trailer to expose the bottom part of the hot water heater. He took off the small panel near the bottom of the heater to take a look at those connections. (There were two .. copper wiring.) They are in good shape. He then took off the little panel near the top part of the heater; and there was one of the culprits! There were wires (yellow one and blue one) coming down on each side and the yellow one had obviously been burned. David discovered the coating on the yellow had burned off and the bare wire was touching the "outside" metal casing of the heater. David replaced that with another copper wire that was slightly thicker gauged so it would be less likely to burn out.

There was another problem at the top of the heater, i.e. a slow drip from one of the pipes above the heater that had permitted a build up of water around two separate wires (black one & red one) going down into the water heater. The red one broke when he touched it. Those wires had been connected to "one" large white wire that had 3 wires (black one, white one and grounding wire) inside it. That large white wire is the one running through the wall/ceiling to the inside breaker "panel". David completely disconnected both the red and the black wires from the water heater (as well as from the large white wire that ran through the wall to the breaker panel). Then he separated the 3 wires within the large one and pulled the white and black wires down to connect them where the red & black ones had been...the grounding wire where the other grounding wire had been. Now there is a direct run (no splicing) from inside the water heater to the breaker panel. I turned the breaker back on and all is working well.

The leak still needs fixing; but it got dark; so that will be another day's work.

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I am what I am! Acknowledging this is the beginning; and my growth is yet to end. http://motdaugrnds.com/farmsales ~~~~~ http://motdaugrnds.com

Sure is nice to find a simple problem & an inexpensive fix isn't it ? Also nice to know the wiring is copper . Fix that drip & it sounds like your major problem is taken care of . You mentioned in a previous post that everything had worked fine for 15 years I believe it was . If the water heater is that old or older be aware that the tank could start leaking at any time . When it does it will have to be replaced so you might want to start sticking a few dollars in the cookie jar every now & then .
You could also have a similar problem with the tripping breaker to the flood lights . A not so good connection where the lights connect to the underground wire . Merry Christmas to you & yours .

Yes we will put away a few whenever we can.

David is thinking of putting some "roofing tar" in that area where he found the water sitting around the wires. He will fix that leak as soon as we can afford some piping; yet it would be nice to know that area where the water was found would not hold water again should we have another leak sometime. Any ideas/information about using roofing tar in this way?

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