Need a source for organic meat NOT grass fed

That is complete bunk. There are 3 uses for antibiotics in a feedlot.

The first is as a preventative for new cattle already stressed and in a new environment. This is a short term situation and it's use is by no means universal.

The second is to increase gain. I don't know the science behind it but it works. This is very low dose.

The third is to treat disease, which increases due to confinement. Relatively few animals get this treatment and they are ones actively showing symptoms of specific disease.


Cattle are not fed antibiotics long term to "keep them alive"

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Libertarindependent

This line does not make any sense to me. Most gene expression and protein synthesis of a cow will be the same depending on the diet; a grassfed cow will not be significantly different. Being allergic to grass will not make you allergic to grass-fed meat. The saying "You are what you eat eats" is true, to a certain extent. Ecologically, the statement is true, scientifically, it has some meaning, but is not necessarily true. Milk is milk, and it will be affected by the diet, but it will not be changed to the degree that a person allergic to grass will be allergic to grass-fed meat and dairy.
When food is chewed by the animal, swallowed and digested, the individual nutrients are transported to where they are needed. A grain is only different from grass in that it is more energy-dense, resulting in much fat being formed and a lower level of CLA is also in hand. Now, a cow fed a 100% grain diet is not possible, since it will develop too many health problems. However, poultry can be fed a 100% grain diet fairly easily, again, it will not change it to that degree. I have a relative who has a yeast infection. She is allergic to chicken, whether it be a grain-fed or pasture-raised chicken. She can eat turkey, however, be it grain-fed or pasture-raised. She is mildly allergic to beef, be it grain-fed or pasture raised. She is not allergic to lamb or goat. We did a kinesiology test on her; she is allergic to roughly 60% of all food.

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Wow that is "out there" in thinking for sure. What ever I guess.
I have been doing this feeding grain only for the last 35 years. And not only do None of my steers gets shots of any kind, or antibiotics, I don't even feed medicated milk replacer.
And when I buy grain that is "calf starter", it is Not Medicated, and can be used for feeding horses also.
Where in the world do some people get their information on things like that from?

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Don't mean to go off topic, but that is actually a problem with feedlot cattle. Giving an animal a low dose is a very bad idea, especially if it is routine. Scientists are becoming very concerned with the advent of superbugs and antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria.

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I'm not going to hijack this thread. Just posting it to correct misinformation. It is not relevant to to OP and I'll not mention it again in this thread.

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Libertarindependent

Yeah, but they get LOTS AND LOTS OF HAY, which is the same thing, fiber-wise. If you feed cattle nothing but grain you will kill them. Their rumen MUST have the roughage from grass (fresh or hay).

LOL
I only have been this way of feeding my steers like that for the last 35 years and not one has died.
How preposterous in thinking that not feeding hay will kill them.
And others on here are doing the same as I am. Geesh.
And under that Tend R Lean Program which has been going on now for 35 Plus Years, NO hay, not one single Flake is being fed to those steers either. And that is a national feed program also. You start out with a ration of 10 to 1 10 parts Ted r Lean to 1 part corn, and go the other direction for one year. till at the end of one year, it is 10 Parts CORN to 1 Part Tend r Lean.

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Well, you get a big FAIL. I am a veterinarian, and have been one for 28 years. I am not, however, an animal rightist. I DO consider myself an animal welfarist. I am not a vegetarian. So don't pigeonhole me.

Cattle MUST have the vast amounts of fiber found in grass, whether it be fresh pasture grass, hay, or silage. Diets heavily based on grain are behind the vastly increased incidence of STEC (shiga-toxic E. coli aka E. coli O157:H7) because they promote ruminal acidosis. A diet high in grain also leads to much bigger problems with liver abscesses IIRC and that leads to cattle being fed too many antibiotics, which increases antibiotic resistance in bacteria that cattle harbor.

It's medical fact. I may be a suburban cat doctor, but I DO have an ongoing interest in food safety issues and zoonoses and this is one of the hot topics in that area because it ultimately impacts on disease risk to humans.

And I still think raising any cow cradle to grave without ever allowing it to graze on pasture is cruel and abusive. Factory farming AT ITS WORST.

Whatever.

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It's not "way out there", lol. It's medical fact. Rumen pH is important in determining what bacteria can survive in the rumen and which can't.

THANK YOU. When I was getting my BS in microbiology, before I got my DVM, they always warned against inadequate dosing of antibiotics, which merely served to kill off the susceptible and allow the less susceptible to survive and so provided selection pressure for resistant bacteria. Evolution in action.

When talking "grain" what do you think grain is?
When I have my "grain" mixed up in n500# lots it contains 300 pounds of cracked corn, 100 pounds of rolled oats, soybean meal, and a few other things liquid molasses, and a vitamin pac. All which also can be fed to horses, In fact it IS a hose feed receipt~!
And now for the last 25 plus years that is what I have been feeding ONLY to my steers, sure they may get some grazing in a 50 by 100 foot pen but sure not in the fall or winter time when covered in snow.
Just eating up 100 3's of that grain mixture" each and every week till they are butchered at 16 months of age, which is the most tender and tasty meat you have ever ate., That "Grain Mixture has plenty of Roughage. No NEED to add any hay for more. And have not for the 30 to 35 years~!
And that Ted r Lean Progran ius a GOOD program also I was on it for a few years feeding my steers and NO HAY was fed either. Geesh BUT the last sentence in your post tells a lot. A Whole Lot. In the you way you think. And is your opinion only

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You need to brush up on facts and leave the myths at the door if you are really a vet.
Grass fed beef is not immune to that form of E-Coli and studies have found equal or greater population in grass fed animals than grain fed.
The myth that acidic rumens cause super growth of that strain was found to be false.

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Exactly! Really get weird when they're full of BP's 'marinating juices'...

Needless to say, shrimpies aren't on the 'barby' very often. If I were allergic to cow meat, I'd jump on salmon, or something else that wouldn't try and kill me.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

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Willow, you're absolutely right. There's just no basis in this. If any "allergy" was that extreme a person would not survive. There are grasses in the air (they're everywhere). Who feeds cows grain that isn't grass based? What in the world could you eat with this type of diet?

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I believe alergies can be stimulated by other means. May not be anything to this. A couple of days before I went into the hospital for orthoscopic (sp?) on both knees friends came by with a large bowl of boiled large Gulf Coast shrimp. When someone else picked me up at the hospital afterwards we stopped at an oriental buffet and I, of course, had more shrimp. Dr. had prescribed a pain medication. Within hours of starting taking it, I broke out in itchy hives. Stopped the medication and it went away. I l-o-v-e shrimp. Grew up on the FL Gulf Coast and you could buy large shrimp three pounds for one buck directly off the shrimp boats at Tarpon Springs. I just had a gut feeling the pain medication triggered an allergic reaction.

I let my self get so dehydrated again that I haven't been able to even crawl out of bed but I'm back now. sorry for whining.

I haven't read through all the responses yet but will try to answer some of the questions. so far as any off topic posts, I don't care, I need help and I'll by pass any that aren't helpful so don't worry about that.

I'm going to see an allergist, he is the preferred allergist in this area. my sister also has severe grass allergies and just this month went to an allergist in SC (i"m in the indpls area) and her allergist has told her the same thing so I think this is the newest research coming out. that if you are SEVERELY allergic to grass then you need to avoid anything that ever consumed grass.

I've done the skin tests though not all 3 series. they've stopped those since I am having such a severe reaction even to those until I can get myself stronger they don't want to do anymore. said to try again in a couple of weeks.

this is an allergist, been in the field for over 40 years. he told me according to my reactions and the test this is what the newest research from harvard and yale say:

I'm allergic to fungus/yeast according to his tests. I have a fungal/yeast infection and the newest research says this is what my body reacts to. I don't understand exactly why though he said fungus release toxins and maybe its the toxins that cause it but my body is reacting to this fungus the same as someone who is severely allergic to bee stings. my throats swells almost closed and I have come close to anaphylactic shock several times.

it first happened with my antihistamine, then my asthma medication, then after I dropped all of that even a simple tylenol or vitamin would react like that and then it started on food. thats when I got scared enough to stop eating because he told me even if a food doesn't cause a reaction today ALL foods will eventually though he couldn't define eventually. a week of eating it? a month? a day? he said this will keep happening until the fungal infection is under control.

then I had a severe reaction to the fungal medication and I'm supposed to try that again in two weeks but only half a pill twice a week.

if youve had no experience with someone with asthma then maybe you don't realize just how ----ed sensitive we are to our environment and drugs. I've had it since I was born. without that, my reactions probably wouldn't be so severe, I wouldn't be so sensitive to drugs, etc. I've always had severe reactions to most drugs and can only take a fraction of the dose normal people do if I can take them at all.

so that gives you the basis for some of this.

so I'm severely allergic to grasses at their highest rating on the tests. they were going to test for more grasses to see if there were some I wasn't allergic to but I need to wait at least two weeks before any more tests because my reaction to the last skin test was so severe.

so allergic to grass so nothing fed grass according to him.
allergic to eggs so nothing that contains it
allergic to yeast so nothing that contains it

to try to get rid of the fungal infection until I get well enough to take the medication he has put me on a severe anti fungal diet which means meats and vegs only. ONCE the fungal infection is controlled then I can slowly add back things to see what doesn't trigger it (since I am allergic to it now this will be a lifelong problem. though they think the steroid inhalor is probably what sent it spiralling out of control).

there is no test they said for fungus and so how in the world in the future will I know it is getting out of control until I have the first reaction and almost suffocate. enough whining, but I'll admit I am flat out scared.

because of the severe reactions I am having to the simplest things right now any medication or treatment is out of the question so no shots no nothing, no alternative treatments until this is under control and I am stronger. I'm still losing a pound a day and though I could stand to lose at least that much more they couldn't or wouldn't tell me how long I can go on without heart and organ damage.

I haven't found a source of organic fish yet. I went back to see my regular dr when the allergis told me there was nothing more they could do until I got stronger and talked to her. she flat out told me she didn't know how I was going to do this with reactions to medications and so little food I can eat. great, not very encouraging. she said if I can't find organic then I have to at least try whatever not grass fed food I can find and take the risk because the options are worse. I guess I'm not bad enough to try putting me in the hospital to treat this. I don't know at what point they will consider that.

on a severe anti fungal diet you eat no sugars, not even natural sugar in fruit and no grains because they immediately turn into sugar. fungus has to have sugar, it can't feed on anything else including fat. so this tries to starve it out.

hope that gives you enough information. I do really appreciate the suggestions, even the ones that aren't exactly helpful it may lead to someone else suggesting something that is.

I first had the allergy skin tests 25 years ago. I have always been severely allergic to grasses but never as severe as the last 3 years which is when I started the steroid inhalor. I was not allergic to yeast or eggs (or molds) at that time.

this is based on new research in the last few months from harvard and yale. I believe they think when you are SEVERELY allergic to grass (and I can't emphasize that word enough) that it is the proteins from the grass in the animal or milk products. nothing to do with the pollen. again this is very very recent research.

the milk doesn't matter, with the yeast allergy I can no longer have cheese. right now no grains so no rice milk but that doesn't bother me. I don't need milk to live. but I need some source of protein. I'm not supposed to eat the beans on this severe diet because of the sugar content but I may have to. I'm not left with a lot of options and none appear safe.

Mel,

I'm so sorry to hear about your condition, I've spent the last 10 minutes on Google trying to find an old news story. It was about a little girl (5-7) who basically was allergic to ALL food, she had to live off what was described as an ultra-hypoallergenic formula. The article didn't describe what the base of the formula was, but perhaps you could ask your doctors about it?

I know, living off of what basically amounts to baby formula would really suck, but if it's an option, if they even know what I'm talking about, over the short term it might help. It was all the little girl ate and she looked normal and healthy.

I'm really sorry, I wish I could find the article, but I read it years ago, it's just stuck with me all this time.

Still they have to feed really, really allergic babies something right (if Mom can't breastfeed)? Just trying to offer up perhaps new and novel suggestions/approaches...

Well, yes, but you shouldn't be allergic to everything... My relative with the yeast/fungus infection eats mostly yogurt when on her diet. The lactose (milk sugar) will be converted to lactic acid IF the milk is cultured for 24 hours, anything less is not adequate.

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