to get the best tasting tomatoes - don't water them!

Paquebot · #81 12/11/10, 03:52 PM

Furthermore, if one has soil conditions which are so heavy that they won't drain, the next best option is to install a drainage system to correct or prevent that. That's sadly becoming a lost practice due to the initial costs. Non-draining soil isn't going to become a well-drained soil merely by working in a little compost into the first few inches. It's not going to drain any better at 6" than at 3'. When faced with seemingly impossible conditions, either change the ZIP Code or change the garden. Usually changing the garden is more affordable than the other option. If neither option is doable, plant grass!

Martin

bywaterdog · #82 12/11/10, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

If something doesn't basic apply to your area, then you modify it. Digging a hole and changing the soil does indeed work anywhere in the world. Something also may apply 4 out of 5 years, just as you say about the 5" rain which may or may not come. You can't say that something WILL happen when it MAY or MAY NOT happen. Besides, I believe that my original advice on that was for a replier from Georgia but feel free to correct me if wrong.

Also, you and the other Texan here seem to imply at times that whatever conditions you have is totally unique. One refuses to accept any advice which is pinpointed virtually to its backyard. Can't get any closer without knowing the address! Every single bit of my advice given on this thread DOES apply to someone reading this thread. If you think that your part of Texas is so alien to growing tomatoes, it might be best to not try to dissuade others in your state from benefiting from your failures. There are many gardeners in the DFW area who have taken the time to do more than just poke a plant in the ground and expect it to fill a kitchen with food. They learn how to do it from others. Their growing conditions are no different than other similar areas worldwide. If gardens can exist in the deserts and in space labs, they can exist in Texas.

Martin

I live a bit further South, in a much hotter, more humid, and wetter climatic zone than most here on this thread. For any success in growing tomatoes I need to have them in raised beds to keep from drowning. For this reason and others my garden needs are adjusted for where I live. As Martin so well points out, a good garden can be grown anywhere.
It gets too hot and humid for tomatoes around the 2nd. week of June here so I adjust by growing in the very early Spring/late Fall.

City Avg Annual Precip

New Orleans 64.19

State Average - 60.09 inches, 2nd wettest in US

mary,tx · #83 12/11/10, 05:19 PM

Arrgh. My family has been gardening here for generations. No, I'm not going to concede that you know more about it than me. But, hey, carry on. I've got other things to do.

mnn2501 · #84 12/11/10, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary,tx

Arrgh. My family has been gardening here for generations. No, I'm not going to concede that you know more about it than me. But, hey, carry on. I've got other things to do.

Yup, Some people think they're experts -- others of us actually have experience.

Paquebot · #85 12/11/10, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary,tx

Arrgh. My family has been gardening here for generations. No, I'm not going to concede that you know more about it than me. But, hey, carry on. I've got other things to do.

Right on! But now you know two things which may be added to soils in the DFW area to conserve water. (Also works in that other state, Houston.) Those are lava sand and Christmas tree mulch. Water retention has been the theme of this thread from the very start. Some have obviously shown their displeasure with anything other than what they use but they won't say what it is that they use. By that, we can only conclude that they don't have a system. Especially when one of the most highly recognized authority in their city is refuted while contributing no advice of their own. There's a name for that type but it escapes me at the moment.

Martin

mnn2501 · #86 12/11/10, 05:54 PM

I hear if you plant a Wisconsin garden expert up to his neck in soil you don't need to apply any other fertilizer for years.

Nobody said we don't grow tomatoes.
Nobody said we don't amend the soil.

The only thing said was that if you didn't water tomatoes in Texas you wouldn't have any.

Paquebot · #87 12/11/10, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnn2501

I hear if you plant a Wisconsin garden expert up to his neck in soil you don't need to apply any other fertilizer for years.

Nobody said we don't grow tomatoes.
Nobody said we don't amend the soil.

The only thing said was that if you didn't water tomatoes in Texas you wouldn't have any.

Yep, and the only way to use less water is to add something to the soil which retains water. That should not be so difficult to understand in the face of all of the evidence presented.

Now if Paul wants to start a thread about how different fertilizers affect the taste of tomatoes, I'll be most pleased to enter such a discussion as well.

Martin

mnn2501 · #88 12/11/10, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

Yep, and the only way to use less water is to add something to the soil which retains water. That should not be so difficult to understand in the face of all of the evidence presented.

I'll repeat it for you:

The only thing said was that if you didn't water tomatoes in Texas you wouldn't have any.

jwal10 · #89 12/11/10, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

I'll be most pleased to enter such a discussion as well.

Martin

Entering a discussion is one thing. Thinking your way is the only way and belittling others because of the way they do it is something different. The thread here was" to get best tasting tomatoes, don't water them" No tomatoes no taste. It works for you, OK, we are not telling you how to grow your's. But don't tell us we are doing it wrong. I didn't hear anyone complaining about the taste of their tomatoes....James

Paquebot · #90 12/11/10, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

If one must keep watering, the problem is one of two things. Either the soil is very shallow or one which drains too well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnn2501

I'll repeat it for you:

The only thing said was that if you didn't water tomatoes in Texas you wouldn't have any.

The above quote was the one which you originally too offense at and it is still true. If one must keep watering, water retention is the issue. If the soil is not retaining the water, it's being lost.

Martin

jwal10 · #91 12/11/10, 06:33 PM

There are trade offs. We would look for another way "IF" our way didn't work. We have water, we use it. You like your way, OK. We like the results of our way. I have had full sized tomatoes grown both ways side by side. No water.... small thick skinned mealy tomatoes. Water.... Big thin skinned luscous juicy tomatoes. The sweet 100's take a lot less water, as many pounds of fruit, with less water. And less blossom drop. If I plant a plant, I don't let it die, I want and need the best crop I can get. I don't have a lot of room or energy to waste. If my tomato plant wilts it is telling me something. My tomato crop is not an experiment, it is my life. If I come home from work at 5:00 the weather forecast says more of the same, 100 degree heat and it is wilted it gets water....James

Paquebot · #92 12/11/10, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwal10

Entering a discussion is one thing. Thinking your way is the only way and belittling others because of the way they do it is something different. The thread here was" to get best tasting tomatoes, don't water them" No tomatoes no taste. It works for you, OK, we are not telling you how to grow your's. But don't tell us we are doing it wrong. I didn't hear anyone complaining about the taste of their tomatoes....James

I haven't told anyone that they are doing anything wrong but rather trying to advise how they may obtain the same or similar results to what were presented in the videos. The subject was taste of tomatoes obtained by less or no watering. Some responses were that it could not be done and some were that it was possible. If one's particular tiny little patch of ground is suitable for growing that way, no problem. 50' feet away may be entirely different conditions. That condition exists everywhere with seldom being an instance of any two gardens being identical. And each condition has a cure.

There are established gardeners reading this forum who want to improve their tomato harvests. There are new gardeners reading his forum who want to just get started. My comments were directed to both. Anyone not within those two parameters should either contribute constructive advice or sit back and do nothing. From the moment I appeared on this thread, my only goal has been to give advice which would be helpful to both the established and new gardener. I have never strayed from that from the first gardening advice I gave on the old forum. If anyone has trouble with that, plant grass!

Martin

jwal10 · #93 12/11/10, 06:45 PM

I will grow a garden, Thanks....James

Paquebot · #94 12/11/10, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwal10

I will grow a garden, Thanks....James

And should you or anyone else on this thread have a gardening question in the future, and it is within the realm of my knowledge, I will endeavor to answer it to the best of my ability. From the onset of HT, there has only been one gardener whom I publicly informed the board that I would never again reply to her threads. She is no longer an HT member.

Martin

mnn2501 · #95 12/11/10, 06:53 PM

So much natural fertilizer in this thread too bad we can't package it.

<<Shaking head and exiting this thread>>

Paquebot · #96 12/11/10, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnn2501

So much natural fertilizer in this thread too bad we can't package it.

<<Shaking head and exiting this thread>>

FarmboyBill · #97 12/11/10, 07:24 PM

I planted 30 plants grown from seed. 10 different breeds of tomatoes. Didnt water them. Didnt have any maters till REAL late in the season. By what I did get. Id have to plant a hundred to get enough to can with if I didnt water them.

Dead Rabbit · #98 12/11/10, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

I planted 30 plants grown from seed. 10 different breeds of tomatoes. Didnt water them. Didnt have any maters till REAL late in the season. By what I did get. Id have to plant a hundred to get enough to can with if I didnt water them.

that right there is my main concern. IF the plant lives, and it will if mulch heavy enuff and that miserable hot dry wind doesnt blow like it did last yr. what will be the outcome?

even with me watering enuff to keep them alive they produced....some...but little in comparison to late in the season when we did get a lot of rain. after that rain and even past the first of light frosts,,,they really put out.

NickieL · #99 12/11/10, 07:51 PM

It depends on where one lives, I think. I can count on one hand the times I've had to use water in my garden, even when it seemed really really dry.

Even when I planted my fruit trees, I never watered them. With the mulch, it stayed wet enough and they do just fine getting established. I get wonderful yeilds in my small garden.

ryanthomas · #**100** 12/11/10, 09:40 PM

I think some people take Paul's thread titles too literally. I don't know him, but I've read enough of his posts and articles to know that he uses rhetorical devices to grab readers' attention, as any good writer should. Did he or anyone here say you should NEVER water tomatoes? Of course not. He gave you an example of a way you may be able to use LESS water, and in some places no water to grow better tasting tomatoes. Martin's suggestions seem to be in line with that also. Take any advice with a grain of salt. Simple enough.