to get the best tasting tomatoes - don't water them!

The videos have one thing in common and that is moisture retention. How that can be accomplished is well known and remains only to be done. If it's the same annual battle of pouring gallons of water on the plants then not enough has been done to prevent it.

High temperatures may be a factor but they also should not be used as an excuse for not obtaining tomatoes. Dallas was cited as an example where tomatoes are difficult to grow due to high temperature. Houston has 9 months with higher daily averages than Dallas. I have a friend in Pasadena, TX whose last SSE Yearbook offer totalled 380 varieties.

Martin

Comparing Dallas and Houston shows you know little about Texas growing conditions - have you ever even been to Texas? Do you know the effects of humidity of growing veggies, ever compare humidity levels of Houston and Dallas?
And I grow plenty of Tomatoes - the way they grow best in MY area.

Come on people, you may be an expert on gardening where you are but you're not an expert on gardening everywhere, what works good in one area doesn't necessarily work well, or even at all, in other area, -- which is the point I have been making since page one.

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I think the biggest problem we had last year was wind. A sustained hot wind all day will do damage to the garden, and I don't see a shadecloth standing up to it. In fact, the wind blew my little Rubbermaid garden shed I was so proud of into pieces all over the field. It still is stacked in pieces.

I'm thinking the best thing I could do for mine would be to put up wind breaks.

Someone mentioned cherry tomatoes doing well without much care, and I will vouch for that. I have had them to come up volunteer in the garden and produce more tomatoes than I could pick with little to no care at all.

Bigger tomatoes, though, are a different animal.

As to digging holes and putting in amended soil, that is not a good idea if you are in an area of heavy clay. It produces a bowl effect that will drown roots.

I indeed have been to Texas, both DFW and Houston. As a matter of fact, my first wife still resides in Weatherford.

Thus far, the only advice which you have given is to water. You appear to think that any advice given by others is only for their own area and you raise your hackles since it is not your way. Thanks to the Internet, gardeners in every state are aware of what is required to grow tomatoes in every other state. If advice doesn't apply to one, then don't claim that it's wrong when it works in another state. How to garden in every part of Texas is well-documented and someone anywhere in the country, or the world for that matter, can give qualified advice. I did so for the benefit of others who have similar problems. And we have been shown evidence by others that it works. If you have a better system, be so helpful as to reveal it so that other forum members may benefit by it.

Martin

Here is a hugelkultur bed being built big enough so that any garden plant won't need irrigation through a summer with zero rain. Including big tomatoes.

http://www.youtube.com/paulwheaton12#p/u/19/sp_IObIkInQ

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[raising chickens] [diatomaceous earth] [permaculture] [rocket mass heater] [lawn care]

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Funny you should mention this. I've lived in this same neighborhood for almost 40 years and only within the past few have we experienced sustained winds during the summer. It's horrifying how quickly those hot blast furnace winds can dessicate a plant! I think that's another reason our protected-on-four-sides garden did so well... it got it's share of wind but the worst of it blew right over.

A theme I see in this thread is that one needs to adapt to the growing conditions unique to one's area. What works in one area may not work in another, not because of hesitation on the gardener's part, but because of soil and climate differences. That's not to say techniques successful in some areas aren't useful in others, just that they may need to be adapted to local conditions.

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Ever tried? Ever failed? No Matter, try again, fail again. Fail better.

- Samuel Beckett

Thus far, the only advice which you have given is to water. You appear to think that any advice given by others is only for their own area and you raise your hackles since it is not your way. Thanks to the Internet, gardeners in every state are aware of what is required to grow tomatoes in every other state. If advice doesn't apply to one, then don't claim that it's wrong when it works in another state. How to garden in every part of Texas is well-documented and someone anywhere in the country, or the world for that matter, can give qualified advice. I did so for the benefit of others who have similar problems. And we have been shown evidence by others that it works. If you have a better system, be so helpful as to reveal it so that other forum members may benefit by it.

Martin[/QUOTE]

We were not giving advice, we were saying what works here for us. You were telling us how to raise tomatoes. We never said you were wrong about your area. We told you we water....James

BUT, the roots will only drown if too much water is poured into the holes. If there is a seasonal lack of rainfall, as in dry areas in the SW, that's not going to happen unless the gardener is the one who supplies the water. Creating a medium which remains damp is all that is required. It's basically the same as growing in a container except that it's below ground rather on top.

And, do have to agree that a tomato grown with less water has more intense flavor than one which is full of water. Cherry tomatoes happen to be a good example as many are prone to split if given too much water. Non-splitters are invariably better tasting than splitters.

Martin

And I gave advice as to what those in Arizona, Georgia, and Texas can use to improve their soil and avoid the use of water, especially where it may be rationed or expensive. The result is that it appears that some take offence at what is a well-known fact. I even mentioned a particular forum which is especially for Texans. If the Texans themselves do not wish to take the advice which originated from other Texans, then it is apparent that they are not interested in bettering their harvest but to merely lament the fact that they have to live in Texas!

I will repeat. Lava sand is the recommended water-retention soil amendment for much of Texas which includes DFW. Christmas tree mulch is another means of organic water-retaining material recommended for not only Texas but the entire country. And shade cloth is the recommended means of dealing with the temperatures. Nobody in Texas should find fault in those 3 things which, as I recall, are the only suggestions which I have presented for gardeners in that area.

Martin

A slight thread drift, pardon me....

Martin, a question about wood chip type soil amendments; don't they have to be composted first? We have a very good source of wood chips from landscapers, but I don't have the room to compost THAT much. My composting techniques are coarse and probably totally wrong; I just dump everything in the garden during the fallow time and stir it up occasionally, also sprinkle down a bit. I'm only composting stuff like grass clippings, lawn litter, kitchen scraps plus plenty of rabbit manure and it breaks down nicely by spring. I'd love to take advantage of the wood chips but can't figure out how to; I've heard that they take longer to decompose than stuff like grass and leaves.

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Ever tried? Ever failed? No Matter, try again, fail again. Fail better.

- Samuel Beckett

Christmas tree mulch would not have to be composted. Wood chips, per se, either would or would not depending upon how they are used. To weigh the benefits, check out these two sites:

http://tomclothier.hort.net/page24.html

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/2702/

And for those interested in Texas gardening, become familiar with Howard Garrett, the Dirt Doctor, who operates out of Dallas. One of the forum moderators, as a matter of fact, was an early HT member.

www.dirtdoctor.com

Martin

fascinating..i too have believed the danger of pine needles.

Yes, there are many gardening myths that have been perpetuated by writers who have never stepped foot in a garden before. Thanks to the Internet, and those who are willing to look at something from all angles, they are slowly being proven to be just that, a myth.

For anyone in the DFW area who will be looking for potential free Christmas tree mulch, check out the various recycle programs of the various communities.

http://www.green-living.com/recyclin...nbyregion.aspx

Martin

All Hail Paquebot: Gardening expert for all of America!

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I've been following this thread with a great deal of interest. I am a city
dweller that has been trying desperately to get some backyard tomatoes
to supplement our diet.
I have had very modest success with my so called container garden.
Big Black pots in my backyard, with tomato plants planted.

So this last spring I attended a seminar at our local gardening center.
They pointed out that I needed the proper soil, or I would be churning my
proverbial wheels. I needed container soil. It was the right mix of peat, compost, etc.

I bit the bullet and planted 8 tomato plants in the proper soil mixture and I planted them in my new "earth buckets."

Needless to say: I had the best tomato crop this summer than I have ever had. The earth buckets are easy to make, so much so that I will double
last years efforts and make at least 8 more.

Hint: 5 gallon buckets are usually easy to come by. Often times free.
Check your local Dunkin Donuts franchise. They usually throw them out.
I have one of the employees save them for me. They can be had for a very nominal amount $$$$.

These buckets are the answer, as they allow you to be gone for periods of time, and not be held captive to your container garden, due to watering.

Enjoy!!!

seems to me one of the two mags. COUNTRYSIDE or MOTHEREARTH had an article in it about buring logs in your garden. they help tremendously after the first yr. even with moisture. course mulching has similar effects and helps quite a bit with watering. i didnt mulch this yr till half way through the grwoing season. after the rains stopped. i was able to cut back watering quite a bit.

this yr the whole garden gets mulched.

i can get loadss of wood chips for free. ive often wondered about using them but thought they would decompose fast enuff and tilling would be a problem. now im wondering about trying this

Maybe you don't know as much about other areas as you think. In Texas, we like to say that we don't have seasons, we have "spells," hot spells, cold spells, wet spells, dry spells. It's well documented in this area that if you dig a hole and plant something with amended soil in that hole, it will eventually drown when you get a five inch rain, which may or may not come in any season of the year. And no, it will not just drain out like in a planter.

Indeed. It does no good to either the plant or the gardener is the water is merely dumped into the top and runs out the bottom. Almost all of my cherry tomato varieties are grown in containers and most of those now are from 7 to 10 gallon tree nursery pots. Their soil medium is the only one in which peat is used but only about 10%. The other 90% is composed of garden soil plus coarse unfinished compost. Between the peat and the wood in the compost, water retention is quite good.

Once wood becomes wet, it retains that moisture for some time. The effectiveness of it in dry climates has been documented many, many times. In the community gardens which I oversee, we must use wood chips in the aisles. Each fall they are plowed under and starts anew next spring. The soil in the original 1999 section becomes better every year while the 2006 addition is still struggling with the clay and silt base. In another 5 years, it will be much improved.

I might add that the chipper that the city now uses is one which shreds everything to where it would probably pass through a 1" screen. It has to be that small to be of any use in the county composting facility. When it is that small, it only lasts a short time underground.

Martin

If something doesn't basic apply to your area, then you modify it. Digging a hole and changing the soil does indeed work anywhere in the world. Something also may apply 4 out of 5 years, just as you say about the 5" rain which may or may not come. You can't say that something WILL happen when it MAY or MAY NOT happen. Besides, I believe that my original advice on that was for a replier from Georgia but feel free to correct me if wrong.

Also, you and the other Texan here seem to imply at times that whatever conditions you have is totally unique. One refuses to accept any advice which is pinpointed virtually to its backyard. Can't get any closer without knowing the address! Every single bit of my advice given on this thread DOES apply to someone reading this thread. If you think that your part of Texas is so alien to growing tomatoes, it might be best to not try to dissuade others in your state from benefiting from your failures. There are many gardeners in the DFW area who have taken the time to do more than just poke a plant in the ground and expect it to fill a kitchen with food. They learn how to do it from others. Their growing conditions are no different than other similar areas worldwide. If gardens can exist in the deserts and in space labs, they can exist in Texas.

Martin