Animal Abuse ???

Just rereading this post, when I saw your post. I definitely can relate to being resentful of somebody who shows up and tries to change the way you do things, or somebody who has his nose in your business. Well I guess it depends on what we are talking about. Moved into this house many years ago with an elderly neighbor. He would come over most everyday to tell me I had no clue. Well, with an open mind, I learned so much from this person, about everything, animals, gardens, etc. So glad that I listened,and he was in my life.

Sounds like a good guy. Funny I have an old timer here who kind of seems that way. After I moved in I had been going in and out getting stuff, moving stuff and etc. Well I had seen him many times on my way out and I always waved but didn't stop to chat. Well, he stood in the road the other day and waved me down, then scolded me for not stopping to say hello!

He went on telling me who was who and what was what for about half an hour. I got a lot of good info from him, and he told me if I ever need anything just give him a call. I don't care what anybody says, not all people feel threatened and resentful towards new people.

Another point about animals abuse and what counts:

Here, you are not allowed to shoot your pet. (not that I advocate shooting pets, but in certain circumstances it may be neccesary) For example: My co-worker is from the old school, and was recently telling me how he came across a crowd on the road, where a cat had been hit by a car and it's back and back legs were broken. The animal was obvoiusly in pain, so he offered to take it into the bush and put it out of it's misery. From the looks he said he got, it was as if they would have taken him into the bush, no one would ever dream of doing such a cruel thing! So the animal lay there in the road for 1/2 hour until the animal van came by and euthanized it. It suffered for a good while, and cost us time and resources to put it out the "humane" way, yet to quickly and cheaply put it out of misery would have been seen as abuse, and he probably would have been charged and fined had he gone ahead and done it.

I guess the definition of abuse is different for each person.

I can only agree with "Redneck Pete".
As far as child abuse, it don't
even compare. If you think so,
God I hope someone takes your
children before its too late.

This could easily have been ignorance - at first. But when animals go downhill and especially when they start dying off under your watch, if you carry on with the exact same management, that is abuse.

It's a shame nobody took action. The other side of the coin from ignorant do gooders crying wolf. Apparently everyone in the area just watched these animals suffer and go downhill until they died? I'm sure they felt just sick about it, but if they had DONE anything it might well have been stopped.

Where on earth are you not allowed to shoot your pet? Like you mean in town? Certainly not all of Canada because I just got my neighbor to shoot my horse for me and I am the local dog catcher. I was told I am legally allowed to shoot dogs. Although I haven't. Putting an animal down with a gun is a perfectly acceptable way to euthanize an animal. The Saskatchewan SPCA says right out that a single bullet to the head is EXACTLY the same thing as having a vet out to do it.

I had a friend who lived in a VERY residential area of Cali that allowed horses. A very old horse went down and was clearly dying. People were willing to shoot it, but it wasn't allowed because it was too close to other houses. They horse lay there for SIX hours until a vet clinic that did house calls opened up. A few emergency clinics that were open wanted her to bring the horse in. Well how exactly do you load a downed horse?

Its funny, I have hunted all my life but I would hate to have to shoot a dog. Its all conditioning.

Alright I have to admit this....

I DID call the SPCA on someone. They were posting pictures of their horses on facebook for all to see. SHe bought an acreage with her fiance. Both were around 22 years old. Then she ran out and bought a bunch of horses to fill the acreage with. Well the horses were getting thinner, and thinner and thinner. People started saying something about it, offering suggestions, asking what the vet said, etc. Girl was well educated in horsemanship. i know she was (I used to board with her). She said that the horses were thin because she was sold bad hay for a high price. She only figured in about 20lbs of hay per horse per day (sorry, but nursing mares need WAY more than that). So when she got bad hay, she didn't bother to up the amount they were getting. She also had about 5 horses in one pen. She would throw 100lbs over the fence a day and call that good enough. Well of course one horse got fat, the rest were starving.

So this girl has money. I know she does. Instead of going out and BUYING more hay, she tries to make due with what she has even though she knows its not good enough. She also KNOWS the horses are starving and basically doesn't care. She said they came like that. No they didn't. She posted pictures of them when she got them and they were in way way better shape.

The part that was SO shocking to me is that she didn't seem to get it. She would post a picture of her cute little new foal....standing beside a mother that looked like a skeleton! Oh look at my cute foal! When people would ask her WHAT ON EARTH was wrong with her mare she would just brush it off on bad hay and the fact that they came like that.

She posted pictures almost daily of the new foals....and i couldn't sit back and watch the mares starve to death. It was really really bad.

Took SPCA a bit to get out there, but when they did they DID give her a warning and said things had to shape up ASAP or they would take further action. Oh and she magically was able to afford a bunch more high quality hay after that.

SURE anybody can post a good story. But the Bad that ASPSC does and HSUS out weighs the good by a huge margin.

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I'm afraid I have to agree with your assessment. I do think it has a great deal to do with the people involved. Where I lived in Montana, we did have a very responsible Humane Society group, but for the most part they were all ranch people or people who had grown up on ranches, even the local vets and they were not extremists in any way. They had no "agenda" other than preventing actual abuse.

A good friend of mine, who grew up on a ranch but was living in a city and involved in show dogs has some real horror stories about the city ASPSC, HSUS, PETA and any number of other groups. If the people involved do not have a practical knowledge of animal care, just the AR-mindset and brainwashing, you have a problem looking for a place to happen.

Unfortunantly there are states here in the USA that you can't shoot, a cat even a feral one, or a dog because it is animal cruelty.

I disagree because every animal saved is a life saved. And yes ignorant people call them and yes some of them are over zealous and all that but sadly we need people who can save abused animals so better a flawed system than none at all.

To the OP when I see an animal that I am concerned about I keep an eye on it for awhile. If it seems to be going downhill I will ask the owner if it needs help. I have donated hay and feed before to people who were hard up. It happens especially in our current economy. The vast majority of the time though the animal gets better. Skinniness can come from so many reasons that have nothing to do with abuse. I have had several neighbors out here who have had miserable horses dropped in their pastures. Had somebody take in a cow too. People just drop cats and dogs off on us.

Anyways to me it's always best to avoid bringing someone from the outside in unless you are absolutely sure there is a problem and you have offered to help yourself. People just get overwhelmed sometimes!

I guess this whole debate comes down to whether you value the life/wellbeing of the livestock over the rights, privacy, and sovereignty of the American property owner. And vice-versa.

Certainly there are horrible cases of abuse of livestock, as are there cases of abuse of property owner's rights by prying government agents who are empowered to suspend your rights and seize property with little or no evidence.

Which is worse? IDK.

Animal life is not sacred (to me). I am not a proponent of animal abuse, but if someone goes to the trouble and expense of acquiring an animal, I feel that it is their prerogative to do with it as they wish.

Likewise, it doesn't bother me to see an overgrown, unkempt garden. Them poor tomatoes.......

However, human life is sacred. If I see child abuse, I will get in your face. And, I'm not talking about discipline. There is a distinct difference between abuse and discipline.

Re: the above referenced blog, from the PA newspapers, the other half of the story:

"The Bassett hound kennel owner in Philadelphia who was the subject of a Pennsylvania SPCA raid last year has been ordered to allow three more months of unannounced inspections.

Under a consent order issued earlier this month, Wendy Willard has agreed to monthly inspections at her Roxborough kennel by the PSPCA through September. In addition she may only keep no more than 12 dogs (the limit under Philadelphia's ordinances), five of which must be spayed or neutered, and she must show proof of veterinary care.

However, it states if Willard receives a state kennel license she may keep up to 23 dogs. (Murder Hollow was listed on the state kennel database with a pending license request several months ago but that listing has since disappeared.)

The court also ordered Willard to install proper drainage, repair and maintain the interior ceiling and remove feces from the barn and runs daily. In return, animal cruelty charges against Willard will be dropped pending successful completion of the inspections.

Willard, whose case generated widespread support among sporting dog and animal owners' rights groups, also was ordered to contact her supporters and "request' that they not engage in threats against humane officers. PSPCA officers reported receiving Internet death threats following the raid.

During one visit by humane agents and state dog wardens to the property, Willard was accused of throwing stones at vehicles driven by PSPCA and dog officers.

This consent order appears to be an extension of an agreement reached by Willard and the PSPCA in January in which she had six months to clean up her property, take better care of her dogs and allow inspections. Neither the PSPCA nor the district attorney's office would comment on the case.

In July 2009, the PSPCA raided Willard's property and filed 22 citations against her for failing to adequately care for 23 dogs on her property, 11 more than allowed under city ordinances. Eleven dogs were removed, most suffering from tick and parasite infestation. (Ten of the dogs were placed with rescue groups and, according to an Internet discussion group of Williard supporters, one died while being spayed at the PSPCA.)"





Doesn't sound like she won to me. Sure doesn't sound like an innocent victim to me, either, but then, unless you were there, you and I have no idea of just how bad it was.

Someone on a blog like the one you linked to means nothing, heck, there are ones out there that are in support of nice people like Charles Manson, the 9/11 terrorists, the Unabomber, etc.. Those sites are based on "facts" too and will tell you how persecuted they are/were. Sorry, but I place very little faith in blogs that have an axe to grind, no matter what the source.

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Supply and demand - Not just a good idea, its the law.

That story sounds like an urban legend to me. A friend of a friend of a friend of a friend said that ........... <insert story here that supports your agenda here>. Any time I hear unverifiable outrageous claims made about something, I don't just believe it because someone told me that they heard about it somewhere. If it really interests me, I will research it, but otherwise, I just ignore it.

Check out http://snopes.com for some real doozies that are generally accepted as being true.

Here is a funny urban legend about "baby carrots" that lots of people believe: http://www.snopes.com/food/tainted/carrots.asp

__________________
Supply and demand - Not just a good idea, its the law.

amen!

__________________
Supply and demand - Not just a good idea, its the law.

I don't believe something "someone told me that they heard from someone" either. Lots of urban legends but that isn't the case here. I do know the owner personally (via Internet/phone) and the basic 'facts' through several other people I have had contact with by email and phone over the years.

The sportpony and 'colored' sportpony/sporthorse breeding group is fairly small and and with the Internet a lot of us know each other though all of us have not met personally. People who have been here at my farm to see my ponies know someone else who has actually been to the owner's farm and seen her horses, also know someone who has bred to her stallion, etc. Several people I know were also at the WEG games when she was notified of the situation and there was a copy of a local news paper article on the thread (now closed) I mentioned on an equine site that said horses were picked up at "xxxxxx" location.

Several of us in the sportpony "community" have been following the situation so in this case, not "someone told someone who heard it somewhere". For the owner's sake I wish you were right.