Animal Abuse ???

I'm new here.... so I probably need to keep my opinions to myself... but I never was very good at that, sooooo.........

About dogs...... I'm not too keen on dogs on a leash. A nice fenced in area is better. I wouldn't like a chain around my neck 24/7. And I certainly don't condone dogs in crates either. I have 2 indoor dogs. My backyard is totally fenced in AND I have a "doggie door". Heck, I even created a "handicap ramp" out the doggie door for the little old lady. She has arthritis and her little legs are only 4" tall. That back step was impossible for her. Not anymore!!!

How's that for a solution?

this abuse issue is a sore point with me. When I lived in the north I saw that animals on farms were treated as farm animals simple right! Now I am on the southern coast and I see the spca being called on people because they don't baby their animals. Everyone has different ideas on what abuse is, there is such a large gray area! In the old days abuse was simple...if the animal was being beat or starved...now you can lose your animals because you are not pampering your livestock which is absolutely ridiculous! I looked at the other post regarding those cows and it is a perfect example people view abuse differently. This is how society has changed...everyone thinks they know best and many people are falsely accused and it can ruin lives, eventually no one will want to farm and then where will we all be???

Had an old horse who looked old and some busy body called animal control on me. They cam out and checked things out and told me I needed to have a vet check the horse (I already knew that) and do this and that. I looked a the lady and asked her if there was any law which forbid me from shooting my own animals. She was totally stunned when I told her it'd be cheaper for me to shoot him than do all the things she wanted me to do for a horse as old as he was. After that she started telling me maybe I didn't really need to do this or that.

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Remember, when seconds count. . .
the police are just MINUTES away!

Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. . .Davy Crockett

Don't forget also that many of the animal control officers are not familiar with farm animals or normal farm practices. They have a "pet" mentality. This means that they are more likely to misinterpret what they see.

Mary

OK..don't hang me yet. If you see an actual animal abuse situation it is our obligation to look into it. I'm not for poking your nose in anothers business..cheez...take it easy guys. But often times an animal could be saved from harm if only we would make an inquiry to the owner. Am I safe now..???

Too many times these HSUS or SPCA type organizations are people with little training or none at all. They are being allowed to do law enforcement duties entering private property and taking peoples animals away because they personally don't agree with how an animal is being treated. Too much room for these groups to push their own agenda. No way would I call one of these groups to rat some one out.

Agreeing with everyone else (except OP). I got mad last year when I saw on the evening news the local SPCA confiscating someone's mare because it was a little thin. The foal was right there in the video. I'm thinking it's not easy to keep an animal fat when it is nursing a big baby. They also took chickens, which they said were abused because they had lost some feathers. Hello? Has anyone heard of molting?

I was talking to, for lack of a better term, a "crazy goat lady" who ran her own rescue organization out here in the middle of nowhere. She pointed out a nice milker that she and another cohort and rescued from someone, and told me of someone else they planned on doing a rescue from soon, who had some real nice animals. She was obviously upgrading her herd through kindness and compassion for the animals. Yeah right. She was legally stealing.

If you see someone beating an animal with a pipe, that's abuse, call the authorities. That is a far cry from your opinion that an animal is thin, especially if you don't know the reason why.

Abuse like almost everything is relative to where you live and the definition of Abuse/Cruelty as defined in the local/county/state ordinances. What is considered cruelty in one municipality may not be in another.

While it's fine and dandy for us to banter back and forth about who is thin and who is nursing and so on, there are real cases of extreme abuse out there that seem to be forgotten.

It was just a few months ago that Conklin farms video was all over the place where farmhands were sticking bars through the noses of animals and beating them into the ground, breaking their bones and faces, breaking their legs and just horrifying abuse beyond my wildest nightmare.

When real abuse happens, things need to be looked into. Keep in mind that puppy mills, some of the most horrific places outside of a concentration camp, are often run by the gentle Amish and other farmers as a cash cow and because they have a tendency to be able to ignore the suffering of animals.

Farm animals don't need to be babied but they deserve some dignity and not horrific abuse. Pets are no different.

They are all mammals and have the mammalian basic brain. The basic mammalian brain has all the centers for emotion. So yes, they do have feelings too.

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Christy
Growing Human
http://growinghuman.blogspot.com

When wearing narrow lenses of hate and ignorance, is it any wonder one finds it difficult to see clearly? - Me

What does an abused cow look like?

I don't think that ANY of us want to see an animal truly abused. I've seen animals that have been abused (REALLY abused, not just on short rations for a while) and it's horrible. But, there is WAY too much of the busy-body stuff, destroying a farmer's reputation just because his (or her) standard of care doesn't come up to the standard for a pampered pet. I recall one incident a few years ago where a farmer in Vermont (I think) either lost or was in danger of losing his flock of several hundred sheep because he didn't have water out for them in the winter. They were eating snow, were well fed, and were *in fine condition*, but no, allowances couldn't be made. He had in the past put water out for them, and they chose to eat snow in preference, so he was letting them eat snow.

IMO, you really have to be careful before making any kind of accusation against someone. A false accusation can destroy a person's reputation, their livelihood, their life. And, also IMO, if there are concerns about livestock (rather than pets) then the livestock owner should be judged by a jury of his or her peers, rather than by urban pet owners who know absolutely NOTHING about raising livestock!

Kathleen

I looked at the pictures in question. The cow was in normal condition for the breed that she is. You cannot compare longhorns with beefier breeds. We have several longhorns running with registered balancers. Same feed, same mineral, vet care, etc. but do the longhorns look like the balancers? No. They look like longhorns. It is like putting a greyhound next to a rottweiler and saying that the greyhound is too skinny.. Well, maybe it is skinny when compared to the rottweiler but that does not mean that it is skinny for a greyhound... I think that the person that started the origional post meant well but I do not think that they are familiar with longhorns as a breed..

You kinda have a 'city' attitude on this. I can be totally wrong, but that is the feeling I get....

Ultimately, animals on the farm earn their keep, and are eaten or used to produce milk, ggs, honey, or catch mice as long as they can or do labor for us.

As such we have a responsibilty to provide for them as good or better than nature would.

Those in PETA or HSUS or ALF will use the same terms you do - we shouldn't let harm happen to animals.

Which in their view, means we can't eat them, or use them in any way shape or form. Even just a fence is 'abuse', much less planning to eat them....

Your words are reflecting the city view of animals, oh they are all just cute & we need to care for them & love them..... And your words are reflecting the PETA/HSUS view that all humans are dirt and animals are the superior beings, we should worship them.

Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but that is kinda what a lot of us are reading into it. Your words come from the city, not from the farm, and we've been lied to with those PETA-funded city words before.....

I think all of us support animal welfare, and are abhored by cases of animal abuse.

I'm not sure I'd like _you_ judging me or my neighbors or others on this forum tho, because I don't trust your judgement on that. Your words are just too close to 'animal rights' type of stuff, which just makes my blood boil.

I don't mean to offend you or put words in your mouth!

You just are speaking in a bit of a strange way, that makes it hard to trust you understand the difficulties most of us have with the animal rights crowd.... They are not nice people, and not something you want to bring down upon others.

There is a bigger difference between 'animal welfare' & 'animal rights' than their is between 'Lutherns' and 'Catholics' - does that help you understand? You are using 'animal rights' words to an 'animal welfare' crowd.

I hope and expect your heart is in the right place on all this; it's just your choice of words is a tad scary.

Again, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm trying to explain why your messages make me uneasy..... 'How it seems to me.'

--->Paul

I've seen abused animals and I've seen "animal abuse" complaints made by people who wouldn't know a thin horse from a Phlyxgrkl from the planet Zxenon 7. Usually we got a few complaints every summer on the Amish from city people. They were used to seeing pasture ornaments that hadn't done anything but eat and poop for 10 years. They couldn't comprehend what a working animal looked like. Didn't make it any easier on the Amish guy or the other people involved.

Personally, someone comes on my land without a warrant or exigent circumstances/probable cause (an anonymous report is not probable cause in any court I know of) there's going to be some problems. I'll probably loose, but some things are just wrong.

We had an old horse in similar shape. We could not get weight on him no matter what we did. His teeth were all but gone and he could not eat normal hay. We bought alfalfa cubes and soaked them to soften them up - because the grass was then so short he could eat it. We also soaked beet pulp for him and he got sweet feed also. Even feeding him 3 different kinds of feed he was still very thin. Our mail lady complained to a horse guy she knew and he stopped at the house to "check it out" He saw all we were doing and said he understood. The horse was not droopy or anything and would run and whinny when we went to feed him - he was a sweety. The next fall a lady from the Humane Society stopped by (don't know who contacted her) and when she saw all we were doing she said there was nothing more she would do herself and that we were doing all that was possible. She did recommend we have him put down before winter (this was 2 winters ago) as she said he had no reserves if he got sick. At that point I did feel that way also. We put him down ourselves, which was hard. Don't judge until you know all the facts. I am not saying there is not abuse because there really are some bad situations - just find out the facts yourself before you call the authorities.

Bret4207, here in VA, an annamous report can be made and charges brought against the person complained about. It turns out to be the animal control person making the complaint; when it is actually an annamous person. Some state laws on animal cruelty are ridiculous. VA went from requiring feeding every twelve hours to feed once every day. To me that isn't right. My animals would get fed twice per day if not more.

Cruelty is somewhat defined in the Kansas Animal Cruelty Law K.S.A. 21-4310, K.S.A. 21-4311.

Even though it is somewhat spelled out there is still the area that speaks exceptions and of accepted practices, etc. ----which means it is still somewhat opinion based.
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Pretty well clear cut that you'd better have your own animals under control or be prepared for the consequences if they threaten. Kills my chickens, come get the carcass.

b. 7. (exceptions to the cruelty law) the killing of any animal by any person at any time which may be found outside of the owned or rented property of the owner or custodian of such animal and which is found injuring or posing a threat to any person, farm animal or property;

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My family---bEI

And to me, having grown up on a western ranch, that is impractical and not necessary. For a single family ranch, with anywhere from 100 to 1000 cattle and horses, under winter conditions, to feed twice a day, is not something that can be done.

Horses that were kept up in the barn for some reason, stalled stallions, show horses, in foal mares that were being watched or cows that were in sheds to calve, were fed twice a day, but the normal "herds" are fed once a day.

The first winter I was in Pryor, for example, I had to drive 3 miles to take hay to the two herds of mares. In mid-winter, with 2 feet or more of snow on the ground, I had to load the hay, chain up the 4 wheel drive on all four tires and it took me 3 hours to get up to the mare pasture, feed and get back. And I still had all the horses at the ranch that were in sheds/run outs and the yearlings in the lower pastures to feed ... who got fed twice a day.

I don't know of anyone who feeds their cattle or horses when they are out on winter pasture more than once a day, anywhere in Montana, Wyoming or the Dakotas.