question re: renter and unused propane

I still don't comprehend this.

Better carefully explain, who got billed for what, and who wrote checks to whom?

The tank & propane account is in your name, so any bill for it would come to _you_. You said you ordered it, not him.

Your renter pays for the heat you say, but in what way? How? Do you forward the bill to him & he writes the full check to the propane company. Or do you pay the propane company, and the renter writes a check of the same amount to you? This is terribly unclear.

It can make a difference. In case a scam is going on here, the fella could be writing a bad check to you ot the propane company, and in the end the bill will fall upon you as you are the person listed on the bill. So.... I'd like to understand your complicated arrangement here. Sux if you refund money, and 30 days later the propane company re-bills you because of a bad check.

If thefella paid the whole bill for the tank of propane, and now is leaving, and all checks are good and bill is really paid, then surely you should refund him for the unused propane. As this was a trial period, works both ways, the lease was up in Dec and here we are, goals change and he is exersizing his option.

It should be fairly simple to see from the propane invoice (which you have, or can get because it's in your name) how many gallons they put in the tank to make it how full (often 80%) and what is left in it now from the gauge.

Refund him what wasn't used. That would only be fair. If he did pay for the tankful to begin with, and his payment was good to whomever he made the payment to - which is still not clear to me....

--->Paul

Thanks, Paul, for pointing out my erroneous assumptions. If tenant didn't pay any bills to the propane company, then he owes OP for ALL gas used less any amounts paid to OP. If tenant paid for ALL "fill ups", OP owes him something since the tank is not empty. If something hybrid occurred, then cogitation is in order.

If you want to know how much the tenant used have the tank refilled and refund the original amount he paid minus the amount of the refill. This assumes the price of propane has not drastically changed since it was filled. That is the easiest way and in the future you should fill the tank when it is rented and take a deposit to cover the cost. Make it the tenants responsibility to pay for future propane and have it filled when they leave and return what is left of the deposit. Just like a rental car. Nice to see you want to do the right thing.

Jim

A few years back, my tenant ordered propane. Seemed normal, since he was the one using it. He used it up, didn't pay for it, moved out. Guess who owes for the fuel. The property owner, me.
I needed to keep some heat in there while it sat empty, I called up and ordered 100 gal. They delivered 500 gal. They said I ordered a fill up. I wanted them to take it back. They don't take fuel back, ever.
So, when I rented again, I explained that since there is 40% in the tank when they moved in, they must have that much in it when they leave. They used it up and moved out. Couldn't find them.
So, I drained the water pipes and let the place sit with an empty propane tank. The following year, I got a bill for $100 from the Propane Co., if I'm not using their fuel, I have to pay rent on the tank. I said forget that, come get your tank. Took them a year and twenty phone calls. Finally, I went to the office and looked around the parking lot until someone asked what I was doing. I told them I was looking for the best spot to drop off a tank, I figured I could shove it out the box of my truck. They came out the next day.
Renters and propane tanks are often a troublesome combo.

A couple of you are on the right path but do have flawed thinking.

IF the tank is a 500 gallon water capacity tank the percentage is figured off of that, not what percentage the tank might be filled to.

IF it is a 500 gallon tank the 20% it contained BEFORE the fill would be 100 gallons.

Add to the beginning 100 gallons the additional gallons from the fill ticket in November. Example only, 300 gallons for a total starting gallonage of 400.

When the renter moves out lightly tap the side of the gauge to make sure the needle is free and not stuck at a higher %, and read the percentage left in the tank, i.e. example 60%. Ex 60% of a 500 gallon tank would be 300 gallons.

The difference in the example would be the beginning 400 gallons and the example ending gallons of 300, so the renter USED 100 gallons and that is what he should pay for and credited for any other amount he previously paid for.

Gauges are fairly accurate but still they are an approximation as the dial itself works on a magnetic principal to connect to the float rather than directly.

Charging ONLY for what was used would be the right thing to do.

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My family---bEI

Windy, you forgot to account for the fact that they don't fill the tanks 100% full, only 80% full.

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I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam.

Popeye

When figuring the gallons in the tank or used is based on the W.C. or water capacity of the tank. How much it potentially holds is not a factor when nothing but percentages and the actual gallons is used off of the fill ticket.

BTW, the tank should have a stamped label welded on it or stamped into the metal which will show the W.C. which stand for water capacity.

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My family---bEI

Tell him to get his propane out of your tank.
Be sure to notify the propane company first.

Call the propane company they can come and tell you how much is left in your tank and the cost. You can then reimburse the renter what he has paid, minus what was initially left in the tank.

Same as if you were purchasing a house.

If he paid for the propane then he should get his money back from you. If you don't want to do this, you can ask the propane company to buy back the propane, but it will leave you without heat.

Many things are not clear here. Something caused the renter to give notice. Was it something wrong with the habitat, the relationship with the owner, his circumstances at school or romance, family complications, distance from school, price comparison with other rentals?

Just a few thoughts regarding you the owner. It is wise to qualify tenants prior to signing the lease. However, the 3 month trial period appears to have created a complication for you. Having a background, criminal, and eviction record check costs money, and delays initial move-in a few days, but then a one year lease removes the chance of what just happened to you. Another wise things is to take and date digital photos of every room in the place being rented.

You also did not mention (still an unknown) the condition of the rental before and after occupancy. Now you may have expenses and labor as well as a vacant rental unit in a bad market in the dead of winter. The propane issue is really the simple one to me. The suggestions above are good. Schedule a time with the tenant to inspect the condition of his habitat prior to his departure. Make him a list of your expectations. Study ahead so you know what your losses may be through the cold winter due to the tenant leaving. If you charged him with the propane bill and he paid up front, he does deserve some of his money returned. He may not like it but would have a hard time contesting what you calculate. I am a bit surprised that you had him pay the total up front rather than a monthly $ amount based on approximate usage.

Being an owner is a lot more than just an investment. It is a job. Give yourself a job review. Is it worth it?

I think I have all the info I need. "OurLittleFarm" is right on the mark. Thanks for all the opinions. Interesting (and fun) reading.

I may have this wrong but, the tenant paid you for the propane is that right?

If I'm right, I don't think morally, it makes any difference if the account is in your name or not. It would be the right thing to do to pay him for any unused propane. He paid you for it -

If there was an damage to the property which was not covered by a deposit, you might take that into consideration, but just plain old fashioned honor would dictate he get a refund - if he, in fact, paid you for it.

Have you considered converting to wood?

Seems like that would lower the rent he could charge.

HUH? Id think it would RAISE IT!

Yeah, homesteading type people tend to love wood heat, but renters tend to prefer convenience. If they have to feed a fire to get heat rather than adjust a thermostat, they're probably not going to be willing to pay as much.

I don't think I would want a renter to use wood heat as many are careless and might not handle the fire tending duties properly. Haven't we all read more than once about someone putting ashes into a plastic bucket, a wastebasket, etc to take them outside. The result----the outside comes inside once the house is burned out of the way.

Insurance on a property with wood burning stove and being owner occupied and renter occupied are probably two different things.

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My family---bEI

First post:

"If I had not had the tank filled, he would be pretty cold by now."

And further down:

"I -- I had it filled, in my name; my account. It was down to about 20% when they came to fill it in Nov/late Oct. It was not empty."

Plain and simple....the propane belongs to the landlord and it probably should stay in the tank till he needs to heat the place again. The renter in this case pays for a heated place to live, but he does not own the propane in any way. I also believe that the renter would have a really tough time getting the gas company to come and get the propane that belongs to another person. I once tried to call a utility company because my landlord had neglected to pay the bill and they had called me because they were going to do a shut off.... I went round and round with the person on the phone. Finally had to tell her that I DO NOT want to know ANYTHING about the account, I only wanted to PAY THEM MONEY to keep the account current because I lived there. She then took my credit card number. Sometimes they take that confidentiality BS a little too far.

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Lori

Windy in Kansas, 35 yrs ago I moved out of a beautiful Victorian house with a woodstove,to try some higher education elsewhere. 2 months later, I got a call that it had burnt down, due to ashes in a plastic bucket, as per your comment above. Very sad, to lose useful, adequate and beautiful hundred yr old housing that way. 4 yrs later when I was back visiting, I saw my red tulips blooming in the remaining ashes of the house. It was very disturbing and moving. ldc

What a good post!

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Alice
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"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus