How to Barter Butcher Services
 

Hello Everybody. I'm a newbie to this site. Just joined last week. I am an active poster on a different site. I posted this thread on my other site and would like to include YOUR thoughts, as well.

When I was a little kid, I raised rabbits. I did the feeding and shoveling. Dad handled them, bred them, butchered them. Then my Dad died when I was a little kid... and the rabbits got sold.

All my Uncles/Cousins were farmers, so I spent plenty of time playing at the various family farms. All farms within 5 miles. However.... my Uncles did NOT butcher their own cows and pigs.

My Mother/Step-Dad (retired farmer) used to have chickens, and he didn't butcher his own chickens, either. They got sent to the county butcher place.

I have dabbled in conversations with a few select others about what if's..... what if you had an opportunity to raise your own organic rabbits, chickens, ducks, geese, goats (small livestock, more easy to handle). Keep in mind... that every person I've dangled this idea to, was.... born and raised City Slickers.

They all love the idea about raising their own livestock..... but..... the Butchering Process becomes a MAJOR TURNOFF!!!! There is the obvious blood/guts/gore part.... but there is also the..... "it was our beloved pet" part.

Sooooo....... I'm trying to brainstorm alternative ideas. Say for example.... there was some dude, maybe a deer hunter guy that had no problem with the blood/gut/gore problem, and since he had no "relationship" with the livestock, therefore no happy feelings towards the critters, what would be a decent barter or wage to pay this guy to do the dirty work?

Just as an example.... For every 12 rabbits, he gets to keep 4 rabbits for payment? Is that a fair price?

For every 12 chickens, he gets to keep 4 chickens and how many eggs?

I'm thinking more along Barter prices... and not actual money prices. With the cost of inflation the price today won't compare to the price in 5 yrs.

Some people are OK with the Butchering part, but not the "killing" part. Most people really struggle with this part of "being self-sufficient". Some people are willing to eat your rabbits, but they won't eat their own rabbits.

What are the Alternative Ideas to get around some of these issues?

(*** and as a Fisher-woman... I don't allow no darn cleaning of fish in MY kitchen. YUCK!!!! LOL So what would be an appropriate barter of fish cleaning services?)

Be sure you stay "under the radar" on this. Butchering is a highly regulated business.

I don't know about your area, but where I live.... there are no places to take goats, ducks, geese, or rabbits. They all have to be "self" butchered or whatever.

Are fish, ducks, geese, rabbits, and goats regulated in other parts of USA??? (the butchering, that is)

I don't think the home butchering of anything is all that regulated, other than if you were in urban areas maybe some code restrictions on where.....what IS regulated is the sale of the meat.

For example, I have a couple of neighbor that raise goats and hogs, and run a business of selling the meat they butcher.....they do this under the radar, since all of that is supposed to be USDA inspected, along with approved facilities and handling methods.....none of which they comply with. Some day, I suspect somebody is gonna get a case of the trots from their methods, complain, and the long arm of the law will be all over them, but they've done it for years, and have quite a list of local folks that buy from them.

So, as long as the critters are raised where you butcher, and go in the owner's freezer ( less what they give you for your services ), my guess is you're ok. That is not legal advice, and you would do well to check with your local and state regs.

The biggest problem I see with what you want to do is how little of it there would actually be TO do. You gonna drive 20 miles to butcher a couple geese ? Assuming you COULD charge enough to cover your expenses, and make something for your time, is the owner willing to pay THAT kind of rate for the meat ? I suspect you'd make more working at McDonalds than you will net out of this deal.

Heck, one of the reasons I do home butchering IS the cost of taking it to a slaughter house. I'll have a $1.50/lb in hamburger by the time I pick it up, and more if I want it in patties.

The other reason, of course, is I can control how the meat is cut, make sure I'm eating MY cow,pig,etc ( and ALL of it.... :D ), and so on. You could start a whole nuther thread on slaughter house horror/ripoff stories, I'm sure. I could contribute a dozen myself.

i think it'd be risky. one person tossing their supper and blaming you would cause huge problems. maybe if there's no trail to link you? but dang, i'm getting so jumpy on this sort of thing, i just dont' think i'd bother.

now, maybe if i raise it, on shares, then butcher, that might look different to 'the man?' dunno. like i raise a hog for someone, give it to them in packages, frozen, and i get in turn, say, hay or some other tangible item they have/i need. i think this sort of thing would be a huge trust situation. i dont' trust too many!!

and yeah, we do our own, i've not heard any of those slaughterhouse stories, but don't want to first hand, iykwim! but if someone wanted to share some on another thread, i'd read it!

Hi all. We have and do butchering for other people. In my husband's "past life" he ran a kill truck for about 15 years plus worked in the meat market cutting up whatever came in: pigs, sheep, cows, elk, deer, etc. He was also raised cutting meat since his father owned a meat market when he was young. Here's what works for us in our area: We charge $50 for the kill fee. This is really not a lot of money since a 700# hamburger cow is A LOT OF WORK when you consider skinning, gutting and disposing of the guts, plus breaking it and loading it onto the truck to bring to the cool room. I asked him why we can't charge more and his reply was that was the going rate for the "professional" kill to charge. I asked why so little for so much work. His reply was 1) they have a truck that handles the carcass (not as much physical work) and 2) they have a market for the hide and the guts, something that the local joe-butcher does not usually have.

We have access to a cold room and professional style meat cutting equipment which is needed for cutting large animals like beef. The smaller band saws can't handle something so large. We either charge money or we trade for meat, or both. The trades usually happen when there is a lot of meat such as the time we got paid in 150# of hamburger. If we supply the paper and do all the work, we charge .50 per pound hanging weight. If they supply the paper and help with the cutting and wrapping we charge them .40 per pound. It usually takes my hubby and I (alone) about 4 hours to cut up 400# or about 100# and hour, and we do whatever they want in cuts, steaks, roasts, hamburger, ribs, etc and package them according to how much in each package (let me repeat, this is WORK! We are exhasuted when we're done) We leave it up to the customer to set up the cold room time and schedule use of the cutting equipment and we charge them, or they pay directly, something for the use of the room and equipment. Then we totally clean and bleach the cutting room and equipment, which can take up to another hour or more.

We don't do this very often, but when we need a little extra cash, like for paying off our firewood, the skill comes in handy. I think we have done 5 people this year plus our own animals. Oh btw, sometimes we trade the kill fee for animal feed since one of our "customers" buys feed by the ton. In our area the nearest USDA butchering is a 5 hour drive away, and if you are going to sell the meat you must have it done there. There is a local butchering shop, but he has had the reputation of not being totally honest and so some of the generational locals don't trust him. People have asked us if we would ever do this professionally but because of the regulations, we won't do it. It is legal for private butchering here and we don't advertise, just word of mouth from like-minded people that we know well.

Hope this gives a few ideas.

Shep

Pretend situation.... 3 single women.... 3 separate homesteads. Each woman wants some SMALL LIVESTOCK.... I'm NOT talking cows and pigs. I'm talking rabbits, chickens, ducks, geese, etc.

Problem is.... there's NO WAY these women would be willing to do the "self butchering" themselves. So... let's say for example... there's an Ex deer hunter or Ex farmer (whatever) that no longer has the land, or money, or maybe it's a lack of physical abilities to take care of critters.

Sooooo..... the women make a deal with the guy. He does the butchering, and in exchange for his services, he gets to keep some for himself.

I'm NOT talking about "going into business" or anything like that.

Heck.... there are PLENTY of MALE CITY SLICKERS that would love to get into a Homesteading Lifestyle, but the "butchering" part stops them dead in their tracks. Not everybody is cut for the killing and blood/guts/gore of butchering.

I'm just trying to brainstorm alternative ideas. (again... in my neck of the woods there isn't any place to take rabbits, ducks, geese, or goats-they have to be privately butchered)

I'd do it but I would go to them. Most not only won't slaughter but they have no way of transporting. If you remove those 2 obstacles I think more would use the service. As far as how much to barter for that's a whatever the market will bear. The more services you offer, the easier you make it for people the more you can get. You make the birds disappear, and their innards and feathers, and then reappear in freezer paper you'll get more.

I'd take advantage of that in a heartbeat. You set the barter terms....I don't care. I just need it done.

When are you going to be in NW Ohio????:bouncy:

Around here people take their chickens, a large cooler and a few bags of ice to the Amish and pay $2 per bird. Drop off in the morning, pick up in the evening.

This is a place around here, too, that is state inspected and they only do poultry. It cost me $1.50 a bird the last time I had it done. That isn't bad, but I'd MUCH rather have it done at my house and be able to barter. I can raise extra chickens....

Are you looking for someone to do this or are you offering to do it yourself?

We process all of our small stock here at the farm. We're south of Sterling/Rock Falls, which could be 1-2 hours from you depending which part of the stateline area you are in.

I'm closer than you think....LOL actually I'm 2 miles from the Wisconsin line and pretty darn close to greencountypete (I think that was his handle).

Seriously.... I'm not looking to do this at all. I have plenty of friends that I've discussed 'homesteading' ideas with. The subject of Butchering is what stops them Dead in their Tracks (pun intended).

I'm getting my house ready for Sale, and will be relocating (out of state) once the house sells.

I will keep this thread bookmarked. Maybe I can convince my friends to give it a try.

EDIT: I would like to add... once I'm relocated to my future home, I'll probably be one of those single women needing somebody to do some butchering for me. LOL

I think you would have little trouble in many places finding a neighbor willing to butcher small livestock for free meat in exchange. I would do it, I have no qualms about killing and butchering small critters like chicken and rabbits, been doing that since I was a kid.. Just not much experience butchering goats or cows and such..

The deer processing facility in southern Missouri that I asked to process my goats said they could not legally do it.

Well drats. Was hoping you were going to offer to drive to Ohio.... LOL

Instead of being involved with something that will eventually possibly get someone in trouble with the law, maybe the solution is just to find a way to get over being so squeamish. I would suggest the fairly simple technique of desensitizing. Have someone lined up to let you watch them slaughter and butcher something small like rabbits or chickens. Then go on YouTube and search. You will find numerous videos on both slaughtering and butchering. I suggest starting with rabbits--they are cleaner and easier to dispatch. The first time or two it might trigger a little gag reflex response but you can always click stop or turn away. After you have watched the videos a few times it really will not seem so bad to you. After a while you will be ready to observe the real thing. After a time or two observing you will be able to jump in.

I think the hardest part for many people comes from making pets out of food. Yes bunnies are cute and chickies are entertaining, but you need to remember all along that they are food and possibly a key to your survival someday. Turkeys should have names like Thanksgiving and Christmas. Cows should be named Hamburger, Ribeye, T-Bone, etc. Pigs should have names like Bacon, Pork Chop, Hambone, and Sausage. And of course chickens should be named Stewie, Casserole, and Fricassee.

the irs frowns on bartering.....i know this from experience :grumble:

The way IRS looks at it is this:
I have a hog that I want to sell pork from @ $3 per pound. You butcher hogs for $100 each.

You come to my farm and kill/butcher my hog, and I give you 33 pounds of pork.

IRS figures you made $100 for butchering, and I made $100 from the sale of pork.

Since there's no exchange of money.... I'd just tell the IRS I butchered the dang things myself. LOL

samm, I'd be interested in knowing how the irs frowned on you for bartering!?!?!?

123T - Good on your head. I don't believe it is legal for the irs to tax us on bartering. If it was, will they tax us on dumpster diving & curbside finds?!?!? To give you an idea of how far we are from you, it was an hour drive when I worked in Freeport.

The heck with the IRS... here's how *I* view it.

YOU butchered my rabbits as a nice Christmas gift to me.

I gave you some rabbits as a nice Christmas present, in return.:sing:

It's that "in return" that will get the IRS involved. "Quid pro quo"

Ok...how's this?
Someone butchered my chickens for me as a christmas present.
Earlier that year, I gave them some chickens for their Thanksgiving dinner.

Egads. It's all silly. Like Cyndi said, where do they draw the line? Should I report the birthday cake that I made for my co-worker, since she did likewise for me on my birthday?

Which is why the IRS and state sales tax folks don't hear about it. One day they may get to the point of that...

Like the requirement in the health bill to 1099 any transaction with a value over $600... Glad that one seems to be getting repealed as it should...

A transaction is a transaction. Value received and given is taxable regardless of whether it was money or bartered goods/services.

When I lived in Colorado there was a guy that butchered chickens for you. It was really great. You took in boxes of live chickens and got back chickens in plastic bags. I can't remember how much he charged, around a dollar?

I have wished so many times that there was someone like that around here, but have had no luck stumbling across anyone. My Cornish Crosses all ended up dying of old age, and that is embarrassing, but that is what happened. I figured that at least they had a nice, if short life.

I would be really happy with your suggested deal OP, if that helps.

hollym

We have an Amish gentlemen with his wife and daughter. They charge $1 a piece (last time we went). But they insist on keeping the feet! Small sacrifcie I say. Drop off in the morning, coolers and ice, pick up in the afternoon. Wash, rinse, pat dry; vacuum pack. We're happy, they are happy with thier chicken feet (foot?) soup.

Ask around with your neighbors. There are bound to be non-squeamish farm wives who would be glad to pick up an extra few bucks for a few minutes work. Or her 4H/FFA son or daughter. Never underestimate 4H/FFA neighbors as eager to do odd jobs around the farm. Helps them, helps you.

If you were closer to this part of KY I'd just teach you and you'd have a new skill. It is work, no doubt about that, but much like putting canned food on the shelf watching the freezer fill is a nice feeling. Let your friends know that thinking about it won't get it done, it's the doin of it that makes it easier. Not my favorite chore by a long shot, but needs to be done. I'll be slaughtering a steer tomorrow. It'll be snowing and cold. Most likely will be doing it myself as help is scarce if it's not sunny and 75. This time tomorrow Buster the steer (got no qualms about naming him, no more than eating him) will be hanging in the shed and I'll be sipping Miller and Bushmill in front of the fireplace. hey, life is good and slaughter day is just part of it.

Just make sure you don't watch a rabbit slaughter video that goes like our experience in dressing out a nice New Zealand! We had it skinned, beheaded and were working on the gutting and it started twitching muscles! My friend (we share a lot of butchering chores on both our farm's animals) stated "I saw that movie!!" and didn't want to touch it again until it had quit LOL I don't think it would help someone get over their squeamishness (She is more ruthless about culling than I ever could be)

We share the job here, and we share the meat. I never thought of it as barter - we just all get together and do the job, and people take home portions. Some of us are ok with killing, others are ok at skinning. For instance, my DD does a great job of cleaning up the meat and packaging, but she doesn't want anything to do with it until it doesn't "have a face."
I am ok with killing, skinning, cutting and packaging, but don't see well enough to be certain I haven't missed a hair here or there. Friends come over and bring fowl to be butchered, as we have the chicken plucker. Then they come over when I could use help with a large animal - pigs, sheep, deer. We have the plucker, saws and grinder equipment, so we usually are the destination.
There are good butchers locally, even those that prepare fowl and rabbits, but the prices make it much more profitable to do the whole job at home, and right now I'd have to wait until February to get the pigs butchered, so guess what I, my DS, DD, and friends are doing the next 2 weekends?
Hopefully, once you get settled, you'll find neighbors who can help you get over the hump of getting your animals into the freezer. Meanwhile, I guess that's why butchers exist and how they survive!
Kit

Bottom line is that slaughtering/butchering is a necessary chore of homesteading. I do not 'enjoy' slaughter day, but then again, I do not enjoy laundry day either. If I am going to give the neighbor's wife/kid $100 to 'prep' my chickens, why don't I just throw in a couple bucks more and have them do my laundry also? "And while you're here, would you mind picking my tomatoes and hoeing some weeds? And would you mind putting that pile of firewood on the porch...some of it may need splitting first." To pay somebody to do a basic chore of homesteading is akin to saying "I'm not ready for homesteading, but would love to leave the city and have a nice Hobby-Farm."

EDIT: If you want to leave the city, please do so. But think of your first year as a "Hobby Farm". When your neighbor does 'prep' your chickens, stand there and watch her. You will both get over your squeamishness, AND learn how to do it 'country-wise'. It is not difficult once you see it done. Once you have spent a season eating real chicken, you will be ready for next season and the bounty that you can bring to the table every night.

You might want to review our Constitution about what is and isn't taxable.

hmmm, maybe the IRS might want to review our Constitution about what is and isn't taxable.

I understand the gist the post I think,

OP does not want to do this as in be the butcher but wants to know a fair deal
in said situation.

that is kinda tuff to answer. I would say first you have to assign value to both,dollars are pretty easy for folks to understand. you can even find out
going rates from existing sources, I will say though they will not translate as well to the homestead scene. things to consider are corporate purchasing power and sheer volume of sales, and in regard to the butcher they will be high to cover tax and overhead. once you do a little balancing you should be able to factor a realistic value.

so if a current rate for slaughtering a chicken (that is kill,eviscerate and pluck) lets say 2.00 and whole chicken is 2.00 a lb and your chickens avg 5lbs so every 4 chickens the operator gets 1 or 1 out of 5. he gets paid to do his to as the value is based on a finished product.

rabbits same thing except not sure what to value the meat at and they are just a tad more work. to me they are a lot like chicken but in the market they command a higher price point. so I would say somewhere between chicken and beef in value? maybe 2-4 dollars based on volume for the dirty business.

so on and so fourth. of course both parties need to agree on the proposed values and the scope of the work.


as far as the IRS they may be interested in taxing the barter I have with the chickens though I don't know how they will collect from them?

as far as a custom butcher, I'm not 100% sure on domestics but I checked with the state AG dept on deer this year and was told I did not have to be licensed to butcher if all I produced was primal cuts, the inspector did state I could not create a public risk so safe handling would be a expectation and he ceded to federal regs on chickens,which I believe under 3000 and I can do all sales at the gate. and I'm waiting on a few other questions as of yet. licensing becomes a issue when the meat is prepared in someway smoked or turned into sausage etc.

LOL. That happened to my daughter and me a couple of years ago. My Son In Law was doing the kills and we were skinning, gutting, packing. We had this one huge NZW - who was already beheaded, skinned and gutted - who twitched for about an hour. To say it was really creepy is a gross understatement.

We butcher pretty much all our meat, other than the steers (because they are too big for us to handle easily), and I think it is often a matter of developing a mindset that perceives that animal as food throughout it's life. Having said that - there was a time when I could not have eaten anything I had seen alive. It is possible that many of the people the OP is talking about would not want to eat Flopsie and Mopsie if they had cared for them for a few months.

Mary

Some friends of mine have chickens. They take them to the local Amish folks. Amish dress out the birds completely for $3.00/bird. I imagine they would do rabbits for about the same.

123Testing, I wish you good luck, but I don't know how successful you'll be at finding someone who is willing to do it, and wants to.

I learned how to butcher by doing my own butchering. Doing my own butchering kinda means that I already have meat animals to learn on. Why would I butcher 20 of your chickens to get 5, when all I have to do is butcher 5 of my own?

I'm always willing to help teach people how to do their own, but, quite frankly, I've got too much meat already. I haven't even hunted much this season, 'cause the GF and I already have more than we can eat.

Locally, there is a guy advertising on Craigslist, for butchering. He goes to your place, and charges a hind quarter for goats and hogs.

My suggestion for chickens and rabbits (if you haven't the stomach for it) is to contact local 4-H groups, and find a teenager to help either show you how, or who will do it for a share of the meat.

I detest butchering chickens, so stinky! Rabbits are much easier, lol

we are involved in an audit..since this summer, she asked how get our hay, we told her the truth....we cut on a percentage basis, we cut, rake, bale thier hay fields, and we get the larger percentage of the hay....she looked at us in the face and said that we frown on that practice.....was told that we should be paid to cut, rake and bale the fields, (thats taxable income for us), and then we would buy the hay from the guy that we cut, raked and baled for (taxable income for him)...in other words by bartering we are not paying taxes for these services/goods that could be taxed....it as all a crock to me, but thats what we were told....
samm

Just because they frown on bartering doesn't make it illegal, does it?

I hate it when the governement starts should-ing us.