120 Acres, what would you do?

Well, as a corn/soybean farmer, I guess I'd think what it is doing now has about the best potential. You sure do look down upon me & my ways, so lets look at other stuff.

U-pick deals often occupy 5 acres or so & take lots of people skills. What you going to do with the other 115 acres?

Aspargus & other 'different' crops need a market. You mention big cities 1 - 4 hours away, but - have you checked out your markets? Who's going to buy from you exactly?

Just to be funny, I'll say I can grow more giant ragweed weeds than anyone on my farm; but no one is buying, so that is a 'waste' crop for me - I have to go back to corn & soybeans. Hey, I can grow organic soybeans or specialty type soybeans - but the folks buying those are 23 miles away, while the coop that buys my 'regular' soybeans is 1 mile from my driveway. The coop stores the beans for me; the specialty buyer requires me to store the beans on my place in spendy bins, and will pay me for the beans when they want them; not when I need the money. So they might pay me $1 a bu more for those special beans, but if you work out all the costs to me, (I have!) it costs me an extra $1.50 a bu to grow & store them.... Not so good.

I'm just saying, you need to find a market, you need to find buyers first, and what they will pay, before you start in on such a big project. Planting, weed control, and harvest is easy - finding a market is the hard part.

(And a year or 2 into this, you'll find weed control & harvest isn't near as easy as you think.....)

You gotta have a market plan before you do anything else.

Pasture is fine. But a little secret - pasture is done on waste land that doesn't make good crop land.... You net less from pasture than you do from crops. So, if your land is poor, go for it. But, you will take a cut in pay. Typically pasture rents for under 50 cents a day per animal unit (think cow size of critter) and it would be rare to get more than 2 animal units per acre, more often 1/2 is how it works out. And of course you don't have much or any income during winter or a dry summer.....

Oh, you could raise some special critters, organic milk, or special wool that is rare, and make the pasture pay off bigger than what a 'regular' pasture does. But now you are into a real specialty market again, and trying to stay ahead of the inspectors & legal stuff with selling milk, or watching a nitche specialty fad crop of wool self-destruct just as you get your wool producing herd up to size.... It is a real risk/ reward deal, again the marketing is a real challenge.

So, you have many good ideas, many possibilities. I got no problems with that.

You are looking at _trememdous_ work, and typically 6-20 acres fills a persons time on such enterprizes, wow with 120....

And you need to find out what people are buying, where exactly your market is, before you start into a crop that takes 3 years to develop.

I'm reminded of the Christmas tree farmer that started out here, planted 1000 trees the first year. In 5 years, he sold - 120. Well, there is quite a big pine forest on his land, but it really didn't pencil out very well for him.

I say all this not to discourage you or put your ideas down.

You need a plan on what will sell, what is a stable market that you can depend on, and what you can hope to do labor wise. I don't see that in what you've said so far.

Me, here, I'd rent the 120 acres out for $200 an acre for corn/soybeans, and relax. You won't touch that kinda money for doing nothing with anything else.

Good luck with it, enjoy it, and happy planning.

--->Paul

Paul, I know I did come down hard on soybean, and I apologize if it came off as disrespect to corn/soy/wheat *farmers*, which I did not mean to do. I have a *lot* of respect for my farmer, he busts his behind like no one I know. Some years he does well, some years he does badly; in general I think he prospers. It's just not the life for me, for sure, and I don't like living in the middle of it.

If we got $200/acre I might feel different, though. Around here in the boondocks the going rate's more like $60 an acre. :-(

"You need a plan on what will sell, what is a stable market that you can depend on, and what you can hope to do labor wise. I don't see that in what you've said so far." For labor I can only work maybe 32 full hours per month myself. The rest I need to hire done. There's plenty of farm labor here, but they need supervision, which means I'd need to take time off to supervise if I needed acres and acres harvested or pruned. With that amount of time I can tend a relatively small amount of orchard or vineyard plantings. I need something for the bulk of the acreage that doesn't require lots of my hands-on attention. Pasture being grazed by someone else's animals could work, or hay.

I do have another child who's been WOOFing out west, and may move full time to the farm next fall. That would change the labor equation. That one likes to work :-)

I do hear you on the Christmas tree farmer. Whatever I settle on, I'll research markets and do a serious business plan before I proceed. Right now, daydreaming and brainstorming. I've gotten some really good suggestions here, which I do appreciate.

There’s not much new under the sun. The playing field has been leveled out by lots more people than us here and over a lot more years than any of us have.
It seems to run like this: The things you can do on 120 acres, that take the least risk and labor will bring you the least amount of return. The ventures that take the most money, labor, and of course risk, have the potential of giving the greatest returns.
At one time there was big money in Christmas trees. Despite the investment in preparation, planting spraying, annual trimming and 6 to 10 year wait, there was money in Christmas trees. As is always the case in farming (and most everything else) people flood into a profitable venture and flood the market.
This year people are profiting from corn and soybeans, but it hasn’t always been this rosy.
Vineyards are real popular here right now. Even areas that grow wonderful Cherries, are pulling the trees out and planting grapes. It takes a big investment, lots of care and who knows what the demand for wine will be in ten years. 120 acre vineyard would be a huge investment.
I don’t think you can cut hay for very long before you have to plow and replant. A soil test will tell you how many tons of lime and fertilizer would be needed and seed is pricy.
Figure out what you like to do, investigate the local market for that, get an expert to help figure costs of needed equipment and inputs. Then rent it to a neighbor crop farmer for about what the property taxes are and just be glad you have a 120 acre “people buffer”.

We're going on 8 yrs. on our hay field without plowing or any input beyond sheep manure.
Ease into it. You need to learn what goes best in your farm. Asparagus is cheap thanks to the Chinese. The profit may not be there. How about rhubarb?
The easiest farming is pasturing. You can raise hogs, cattle, goats, sheep and poultry on pasture with limited work. It's the fencing that's hard but once up, it's easy. Go easy on buying equipment. There's a lot of good used equipment that's cheap and usable. A lot of farmers suffer from heavy metal disease and have to have the biggest, most powerful tractor or combine.
Go slow but get going. You need to start making your mistakes.

__________________
Oak Harbor, Ohio

http://thelaubachermarriagechronicle.blogspot.com/

Wow. Sounds like easy farming to me. 'Here' you pay $20-30 an acre in property taxes, couldn't touch poor unproductive ground for $60 rent. I hear rumors of $305 an acre for nice retangular big fields, but went with a conservative $200 for my area.....

I'd think if you carve off 10 acres for your persuits, and rent out the remaining 100-110 acres to the farmer, you'd have the best of both worlds without being in over your head.

Specialty crops are typically small patches that require many hours of labor. As Haypoint says, there can be big payoffs, but there is also big risks - put in blunt terms, the big risks means no market; bad crop failure; etc. Where you put in all the money & labor, and got nothing in return.

10 acres of whatever you mention is doable, and limits your risk as you still will have income from the remaining 100+ acres. If you grow your business and need to double it in 5-10 years, well then you have experience & a path for expansion.

I'd not put all your eggs in one basket with a specialty crop, coming from zero experience with those.

Vinyards are popping up all over here in Minnesota too; It seems like a fad to me, I donno, can't see how it could continue to grow.

Is this land enrolled in the farm program? You could cost yourself a _bundle_ of money if you take it out of corn/soy/wheat, as the govt has rules about that. You might be responsible for refunding all the payments for the last 3-5 years if you break that contract..... Just something to be aware of, and pay attention to when the 5 year farm program cycle comes up again to enroll or not your acres. Need to visit with the county FSA office to learn more about this before you make changes if you are in the program. They actually put on a seminar on this in my state last year, as it is a real issue with the vinyards & Upick places popping up - newbies don't realize the rules their land is under. Just a heads up.

--->Paul

I agree that marketing is the make or break point in many operations.

That seems to be the biggest hurdle and one that many people overlook until they are knee deep in production.

I plan on taking a marketing class this winter. I should have done it when I was getting my aquaculture degree.

__________________
"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin

Just to make sure I understand your situation correctly, you currently live out there? You mentioned eventually owning the 120 acres around your homestead. How large is your homestead, and what type of work do you do now? I guess what I'm getting at is how much time are you on the property / can you spend on the property?

Time is the biggest limitation for me. I make my living in town. I want my land to support itself, but I doubt it will ever support me, at least until I am debt free. Since time is the limiting factor, I'm looking at things which will not take a great deal of time on a daily basis. For me, the answer is silvopasture - a combination of timber with cattle.

My goal is high quality timber sales every 5 years once I get the rotations set up (unfortunately if you're starting with no timber it will take 15 years before the first timber sales start) But the cattle will provide a steady revenue stream with hopefully not more than a small amount of time moving them from pasture to pasture each day. You can check out the Rotational Grazing thread for more information on low input cattle ranching. In your area, you could also grow pecans or walnuts which are pretty and work well in a silvopasture setting.

My homestead is 16 acres, of which 10 is currently farmed with my mother's surrounding 110 acres. Of the rest, my house/yard/garden/outbuildings/drive take up 2, and the rest is marsh and river. DD and her BF live at the farm full time, and I'm there on weekends, working full time in the city several hours away. I make more at my job than I would make from even a pretty successful ag business, so I'm going to keep working until retirement in 10 years. I can afford to invest reasonable amounts, approximately 10-15k per year, in the farm, including equipment, labor, plant stock, etc. I'd like to build a business that could eventually give me a nice supplemental retirement income, and provide a living on the farm for one of the kids when I kick off.

Silvopasture is a new concept to me. Because I'm not there daily, I don't think it will work for me, but I will look into it. And yes, pecans grow wonderfully here -- I have several ancient pecan trees that still produce.

Based on this thread, I'm leaning toward planting a tall/thick windbreak at the end of my 10 farmed acres when the current lease is up, and using that land to plant half-acre plots of a variety of high-investment, high-risk, high-return crops (aronia, persimmon, wolfberry, rosehip, elderberry, grapes, whatever) to see what is most enjoyable and profitable. Basically I would just extend the perimeter of my current homestead (house, garden, drive and lawn are about 2 acres), which makes sense in the permaculture concept I've been working. I can use my existing well to drip irrigate in that area, as well. Maybe I can convince DD to take care of some sheep to keep the orchard mowed (and look pretty, and be delicious).

The windbreak may block the drifts of herbicide and chicken poop, and give us a pretty eden run around in, and might actually be enough to cure my issues with the combine running a hundred feet from the house.

And then the rest of the farm stays farmed as before, and pays the taxes. And I don't have to manage the giant enterprise of pruning/harvesting/spraying 110 acres of anything.

eta: And I won't plant the whole 10 acres in one go, either! I'll plant the windbreak when the lease ends, but they can keep working much of the area inside as I expand outward.

If I were in your position I would devote my time and effort (at my convenience) to creating a Permaculture "Food Forest".

My focus would be on long term hardwoods, nut trees, and the like. This presumes that someday in the future lumber will be needed for fine furniture and the like. The by product of these trees is food in lots of ways. I would also devote some time, and space to food plants that produce more quickly.

I would be a lot more interested in gathering produce from the forest than plowing.

I need to do this, in the 20 acres of short pine thicket. I'm thinking of going in this spring (before the poison ivy and ticks warm up) and planting a bunch of nut tree seedlings among the pine, but I'm pretty fuzzy on how to plant in an existing pine thicket. The hardwoods are generally understory trees, so do I just dig and plant and trust some % of them to compete their way up, or do I need to chainsaw a clearing for them?

Ultimately it would be nice to have hardwoods and understory fruits out there -- native persimmon, aronia, dog rose, etc. And a coppice for fire wood.

Is this something the ag extension can advise me on?

eta: It's obvious I need to get smart on propagation, and set up a place where I can do a lot of it. I don't have a greenhouse right now. Have a nice brick south-facing wall with an electrical outlet, though, so I know just where to put it.

Ag extension would be a good place to start. You might also contact your state forestry dept.

__________________
"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin

Well, we have 120 acres and this is how we use it--
approx. 80 acres is in oak/walnut woods...it has been harvested once and we will be having the black walnut harvested in Dec. Provides us with firewood..also nut,mushrooms,blackberries and deer!

approx. 30 acres is in permanent pastures, fenced and crossed with 6 strands barbed wire. Have cattle now but did have sheep and this was excellent fencing except against coyotes!! We take hay off the front field; 53 big round bales this year which were sold except for 10 for our two cows. We have another couple of acres on the corner of property which we keep tilled. Has been in buckwheat for the bees. Don't know what we will be planting this spring

Another acre+ is in orchards with apple,peach,pear,plum,apricots. Grape vines and raspberry and strawberries are grown,too

Another acre is garden with some area out for 10x20' greenhouse. A barn and two solid corrals around it take up another acre or so along with the chicken house and a 20x40" pole bldg that is garage and honey house.

Many is the time we studied longer before locating our garage bldg and wish we'd planted the orchard down the south slope past the house. But it still all works for us and we try to use all the resources the farm offers us. DEE

Willowdale, .....

Are there fields that are fenced ? Critters need to be fenced.

What type and size outbuildings are available for you to use ? You would need a place to store/sort/keep harvest.

Does the farm have any equipment at the present time ? Most of the time, specialty equipment cost's are higher than the more normal type farming equipment.

__________________
Please Put Your Location In Your Profile ... TY

No fence. No tractor or heavy equipment. No barn, no facilities for animals or feed storage of any kind. I have electric, a good well, and a full size pickup.

Outbuildings: 40' shipping container and a 15x10 shop/shed now being built. My plan for the container is a climate controlled kitchen (wine, soap, canning) with a walk-in cooler. I've outgrown the house kitchen already with that stuff.

How about leaving most of it the way it is since it seems to be working now. Carve out about five to ten acres or so for your homestead and expand slowly? Put an acre or two into your specialty crops and see how they work in small trial fields. If they flourish, then plant more acreage of what works. Do small trials and go with what works and add more as you get more knowledge. It will take a couple of years to get a comfortable homestead and outbuildings built. If most of the acreage can support itself or even help finance the construction it would be a huge help.

Around here they don't pasture on shares.They pay the landowner an agreed amount per acre per month.

That sounds like an entirely reasonable plan to me. Only thing I might consider is keeping 20 acres to yourself instead of just 10.

BTW, what does "eta:" stand for? In my busines it means estimated time of arrival - as in "What is the eta for the trauma patient?"

In the state of Wa., if you are going to be cooking in a kitchen for public consumption, it has to meet certain requirements; mostly a total surface of stainless steel. 3 ss sinks, ss counters, ss pans, etc. ss blacksplashes.

The laws governing food prep. are a nightmare. Very few homes, [or incidential cooking areas like a container], will qualify.

This is a area that you need to CAREFULLY investigate, before you hitch your economic star onto this idea.

Food prep is highly regulated, please check your local & state regs. before you invest.

One kind of "farm" type business is custom processing of poultry. We had a local business that we drive to your place with a pull behind processing trailer and process your poultry.

The waste could be processed through composting and sold as a way of increasing the yield.

With the high failure rate of small restaurants sometimes you can buy stainless sinks and counter pretty cheap.

__________________
"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin

eta = edited to add, because HT shows that you've edited a post, but not what part. :-)