Copper Or Aluminum Wire?

rambler · #21 11/14/10, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiogacounty

This can create a few interesting headaches, but it certainly isn't impossible. The biggest issue is that you would need a box rated for 100 amps at the barn no matter how small and cheap it is, unless..... you derate the breaker at the supply end of the cable. For example by using a 30amp/ 2 pole. But, you have to see if you can actually get # 2 wire to fit the lugs of a smaller breaker. At the barn end you have the issue of trying to fit a 1-1/2" conduit into an undersized panel that logically would not have a concentric knockout for that sized pipe. Don't forget that when it's time to upgrade to the proper 100 amp panel, a lot of items now need to be replaced, including the breaker at the main panel. I don't think most folks see the value of standardization and product volume in things like electrical work. The sub-panel I cited in my post is an example. I bought a SQ-D 100 amp sub-panel with a 100 amp main and five additional breakers on sale for $49.95. A smaller panel, or an odd sized one can be twice that and come with no breakers. A 200 amp, three phase panel costs a few dollars more to produce than a standard residential one, but costs several hundred more at a supply house. I was doing the calculations on a job like this and discovered that the individual wires I need for a sixty amp panel were three times more expensive than buying 100 amp. 2-2-2-4 aluminum sub-panel cable. What I'm saying is that it's possible to spend more and get less if you stray from the common commodity items in this case.

I agree with you in general, very well said.

I am a cheap person, and folks on this site tend to be rather strapped for cash and - cheap. So, if we say spend another $100 on wire, and another $100 on a big panel and big supply breaker, the person will say I don't have $200 and will go ahead with the cheap, under-preforming setup.

If we can keep the costs to $100 or so, people tend to look things over for a $100 extra charge. And still fill that internal 'need' to be cheap by cutting corners on the box...

A professional electrician wired up my farm's backbone in 2008, 11 buildings service, for $11,000 all underground. I don't think I went cheap.

They did not disturb interior wiring if they could help it. In an unwired shed I had, they did what I mentioned - put in 100 amp wire to one of those little 2-space boxes. It did not appear to be any problem making things fit. I do understand the things you mention, but it worked out fine in this case.

You bring up good things tho, and I do agree with you.

--->Paul

**clovis** · #22 11/15/10, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

All the wire that I have seen is twisted. That would prevent pulling a single wire.

Cool...I worded my OP a little wrong. I didn't mean to say "just one wire" out of the strand. I meant to say "all the wires at one time".

I've still learned sumpin' new, so thank you!!!!!

**clovis** · #23 11/15/10, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rambler

I agree with you in general, very well said.

I am a cheap person, and folks on this site tend to be rather strapped for cash and - cheap. So, if we say spend another $100 on wire, and another $100 on a big panel and big supply breaker, the person will say I don't have $200 and will go ahead with the cheap, under-preforming setup.

If we can keep the costs to $100 or so, people tend to look things over for a $100 extra charge. And still fill that internal 'need' to be cheap by cutting corners on the box...

A professional electrician wired up my farm's backbone in 2008, 11 buildings service, for $11,000 all underground. I don't think I went cheap.

They did not disturb interior wiring if they could help it. In an unwired shed I had, they did what I mentioned - put in 100 amp wire to one of those little 2-space boxes. It did not appear to be any problem making things fit. I do understand the things you mention, but it worked out fine in this case.

You bring up good things tho, and I do agree with you.

--->Paul

I think this is where some creativity needs to come into play.

In the past, ebay and craigslist can be awesome sources for brand new supplies.

I sold an 100 amp breaker box on ebay, new in the box, and I think I only got $33 for it, plus actual shipping. IIRC, the same box was selling at Lowe's for about $100 or more. My numbers may be off a little; it was 3 or 4 years ago, and I've slept since then.

Now that I think about it, I've sold lots of brand new building supplies on ebay over the years.

The caveat is that you have to plan in advance, know what you specifically want, and find the right deal for you as a buyer. Most people I know aren't willing to do that, and pay much higher prices in the end.