Won't get land before SHTF...what to do?

Loquisimo · #21 11/13/10, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevada

Maybe so, but California certainly isn't an improvement over that.

At least in CA, you don't have to pay the local govt a $4k bribe BEFORE paying anything to the well driller. And the local govt doesn't use Google Earth to look for "unauthorized" construction (they do this in some parts of Oregon, which is why I didn't want to move to Grants Pass). I looked into buying land in Churchill County, and it was bribe city. Pay the govt for septic permits, then pay them to sign off. Pay them for a well. Pay them to put in a pad, pay them to inspect the pad (them and the state). Pay the govt to approve your mobile. And then there's the business fees. I pay a $165 fee to CA every year for my business. Nevada has a license and taxes, and additional licenses for each profession. You are expected to buy a LLC from the state too. It's insane. It's much easier to fly under the radar here.

Loquisimo · #22 11/13/10, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palani

Are you of the opinion that law comes from the state? If you are not the source of the law then what makes you believe others law is superior?

If law comes from the people, you have anarchism, which I'm pretty sure we don't have. Law is determined by the principles might makes right, and he who has the gold makes the rules. You can fight the guy with the biggest gun, but you are unlikely to agree with the outcome, which is likely to be quite painful for you. Humans are just hairless apes, ultimately, and the alpha males determine who gets to be in the tribe. (They also take all the women for themselves, but that's another story.) Thomas Jefferson realized that the software of the human brain still runs a very primitive operating system, although he didn't put it like that, and that any attempt at representative govt was likely to fail, because people cannot rule themselves, they are stupid and need to be governed.

Gottabenutz · #23 11/13/10, 10:16 PM

IMO VA isn't a good place to move! While I am sure there are some nice places left; there is a lot of development in the the state and that nice place won't be so nice ten years down the road. I'm ready to move out of state myself.

palani · #24 11/13/10, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loquisimo

If law comes from the people, you have anarchism, which I'm pretty sure we don't have. Law is determined by the principles might makes right, and he who has the gold makes the rules. You can fight the guy with the biggest gun, but you are unlikely to agree with the outcome, which is likely to be quite painful for you. Humans are just hairless apes, ultimately, and the alpha males determine who gets to be in the tribe. (They also take all the women for themselves, but that's another story.) Thomas Jefferson realized that the software of the human brain still runs a very primitive operating system, although he didn't put it like that, and that any attempt at representative govt was likely to fail, because people cannot rule themselves, they are stupid and need to be governed.

Who is talking about fighting anyone? Bible says to agree. It says nothing about working for nothing. In fact it does say a workman is worthy of his hire. That said when presented with an offer in a commercial society it only seems right that a counteroffer making it worth your while (essentially a form of agreement) would be in order.

As to land there is a principle called "adverse possession". Find a piece of property no one is occupying and become an adverse possessor.

Nevada · #25 11/13/10, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loquisimo

At least in CA, you don't have to pay the local govt a $4k bribe BEFORE paying anything to the well driller. And the local govt doesn't use Google Earth to look for "unauthorized" construction (they do this in some parts of Oregon, which is why I didn't want to move to Grants Pass). I looked into buying land in Churchill County, and it was bribe city. Pay the govt for septic permits, then pay them to sign off. Pay them for a well. Pay them to put in a pad, pay them to inspect the pad (them and the state). Pay the govt to approve your mobile. And then there's the business fees. I pay a $165 fee to CA every year for my business. Nevada has a license and taxes, and additional licenses for each profession. You are expected to buy a LLC from the state too. It's insane. It's much easier to fly under the radar here.

Interestingly, to this day the county thinks it's a vacant lot. I never took out a building permit while I owned it, and the new owners haven't so far. Taxes are around $35/year.

rhaige9 · #26 11/14/10, 01:26 AM

Eight acres behind me is for sale. All grass pasture right now. Couple stands of cottonwoods and other smaller trees. Ten water shares to the property for irrigation. We're on a well on our place, not city water. I've already run power poles almost to the property to put in my, and we've run the road all the way back to the eight to get the road to our place in. I think he was asking 80,000 for it, but I bet he would go ALOT lower. It's been sitting for a while. He did the loan for the neighbors fie acres. When we bought ours, basically he took an IOU for 50,000, we gave that 50 to the builder to start the house. He waited until we signed for the mortgage until he got paid for the land.

ChristieAcres · #27 11/14/10, 02:01 AM

If you have $ to put down, you can get probably negotiate seller financing. That can be done almost anywhere in the US, except for where it is illegal, of course. When we did that, here in WA State, we put $ down, secured seller financing, and had it recorded. We didn't want the Seller to use the property as collateral for a loan while we were making payments on it.

motdaugrnds · #28 11/14/10, 09:43 AM

I can understand where you're coming from Loquisimo; and I agree with much of it. (Kind of like "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" I heard a lot in my childhood.)

We started out in a condition that was much worse than what you have described yours to be. We managed to find 6 acres for $14,500 and this left us with only $1,000 to clear the land and construct some type of septic system and housing. The county inspectors watched everything we did; yet they did not charge for doing so. (If we ever get to construct a house, the Building Inspector's Office will charge us for a permit to build.)
However, where there's a will; there's a way.

If I were you I would "not" move into a mobile home park as I suspect you might soon regret doing so due to both limitations as to what you can do in your yard as well as what your neighbors (and their children) are like. (I cannot see any way to protect a growing garden in such a situation unless maybe you made it a "community" thing.)

viggie · #29 11/14/10, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilJohnson

Wisconsin is in the mid-west and it has plenty of surface water. I have to disagree on the diversity of agriculture. There are a lot of different types of veggies and fruits that can be and are grown here. However if you don't like cold and snow it probably isn't a good place for ya. I don't mind it but then again more than one person has given me the nickname Eskimo. Good luck with your search.

Agreed, there are also lakes everywhere. I am urban homesteading in Wisconsin and grew 53 varieties of fruits, vegetables, herbs, and edible flowers this season and have had great fun growing bananas, citrus, veggies, greens, and herbs indoors during winter. It's not the easiest place to homestead, but you can certainly preserve enough to make it through the year.

My hope is someday to move south when I can afford it though, probably georgia or south carolina. By then I hope to be in an IT job where I can telecommute. I *could* now, but I have a supervisor that likes seeing our sunshiney faces everyday.

Our Little Farm · #30 11/14/10, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loquisimo

I'd like it to be someplace where I can practice my trade (computer repair). I don't like the Midwest because it's too cold and snowy, and there's little surface water-it was once called "the western desert" in the early 1800s. I can't move too far away from where I am now. I also want to live in a place that has a diversity of agriculture, not just corn and soybeans. The west coast has that, it's just expensive.

As you are fairly flexible with your work, have you thought about a caretaking position? (http://www.caretaker.org/) http://caretakergazette.blogspot.com/

PhilJohnson · #31 11/14/10, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vigilant20

Agreed, there are also lakes everywhere. I am urban homesteading in Wisconsin and grew 53 varieties of fruits, vegetables, herbs, and edible flowers this season and have had great fun growing bananas, citrus, veggies, greens, and herbs indoors during winter. It's not the easiest place to homestead, but you can certainly preserve enough to make it through the year.

I think homesteading in Wisconsin is easier than say homesteading in some of the more arid areas out west.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vigilant20

My hope is someday to move south when I can afford it though, probably georgia or south carolina. By then I hope to be in an IT job where I can telecommute. I *could* now, but I have a supervisor that likes seeing our sunshiney faces everyday.

No way I could move to the South. I think I would melt. I went to Arizona to experience some "dry heat". Well heat is heat and when it's 107 degrees outside there is no amount of dryness that will make it feel like it's 80. I got heat stroke a few times while down there. I can't imagine living in an area where it gets that hot and is humid on top of it. Some folks can do it just fine and perhaps you are one of them

Wolf mom · #32 11/14/10, 10:34 AM

Remember - when you go into any type of community living - mobile home park, townhouse, and many housing developments, there's a lot of CC & R's (rules & regulations.) To the point of what you can/cannot plant where it's seen and also what animals you can/cannot keep. I mean to the point of dogs only under a certain weight!

Keep on doing what you are doing - looking and saving money. Maybe you have to shorten your "I want" and "don't want" lists. Weigh the pro's & con's. It'll happen. Be flexible. Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, and I'd re-look at areas of Nevada....

palani · #33 11/14/10, 10:40 AM

Then there is the guy who got a permit to cut firewood in a national forest. The Forest Service later complained when they discovered he had built a cabin in the woods. His reply: "You didn't specify that I couldn't stack the firewood any way I wanted."

Our Little Farm · #34 11/14/10, 10:41 AM

What about MO?

NostalgicGranny · #35 11/14/10, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilJohnson

No way I could move to the South. I think I would melt. I went to Arizona to experience some "dry heat". Well heat is heat and when it's 107 degrees outside there is no amount of dryness that will make it feel like it's 80. I got heat stroke a few times while down there. I can't imagine living in an area where it gets that hot and is humid on top of it. Some folks can do it just fine and perhaps you are one of them

You get used to it. My first few trips to Dallas (from So. Cal.) I spent underneath the window air conditioner. When we moved to South Carolina I walked through the gate to my new mobile home lot and dropped to my knees from the heat. Eventually you will manage to tolerate it better.

To answer your other question I've had vegetable gardens in both mobile home parks I lived in (Illinois & So. Carolina). Neither were authorized (as I discovered later) but allowed because they were well kept and creative. In fact in both places I won yard of the month despite breaking that tiny little rule.
Also another thing to consider is to use a little creative landscaping. When we lived in Louisiana we rented a house for a little while and it had built in planters around the front and side of the house. I planted two cayenne peppers by the front door, and green beans in the front. The sides I planted other veggies (squash maders, etc.) Then I made a circle in the front yard and planted my tomato's and used low growing strawberries to mulch. The important thing when planting on someone else's land is to keep it well maintained. I would never have planted something permanent on someone else's property.

Nevada · #36 11/14/10, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Our Little Farm

What about MO?

What, suggest that a Californian move to Missouri? You saw what happened when I suggested moving to Nevada.

That's the repeating problem with contributing to one of these "where can I find an affordable place to move" threads. More times than not, the original poster has already made up his mind where he wants to move and the kind of peoperty he will settle for. Any alternative suggestions will be met with argument.

If this were a true emergency situation I would recommend filing a 20-acre placer claim with the BLM, then move to the land with a travel trailer. I saw right off the bat that this was about maintaining a certain quality of life, not an emergency.

Our Little Farm · #37 11/14/10, 11:23 AM

MO has some land to be had at a reasonable price. Land contracts can be found. If you truly believe a SHTF situation is going to happen soon, then make the sacrifices needed and move to where you can be as self sufficient as possible.

Other states are cheaper than the ones you have mentioned too.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

willow_girl · #38 11/14/10, 11:25 AM

Quote:

We didn't want the Seller to use the property as collateral for a loan while we were making payments on it.

Hopefully you had that written into your contract, right?

The contract I hold allows me to use the property for collateral up to the amount of my interest in it. (I used a boilerplate contract.) I had expected the buyer to ask for that clause to be stricken, but he didn't. Oh well!

I wouldn't borrow against that house, though, unless I were desperate, as it might leave the buyer in a precarious position if something were to happen to me. I wouldn't want to do that do him.

As far as the OP's situation, it can be quite inexpensive to live in a trailer park. Check how property taxes are structured in your state -- in Michigan, trailer park residents paid a ridiculously low flat fee to the state (I think it was something like $28) in lieu of property taxes. Here in PA, the mobile homes are assessed on their value (not counting the rented lot) so taxes are quite a bit higher, although still lower than a corresponding house (or mobile) on owned land.

Remember that mobiles generally depreciate in value, so a brand-new one probably isn't a good investment, but if you buy an older home, treat it gently and make some improvements, it will probably retain its value or may even appreciate.

Oat Bucket Farm · #39 11/14/10, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevada

If this were a true emergency situation I would recommend filing a 20-acre placer claim with the BLM, then move to the land with a travel trailer.

You have caught my attention and my curiousity. Please elaborate on this for me.

luvrulz · #40 11/14/10, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loquisimo

Land prices keep dropping here. Just checked the Sacramento MLS and there are a number of cheap (under $25k) parcels of several acres north of Placerville. It's up in the hills, but not too far away from town. I'll have to check on wells, as some places up in the mountains have problems with groundwater being too deep, like several hundred feet. (That's a big problem east of Oroville, and it requires heavy duty pumps.)

Palani: California law no longer works like that, I believe. Nevada, sure, you can have land for the cost of paying a tax bill, but not here.

Nevada: I actually looked into Nevada for a while, but determined it wasn't feasible. Most counties force you to pay all sorts of fees-that's in lieu of having income taxes, no income tax means that the state has to support itself in other ways-to place a mobile on land. Well fees are several thousand dollars. Nevada also makes it difficult to maintain a small business-the tax code mainly helps the wealthy and the large number of low wage casino workers. Also, the soil in much of the state is too rocky to be of any use to grow anything, and where it isn't, such as the Lahontan Valley, not much will grow. Fallon farmers mainly grow alfalfa. Elko rancho land is pretty much useless.

If you were to check on the cost of living across the USA, you will find that California is undoubtedly the highest. There are more homeless people, more crime, more, more, more. It's full of fruits, flakes and nuts - that why everyone calls it the granola state.... LOL

It seems like the OP is bent on living in Calif, which is fine. Why didn't they just say that instead of sucking all of us into this debate..? The rules are different in California and people that live there are used to it... So be it. Have you checked into the county taxes and the state taxes and all that to own in your choice of county? And if you're buying a used MH, have you considered also that you are just buying someone else's headaches? Resale is zero and the cost to maintain it while you are living in it will be high??? The lot rent might also be something to look into - where my mother lived had an automatic COL increase annually - 10% for each year she lived there... There is alot to look at before you jump into a MH.....

Good luck -