Lawmakers support repeal of MO Proposition B

Again, I'm sure there are plenty of laws on the books concerning animal cruelty - I don't see how this bill is needed.

I do see that there is a problem sometimes with animals. My house is a cat magnet. I can't tell you how many I have found homes for - my daughter and I have been adopted by 5 and I now have, in my extra bedroom a mama and 3 young cats. The cats are wild as rabbits. They were outside kitties and while I am going to make barn kitties of them, up here, I do need to tame them somewhat. I told my husband yesterday, I think I could have tamed a grizzly in this length of time. If we weren't moving up here, I would simply have let them remain outside kitties and fed and cared for them, but they had become somewhat dependent on us and we just couldn't abandon them, but they might have been OK.

I do see the reasoning behind spaying and neutering, but again I am not for forcing anyone to do it.

When some breeder offers an animal for sale and demands the animal be neutered or spayed, I never feel they have any interest in controlling population - rather in eliminating competition.

One thing I do feel and it comes up anytime I've seen this discussed, there is almost an elitist attitude toward dogs that aren't pure bred. That bothers me. The argument is that since a dog costs so much, people will care for it - I'm just not sure that is true.

You know there are some people who could have 50 dogs and take very good care of them - breeders or not. Then there are some people who wouldn't/couldn't properly care for a hamster - or maybe pet rock.

The problem in this country is that we do not work to enforce the law against the irresponsible ones, we continue to pass more and more 'umbrella' laws that can be misused and abused, and that restricts others who are responsible.

I wish we would rethink the 'we need a law' reaction and think 'we need enforcement'.

Patt,

If you took a minute to do some research you would find there is a lot of info on the subject, I didn't make this up. How about you show me some actual studies (not unconfirmed numbers from the HSUS site) showing how much breeders contribute to pet over population and where the dogs in shelters come from?
Obviously you have your mind made up and no amount of information will change it. I'm just tyring to educate everyone else who is reading this.

Trixie,

The fact that someone pays a higher price or that a puppy is purebred is not the reason that these puppies are more likely to stay in a home.

The main reason that these puppies are more likely to stay in a home is because the family put more thought into choosing a compatible dog and is more likely to provide proper training and veterinary care. With a mixed breed or shelter puppy it is often hard to know how large and what that puppy is going to grow into. Purebreds have specific breed traits so for some people who want a certain type of dog they are a better choice simply because it is easier to predict what a purebred puppy will grow up to be.


This is also why most working dogs are purebred, they are bred for certain traits that make it more likely they will be successful at their job.

Somehow, I just don't see that- but could be true.

Certainly, there are some surprises as far as size goes, but it's not all that hard to look at a puppy and have a pretty good idea what size adult it will be.

If you are buying a specific breed for a specific reason, yes, but how many purchase dogs for that reason, as in working dogs, etc.

I'm thinking the reason there are more 'mutt's in shelters, is because there are just more 'mutts' than there are pure breds. As I said, ads I have seen for pure breds, quite often demand spay and neutering, thereby cutting down on the population of that breed - and the competition.

Just me, but there is an elitist attitude and that always bothers me. If the pure breed breeders could eliminate all 'mutt' breeders, soon everyone would have to purchase their pure breds - and since they demand you spay and neuter - everyone would have to come to them.

But that's just my hang up - and I don't know if I have ever owned a purebred animal since mine have always been just animals that chose me or by some wonderful happening, someone gave them to me.

I think mixed breed dogs are here to stay. We have both purebred dogs and mixed breeds dogs and love them all. Lately we seem to have more a problem with cats finding us than dogs, another one was dropped off a few days ago. At least the one last week came already spayed! I don't know who would pay to spay a cat and then dump it within a few weeks.

It's pretty silly to think that this bill had anything at all to do with puppy mills. Puppy mills are not inspected. This law applies to inspected dog breeders. Putting good, inspected breeders will put them out of business and will increase the market for puppy mill breeders.

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Moms don't look at things like normal people.
-----DD

There is already "black market" breeding going on. If limiting breeders cuts down on the millions of dogs and cats in shelters then great. I still hope it goes into effect. We have a surplus of dogs and cats in shelters and people on here, including yourself, are defending breeders. PETA and HSUS are sooo evil but the average joe breeder is worth defending because he is adding to the pet population. Again, money wins over every time.

So did you read the quotes Haven posted in this thread and in the other thread that was locked down? The quotes from the president/ceo and the manager of HSUS who wrote this bill and used misleading campaign ads to pass this bill.


Yes they want to end all use of animals and yes it is ridiculous.

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eat more kale

The biggest problem with some of the people reading/posting about this is they just DO NOT understand "prop b", it is totally wrong and not needed it as some others have said is the back door to control of AMERICAN farmers. CONTROL of FOOD. WAKE UP what happened Nov 2,2010? The people are tired of a few trying to control their lifes.
Glenn

That IS the gist of it, Glen. This bill IS a back door to controling American farmers and controling the food.

I can honestly say after posting those quotes, I have never had ONE supporter of the HSUS or PETA even acknowledge the quotes. It is the (eyes closed,, fingers in ears) "lalalalala I can't hear you" defense. However, Lyra was kind enough to call me a few names including a hoarder and a slob because I believe in crate training. I will be sure to pass those compliments on to my cleaning lady.

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"For if you start dancing on tables, fanning yourself, feeling sleepy when you pick up a book... making love whenever you feel like it, then you know. The south has got you.”

That's a problem with the breeder. Only a dumb person breeds unhealthy dogs.

???

Again, a problem with the breeder.

Again, a problem with the breeder.

All of the things you've just described can happen quite as well with a 3 dog hobby breeder as a "puppy mill".

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

I especially like the instance where, on "Vote Yes On B"'s website, it said the horrors of puppy mills were well documented in so-and-so's fiction novel such-and-such.

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

Oh you conspiracy therorist, you!! Here, I'll join you.

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Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Nubians & Lamanchas
www.ozarkjewels.net

"Remember, no man is a failure, who has friends" -Clarence

I voted against B because:
1. Too open ended, leaving room for too many "additions"/"clarifications"
2. did not offer funding for enforcement
3. used known inflamatory phrases in the advertising
4. major supporters were well known AR groups
5. USDA is already in place to inspect dog breeders, but unfortunately, needs funding for the RIGHT number of inspectors

And this is Missouri, duh!...of COURSE there were more votes than voters! Many votes were cast by zombies!

Mon

BIG sigh and BIG HUGS to you and your family, Emily!

I can give you statistics from all the shelters who voluntarily reported their numbers but they don't collect info on where the dog originally came from, ie: breeder, or what have you. Nobody collects those stats. And honestly it would be almost impossible to do so because just because the person who drops it at the shelter had it given to them as a gift does not mean it didn't come from a breeder originally. And you can't ask all the dogs rounded up off the streets either. So there would be no real way to collect the information and anyone who says they have has to be fudging.

I agree that they can happen with any breeder regardless of kennel size. But puppy millers are far less likely to care. Have you ever seen the dogs removed from one of those big operations? The health issues are astounding and they are bred until they drop.

Did you know that not ONE dog was taken from a licensed kennel in Missouri this year? So at least in our state the dogs you are talking about are not coming from the licensed kennels. And Prop B doesn't apply to anyone else so what is your argument? How is Prop B going to help?

Actually eliminating breeders will make the gene pool smaller and increase the chance of purebred dogs having more health problems, even for ethical breeders.

The point has been missed completely. The basis of this thread is that the voters were snookered on an issue, so the lawmakers are in favor of overturning the issue. Now honestly, is that the form of government you really want? If the lawmakers could make laws over the wishes of the people this wouldn't be America anymore. Therefore, what the lawmakers might want isn't relevant at this point. The voters have spoken.

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