Mad Cow Disease Arrives

To reinforce what Jena said, the vCJD in England has never conclusively been proven to be caused by beef from cows with MCD. It has not been conclusively proven MCD came from scrapie-infected sheep made into M&BM. All they really know about it is it is not a bacteria or virus, but rather a new critter called prions. Prions are close to indestructable. There are no known cures for prion-related health problems.

In the UK no one ever proved anything. All the "experts" had an opinion and still do. One of the victims was a young woman who was a lifelong vegetarian. Then we all found out just how much beef we had been eating. Gelatin made from cattle is in everything.At that point most of us gave up worrying. We are told the infection risk was at its worst years ago. If this is true then all of us who are going to have it already do have it.Beef prices dropped so low a few years ago that all calves on a local dairy farm were shot at birth. There was so sale at all for them.
A lot of farmers and smallholders fed recycled animals to their stock. All the feed labels gave was the % protein content. I probably did it myself. I know it never occured to me to ask if there were dead animals in the mix.

wr: I think I need to clarify myself a bit.

There are many people like me who are truly disgusted by the products of Tyson and similar large corporate farms. Talk about buggy yeelchy meat and chicken. :no:

Someone raising a large number of cattle, however, isn't necessarily someone engaging in the truly disgusting practices of some of these corporate farms. I've smelled Tysons (excuse me while I puke!) - I see their product in the store (blegh) - and I stopped buying it several years ago, after several consecutive purchases quite literally caused me to gag.

In other words, some of those large producers are churning out some pretty crappy product. :no: :no:

There are an awful lot of people like me who would love to see more of the product of *independent* (might be a better way to put it) producers readily available, and much less of the product of Tyson and similar corps.

So that's my point. And I myself am watching this whole thing unfold and keeping everything crossed that's exactly what happens.

I think the consuming public was far better off in the days when product was consumed much closer to the producer. I believe this to be particularly true in the beef industry.

There are very few packing plants in operation in this country compared to say thirty years ago. A few companies (Tyson Foods and Con-Agra are two of the largest) dominate the processing and marketing of beef. In New Mexico, where
I live (and we raise a lot of cattle), there are no "establishments" (what the USDA calls a meat packing/processing operation) left. We used to have a number in this state. One of the reasons the smaller operations folded was their
inability to afford compliance with USDA inspection requirements.

With all the e-coli outbreaks happening, the government came up with something new; "Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point" or HACCP procedures.
HACCP has been progressively applied to smaller and smaller operations. Yet we still have problems resulting in people getting sick or worse and tons of product having to be recalled over huge geographic areas.

Back when we had "local" packing houses and processors, one never heard of
major problems. They just couldn't occur because of the relatively small scale of things. Plus, just maybe, your "friends and neighbors" working in your local
establishment might have been a little more conscientious. If you buy a package of ground meat at Wal-Mart, not telling how many cows and what parts thereof (and who knows what else) contributed to the contents of that package!

For the producer, marketing opportunites are also diminished. I can see where
a livestock auction could be attended by two buyers, who ate breakfast together the morning of the auction and also decided what they were going to pay today.

So whether it's e-coli, mad-cow, or something else, it's really scary when you consider how fast and how far a problem can spread.


Bob

Bob W in NM, exactly.

I have no stock, relatives, or pecuniary interest in Tyson. Having said that, the Tyson products I've purchased at stores (mostly poultry) have always been fresh, wholesome and appetizing, so long as I wasn't picking out of the expires-today bin (what my Dad calls the used meat section).

__________________
Mark in West Central Ohio

______________________________

When I go the Super Market the first thing I do is go the reduced meat section and get the best buys first.
I buy Beef, Pork, Chicken, etc.
All of the reduced out of date meats that they have to my taste,
if it is cheap enough.

Or it has to be on sale. I do not like to pay full price.

I have done this since 1980 and never had a problem, or have I got sick.

People don't take care of the meat after they buy it,
and that is the biggest problem.
You have to eat it the meat that same day,
or freeze it as soon as you get it home.

If it was not for the big producer of different kinds of meat you would not have enough meat to go around, nor would you be able to afford to buy it either.
Prices would be sky high, and supply would be very low.

Well, the Tyson products in this part of the country are pretty darned gross. And THEY'RE RIGHT HERE! They stink, too. Nasty places.

And what the heck are they doing to their chickens - even the shape is weird. :no:

Mad cow is at the bottom of my list of worries - but what kind of nasties are in Tyson et al's meat, now there's the real question. :no: :no:

If a person lives close to a water treating plant or a chemical plant, or a pulp mill it stinks also.

So are the shapes of the foods that are in my mouth after I have chewed on them two or three times, but I don't spit them out. I swallow them.

Why are you worried about how they look, they might taste good but you will never know if you don't try them.

Hamburger is in an odd form also. I have seen a whole beef butchered and have never seen a round circle of ground up meat in the whole beef.
But almost all of the hamburgers I have ate are round except Wendy's,
and they are square.

My wife makes my pancakes round. But sometimes she will make one in the shape of a heart (to say I Love You) and they all taste the same.

I have been to some peoples house for dinner and it looked pretty bad to me , but it tasted good, and I did not die from eating it either.

Why don't you buy some of them and have it analyzed by a chemist and see what they are made of.
Who knows you may find out that you have been eating the same thing all the time in another form, only it was put out by another company,
in a different form.

Not all crackers look alike. Some are flat, some are round, and some look like little animals but they all tasted good.

Bumpus: When a food purchase literally makes you gag, there is something very very wrong.

When consecutive purchaes of food items from the same company make you gag - cause your body to react with literal physical revulsion - there is something very, very, very, very wrong.

When the stench of facilities make you gag - when the kindest word the inhabitants of an area have for those facilities is nasty , there is something wrong.

There's a field full of cattle across from me. They don't stink. Their barn is just a little further down. It doesn't stink. I like the cows and enjoy having them here.

And there are chickens everywhere around here. Their poop might stink, but their areas don't knock you flat.

The Tyson facilities, however, are gross, and the smells emanating from them are wretched and sour and rotten and physically repulsive.

Which speaks to me of very, very poor management. But hey! Eat it up! We'll send it all your way.

Bob_W_in_NM
Registered User

Joined: Sep 2003
Location: New Mexico
I think the consuming public was far better off in the days when product was consumed much closer to the producer. I believe this to be particularly true in the beef industry.

There are very few packing plants in operation in this country compared to say thirty years ago. A few companies (Tyson Foods and Con-Agra are two of the largest) dominate the processing and marketing of beef. In New Mexico, where
I live (and we raise a lot of cattle), there are no "establishments" (what the USDA calls a meat packing/processing operation) left. We used to have a number in this state. One of the reasons the smaller operations folded was their
inability to afford compliance with USDA inspection requirements.

With all the e-coli outbreaks happening, the government came up with something new; "Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point" or HACCP procedures.
HACCP has been progressively applied to smaller and smaller operations. Yet we still have problems resulting in people getting sick or worse and tons of product having to be recalled over huge geographic areas.

Back when we had "local" packing houses and processors, one never heard of
major problems. They just couldn't occur because of the relatively small scale of things. Plus, just maybe, your "friends and neighbors" working in your local
establishment might have been a little more conscientious. If you buy a package of ground meat at Wal-Mart, not telling how many cows and what parts thereof (and who knows what else) contributed to the contents of that package!

For the producer, marketing opportunites are also diminished. I can see where
a livestock auction could be attended by two buyers, who ate breakfast together the morning of the auction and also decided what they were going to pay today.

So whether it's e-coli, mad-cow, or something else, it's really scary when you consider how fast and how far a problem can spread.


Bob

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countrygrrrl
Registered User

Joined: Aug 2003
Bob W in NM, exactly.


Y'all need to remember that centralized, distant, massive processing operations are the RESULT of Federal regulations. Such companies as Conagra, Tyson, and Wal-mart came into being because of the Federal support (sometimes unconscious) of companies of this form. So, don't demonize the companies, attack the root cause.

BTW, prions will survive in "compost" for decades.

Those of you who are cattle producers have my sympathy. We had relatives in the dairy business until a few years ago. We understand what you go through. We had just been talking about how the beef industry was looking up finally! And now this.....

I do agree that as a consumer, I would like to be able to buy beef that I knew for a fact had never been fed any animal by-products; only grass and grains as nature intended. This could open up a marketing opportunity for producers of this kind of beef, if only they can find a way to all work together to do it.

I hope this situation passes quickly and that no other positive cattle are found.
As can be seen on some of the threads here, the media is already causing panic in average Americans who have no idea how the livestock industry works.

__________________
[COLOR="Blue"]Expect Little - That way you will be seldom disappointed.../COLOR]

You can bet you are going to see loads of "Grass Fed Beef" and similar ads, but are you really going to believe them?? And the people that have grass fed their beef are going to suffer to as they won't be believed. It is a sad situation all around.

Carol K

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Midhill Dexters
http://www.midhilldexters.com/

Anyone who makes a claim about their beef, or any other thing, ought to be able to prove up. The USDA requires that people who label their stuff as "anti-biotic free" etc must provide documentation to back that up. I'm not sure how you document not having something though...

I do not feed my cattle animal proteins and I can document that. I have records of what I have grown or bought for feed and if one did the math, they would see that what I have bought is what it took to feed them.

Most people who make claims of "grass-fed" or whatever (mine are corn fed) also welcome visitors. I know I would. If you go to see someone's grass fed beef operation and there's no pastures...you have a clue!

Jena

Problem is with a 'grass-fed' marketing approach, most consumer will only buy the product once. Why? They will say it just doesn't taste good to them. The reason is they have become accustomed to the artifically-induced inter-musclar fat from feedlot feeding which is high in feed value and the animals get almost no exercise. They are use to fast-cooking, whether on the stove or on the grill.

If you are going for the 'grass-fed' approach, you are going to have to reeducate your buyers you cannot cook lean (grass-fed) beef like it was U.S. Prime (feedlotted). It has to be cooked longer at a lower temperature. Think roasts and stews. Hamburger from 'grass-fed' is going to be a problem as it really does need that fat in it to cook and taste right. If you take excess fat from another carcass, you have basically contaminated your product.

Perhaps a 'grass-fed, grain-only finished' product might have better consumer acceptance.

Even 'grass-fed' many not be able to be referred to as organic if the pasture are even sprayed once with a herbicide or pesticide.

Jena: Would silage be acceptable in a 'grass-fed' program since technically it isn't a grass? Forage-finished?

Ken S. in WC TN

And, oh, by the way:

When I was in Croatia in 2000, I was taken for a tour of a 5,000 head capacity feedlot. They were feeding out about 90% intact bulls in indoor pens. For feed they received nothing but their own whole stalk silage put up as haylage more than silage as the stalks were allowed to brown off some before harvesting, spent brewery malt and a bit of salt. Mix might have some hay in it from that harvested off of odd-corners of the operation. In most of Europe only a licensed vet. can give injections. The pens had slotted floors to where urine went through right away and any manure was pressed through. It was then moved from the collection pits under the buildings to one of three outdoor lagoons. A crust had formed on the lagoons and there was absolutely no manure or livestock odor anywhere on the place except at the bit where they watered down the manure to get it to flow to the lagoons properly. Actually the place looked more like a warehouse than feedlot. The only time the cattle made any noise was when being fed and even then it was more along the lines of what is taking you so long to get to my feedbunk.

Ken S. in WC TN

I just started purchasing "grass fed" beef last year. My producer answered my question as to what it tasted like with "some people say it tastes wild and others say it is the best they have ever tasted." I am with the second lot! It is great, although the fat is a different color. The hamburger is great too, more fat then I would buy in the store, but I pour it off and it tastes great. I have found nothing so far that tastes bad, just different. I have also gotten it at two different times of the year. I went for local grass fed, when I got tired of buying hamburger form SD in my local grocery store. Also it is very hard to find any meat including pork chops that don't have a "solution" in it to tenderize it. I disagree that grass fed is less tender. My b-i-l said that all meat he dealt with while butchering at Weis Market was chemically tenderized. My grass fed is left to hang as we do with our deer to tenderize it. I am no expert, but will eat grass fed forever if possible. With the price of beef this year it was a real bargain also. Hearing what stuff feedlot cattle are fed is enough to make me a vegetarian.

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Cindy in PA

That's almost exactly what my father-in-law said. Now he's talking about selling off some of his land to hunters.


Amazing how quickly things can change...

Hasn't anyone heard the theory that mad cow is caused by environmental factors? Check out http://www.markpurdey.com/the_bse_theory.htm
Sounds sensible to me and at least as likely as the popular theory.

Also see if your local library can get you a copy of "Deadly Feasts: The Prion Controversy and the Public's Health" by Richard Rhodes.

I am inclined to agree there is a trigger agent involved.

Ken S. in WC TN