$900 dandelions - sell your weeds!

Everything which you claim has been studied and discussed for many years. Many of those advocating certain planting methods report on what they observe without knowing exactly why. Something works for them and therefore that must apply everywhere. That is now how it works. Claiming that dandelions help other plants simply because another plant is growing well beside it does not mean that one is helping the other. It's just that both have different requirements and thus able to coexist. Dandelions are able to virtually overun a lawn because of their ability to penetrate much deeper to find water. Lawns without dandelions are able to withstand drought better than one with dandelions. Lawns treated just to kill dandelions will become greener and lusher due to the grass being able to use the nutrients being released as the dead roots break down. Other than that, dandelions serve no other beneficial benefits to any other plants.

Martin

I'm just gonna hold your words up to the words of Atthowe and Holzer. And .... yeah ... I'm gonna stick wtih Atthowe and Holzer. Atthowe has the numbers and both have the results that must just look like magic to you.

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Well, as long as you've figured out how to become outrageously rich growing dandelions, I do hope that you quit your day job tomorrow and jump right into it. We'll watch for your name on the Forbes billionaire list in a few years.

Martin

I don't believe that is an accurate statement. Bacteria invade the legume roots, forming a symbiotic relationship which allow Nitrogen fixing nodules(swellings) to develop. While the legume is growing, there is not any great amount of "leakage" from the nodules to the outside--in fact, much of the time during the legume growth, a great percentage gets used solely by the plant. Other times, when excess nodule storage of N is induced, it stays inside the nodule until plant death--only a few nodules drop off and decay(release N) during active plant growth. It is the residiul, if any is left, N in the nodules and the N compounds in the plant matter after the plant dies which nitrify and deposit N into the soil--and the plant matter must be incorporated back into the soil. That grasses or other non-legumes seem to benefit companion planting with clover is a factor of the clover stolons dying off in the center of the legume and decaying.

Ref: http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_a/a-129.pdf

http://www.maf.govt.nz/sff/about-pro...evelopment.pdf

Statistical mathematics requires that observational studies to prove a hypothesis true must have over 1400 observations to make up a study sample that is acceptable . One person giving one anecdotal reference/opinion on 1400 UTube viewings is not the same.

geo

Those are tilled soils. Tilled soils have immature mycelium, if any. The mycelium is the key.

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Mycelium? I thought this thread was about dandelions, not mushrooms!

Martin

I just checked - I mentioned the mycelium before. The mycelium in the soil is important.

Dandelions don't require a mycelium for growth. In fact, some types of mycelium are allelopathic to plant growth.

Martin

I like dandelions. They make an awesome syrup. I also believe in some companion planting, or maybe it would be considered more of a rotation planting. I always plant corn in the spot I planted beans the year before. Seems like the corn does better that way. Of course, could be because we put more of the chicken manure in that area.

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Now look at you squirm! You are starting to see my point because you are now grasping for straws!

It is true that dandelions don't require mycelium for growth. But we're talking dandelions helping other plants grow. Dandelions are nutrient accumulators with a tap root. Most of the nutrient exchange happens through the mycelium.

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No, the nutrient exchange between dandelions and other plants are when the dandelion dies and bacteria releases the nutrients. Mycelium consumes the nutrients for its own use. That why mushroom compost is called spent compost because there are no more nutrients left when the mycelium has finished with it.

Martin

I can go on and on and you can keep evading the reasoning.

This will make things much simpler: martin, you are free to wait until your own sources confirm what I am saying. And if they never confirm what I am saying, then it sounds like you will be forever certain that it is not possible. And that is totally fine with me.

In the meantime, the guy in the video, who runs a successful market garden and teaches several dozen workshops every year, with thousands of people eating up his massive knowledge ... this guy is saying that this is real. Thousands of other people are saying it is real. I have seen all sorts of white papers on the topic.

I guess that the videos I make are for those that think "hey, this is cool" - and, it would seem, that these videos are not for you.

Further, I think it is fair that if you see something that is stinky that you stand up and say "hey! don't buy into this guy's baloney!" - but in this case, you are stating that your position is absolute fact, when you know you don't know. Just because you are not aware of the means of a living dandelion to pass nutrients to a raspberry does not mean that it isn't so. Your current information set does not explain it - but your current information also doesn't deny it - except maybe in tilled conditions, which is not the case here.

This guy is something of a celebrity. The video has been out for a little more than a day and already has over 3000 views - so many views that youtube has moved it to the following stages:

#145 - Most Viewed (Today)) - Science & Technology - Germany
#30 - Most Viewed (Today)) - Science & Technology - Australia
#11 - Most Viewed (Today)) - Science & Technology - Canada
#55 - Most Viewed (Today)) - Science & Technology - United Kingdom
#46 - Most Viewed (Today)) - Science & Technology - Ireland
#28 - Most Viewed (Today)) - Science & Technology - New Zealand
#27 - Most Viewed (Today)) - Science & Technology
#40 - Most Viewed (Today)) - Science & Technology - South Africa
#167 - Most Viewed (Today)) - Science & Technology - South Korea
#104 - Most Viewed (Today)) - Science & Technology - Netherlands
#187 - Most Viewed (Today)) - Science & Technology - Czech Republic
#90 - Most Viewed (Today)) - Science & Technology - Sweden
#23 - Top Favorited (Today)) - Science & Technology
#44 - Top Rated (Today)) - Science & Technology

So we're not just talking about some nut. This guy is a respected authority on this stuff.

There are true facts in what the guy states but not all which has been claimed. Dandelions do not use fungus to transfer nutrients to other plants as you are stating. Legumes is where you went wrong if you are going to now claim mycelium. Mycelium have nothing to do with production of nitrogen by legumes. That is done strictly by bacteria. And the only way that a dandelion is going to transfer nutrients is via bacterial action and that is when the dandelion is dead and the bacteria feed on it. It's bacteria consuming dying vegetation in my tumbler right now and working so hard that they are killing themselves in the 150ºF heat. There are even a few dandelion roots in there which are giving up their nutrients but they didn't do it willingly. There's no arguing that dandelions are not proficient in obtaining and storing nutrients. The same thing can be said for almost any other perennial plant which has a long taproot. But you're not going to find many of those willing to surrender those nutrients without a fight.

As already stated, thousands of views on U-Tube does not lend any official or scientific credence to anything no matter if it's 100% true or 100% BS. Facts are all that's important and thus far they have been scarce.

Martin

And it goes on and on and on .....

I never said that mycelium has anything to do with production of nitrogen in leguemes. Is your argument so weak that you have to make up stuff, imply that I said it, and bash that?

I have more stuff to pick apart in what you just said, but I now get the impression that you are going to keep on ignoring what I say and keep coming up with nutty stuff for me to refute.

Sorry Martin, as far as I'm concerned, you seriously lost this one. You do your ag your way, and I'll do ag my way. And, it looks like me doing my ag my way is gonna bug you. I support your right to get wiggy over the way I choose to do my ag.

I'm off to edit more videos! Prepare to be annoyed even more!

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I'll leave that up to the readers of this thread to determine what was and what was not said unless you've gone back and edited things out.

Martin

You said "Mycelium have nothing to do with production of nitrogen by legumes."

Please show me the post where I said anything like that.

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Let's see now. Without going back to review every reply, I'll go by memory. Your initial claim was that dandelions gave off their nutrients. I claimed they did not and that I didn't know any which did. You claimed legumes do that and a figure of 60% was proferred. That was disputed, not by me, but another replier. You then claimed that it was mycelium, or lack thereof, that was responsible but you did not expressly state what it was responsible for. When confronted with the fact that mycelium has nothing to do with it, you claimed that it had been mentioned. If you had not muddled the thread content by switching from dandelions to legumes, then there could have been a constant train of thought and discussion. Instead, it became fractured when legumes were included. And I didn't do that!

Martin

So ... I'm not sure I follow you exactly, but I think you just said that you are, indeed, making stuff up and implying that I said it.

If I am wrong, well, I didn't write that many posts, go ahead and find the post where I said anything about mycelium having "to do with production of nitrogen by legumes."

I think we are looking at a classic straw man here.

It's hard enough to stand behind things that I actually said, but to demand that I defend stuff that you make up - well, I think that means that you are just that desperate.

Just to be clear: living dandelions exude nutrients that end up in the raspberry. And, in the presence of mature mycelium (granted, the right kind of mycelium - which is actually quite common in richer soils), this effect is enhanced by approximately an order of magnitude.

At this point, I think there are two things that would be good:

1) apologize for your straw man, and

2) you have to admit that while you are unconvinced of my position, it is possible.

(I'm betting that you'll do neither)

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Go to sleep, sober up, and you'll think clearer in the morning!

Martin

Sober? Now are you attempting to suggest that I'm drunk? Dude, you are desperate.

Well, at least I won the bet.

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